Good for you, OP. When I was making a similar decision, I spoke to the principal/heads of both schools as well to get real information about the curriculum and differential practices. (The DCPS schools info was MUCH more detailed a d robust fwiw). I wonder if a lot of the difference in classroom manager comes from the fact that DCPS teachers all have masters in ED -- classroom management/behavior issues is something they specifically learn about. As I'm sure you know, MV teachers don't have those degrees, and often have a Bachelor's in a non-ed field, so they have never learned about that stuff.

OP here. I’ve probably spoken to half a dozen parents at both schools (MV and BM) in the last few weeks. I’ve heard of academic gaps at MV, lack of challenging academics without a lot of parental leg work at BM, classroom management issues at MV, but nothing about behavior issues at BM. And I ask these questions explicitly. BM has used responsive classroom successfully for years, and teachers there say it works well. That’s good enough feedback for me.

How do you know that? Do you have first hand experience at that school or are you assuming because of demographics?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I suggest you go to BM OP and leave the MV spot to a family who is really interested in the school and committed to it.

Unfortunately that’s not how it works and charters are full of half committed families that are there for lack of better options.

Seriously. They may start committed, but reality has a way of creeping in.

It’s easy to be committed when it’s all sunshine and roses in ECE. Then you realize your supposedly great school has serious weaknesses but you’re trapped unless you want to give up a middle school feed or move. So people deal with a crazy amount because of sunk cost bias. At least OP seems to be going in with her eyes open.

THIS. +100. MV is similar to most of these “HRCS” in that as the kids get older, behavior and social emotional issues become more challenging, translating into significant classroom (and learning) disruption. Its relatively easy for these schools to adhere closely to their mission (and dare I say) marketing messaging in K or 1st grade. But by 3rd,4rth grade the wheels start to come off and teacher turnover sky rockets.

Bruce Monroe also has issues its own issues after 2nd grade due to achievement gaps and behavioral issues.

OP here. That’s right. Having been to a million open houses pre-pandemic and seeing kids at all of these schools, it’s clear that different schools have different bells and whistles, but aside from Montessori, they’re all about the same and complex missions and teaching approaches get in the way of solid instruction and comprehensive curricula once you get past teaching the basics. We know many kids in older grades, so have been able to track what they have been learning (and not learning) over the years. If you genuinely have an “any school will be fine for my child” attitude, then you need bells and whistles to distinguish one from the other. But inexperience and turnover among teachers is a non-starter for us. Many charters treat their teachers VERY poorly, and that is not an environment I want my child learning in. Or supporting by enrolling. I hope the families that take these seats are happy for years to come, but I also urge them to look past the marketing and think about why the test scores and teacher retention rates are what they are. Somewhere like MV may be better than your local DCPS, but don’t assume it is just because the waitlist is longer.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I suggest you go to BM OP and leave the MV spot to a family who is really interested in the school and committed to it.

Unfortunately that’s not how it works and charters are full of half committed families that are there for lack of better options.

Seriously. They may start committed, but reality has a way of creeping in.

It’s easy to be committed when it’s all sunshine and roses in ECE. Then you realize your supposedly great school has serious weaknesses but you’re trapped unless you want to give up a middle school feed or move. So people deal with a crazy amount because of sunk cost bias. At least OP seems to be going in with her eyes open.

THIS. +100. MV is similar to most of these “HRCS” in that as the kids get older, behavior and social emotional issues become more challenging, translating into significant classroom (and learning) disruption. Its relatively easy for these schools to adhere closely to their mission (and dare I say) marketing messaging in K or 1st grade. But by 3rd,4rth grade the wheels start to come off and teacher turnover sky rockets.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We left the upper elementary right before the pandemic (so I can't speak to anything since then). Classroom management was one big concern. The teacher basically admitted she was totally overwhelmed with the behavioral issues and divergent levels. we got really frustrated with the teacher turn over. Our kid (smart but a bit of trouble when bored) was absolutely unchallenged. I just didn't want to stick around and let me kid think they are bad because the school wasn't able to challenge them, and I didn't want to wait and see if it was true what I'd heard, that the MV kids at DCI were behind their piers from other schools. We had a good experience in lower elementary though, and maybe for a different kid the fit would have been better. Good luck.

Thank you for sharing, PP. Where did you go? Did the school seem unwilling to meet your child's needs regarding being challenged, or was what they offered just insufficient? Was there a cohort of kids that were similarly unchallenged in the class?

My child seems similar, so a lot of our debate regarding schools is anticipating these exact issues. I don't think DCPS is universally better, but I do think our DCPS (BM) has more experienced teachers, more established curriculum, and better ability/willingness to differentiate. Whether that translates into a better experience for DC is what I'm less clear on.

This is the part that is really personal. Will your child have a cohort of at least a few academic peers? How comfortable are you being a racial minority? We are at an EOTP DCPS school that many people left, but my children have really thrived academically and they are close to their friends. And by upper elementary you are left with a very cool cohort, bc it is people who have actively decided to stay and are comfortable.

That sounds great, and like a better fit for us than a charter like MV. If we're going to have to compromise in some areas on schools, I'd rather be part of a neighborhood school with like minded peers and teachers with years of experience in that school. Really love the idea of a self-selecting cohort who stick it out. Appreciate the thoughts, PP.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I suggest you go to BM OP and leave the MV spot to a family who is really interested in the school and committed to it.

Unfortunately that’s not how it works and charters are full of half committed families that are there for lack of better options.

Seriously. They may start committed, but reality has a way of creeping in.

It’s easy to be committed when it’s all sunshine and roses in ECE. Then you realize your supposedly great school has serious weaknesses but you’re trapped unless you want to give up a middle school feed or move. So people deal with a crazy amount because of sunk cost bias. At least OP seems to be going in with her eyes open.

True, but in most cases it’s not like you had a ton of options to begin with.

By the time you catch on, you may have even less options because it's very hard to change to a different language with an older child.