Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Seriously, what makes a luxury car worth twice the price of a well equipped Honda Civic or CRV. I’ve test driven the Lexus Rx350 and the BMW 540 and just don’t see what makes them over twice the price.

I'm assuming you can't also tell the difference between a $500 sofa from Walmart and a $2000 sofa from Ethan Allen.
I'm surprised you couldn't tell the difference between a Honda Civic and a BMW 540.
Here are the differences:
The BMW has a more powerful engine. This translates into a more pleasant ride. It's fun to drive.
The BMW has more comfortable a luxurious seats.
The BMW interior has better material and finishes. It is luxurious and has a better build quality.
The BMW has heated seats, heated steering wheel, cool seats etc...
The BMW has dual zone climate control.
The BMW has a better sound system.
The BMW has automatic self parking
The BMW has a semi autonomous driving feature (traffic jam feature).
The BMW has a better infotainment system and more tech features.
etc..
etc..


I could keep going.

Honestly, there isn't much difference between those 2 sofas. You need to spend much more than 2K to get a better quality sofa.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Heated and cooling seats, cushy interior, heated steering wheel, premium sounds, great pickup, quite ride ect.

My odyssey has all of that!

But to op’s point- service is better, ride smoother and the inside is more luxurious

Toyota's are far smoother than most BMWs. Any time you have a car with a sporty suspension the ride is by definition not smooth

Sadly, the majority of BMWs are no longer sporty, and you will need to specify the sport package to get that firmer ride with the bigger wheels and crappy run flats. Otherwise the smaller wheel packages come with the softer suspensions for when you need to waft around town.

My family has one luxury car and two non-luxury cars (Honda and Toyota). The Audi is more "fun" to drive and a better experience for sure - it handles better, quieter, all that others have said. That said, while its a better driving experience, I don't care enough about that for it to matter and my next car will be another toyota/honda. I'd rather do something else with the money.

That said, if money were no object...sure, I'd get another luxury car. Why not? But it's not something I'll miss if we don't have it. All just in where your priorities are I think.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Seriously, what makes a luxury car worth twice the price of a well equipped Honda Civic or CRV. I’ve test driven the Lexus Rx350 and the BMW 540 and just don’t see what makes them over twice the price.

I'm assuming you can't also tell the difference between a $500 sofa from Walmart and a $2000 sofa from Ethan Allen.
I'm surprised you couldn't tell the difference between a Honda Civic and a BMW 540.
Here are the differences:
The BMW has a more powerful engine. This translates into a more pleasant ride. It's fun to drive.
The BMW has more comfortable a luxurious seats.
The BMW interior has better material and finishes. It is luxurious and has a better build quality.
The BMW has heated seats, heated steering wheel, cool seats etc...
The BMW has dual zone climate control.
The BMW has a better sound system.
The BMW has automatic self parking
The BMW has a semi autonomous driving feature (traffic jam feature).
The BMW has a better infotainment system and more tech features.
etc..
etc..


I could keep going.

bump Civic to Accord or change it to a Toyota or American SUV and a lot of the points stop being true. Anything having to do with automation isn't particularly good on a BMW. The only real difference is the fit and finish of the interior and even there some non-luxury brands are catching up- compare the kia Telluride at the top trim to a BMW X5 and you won't find much difference

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Heated and cooling seats, cushy interior, heated steering wheel, premium sounds, great pickup, quite ride ect.

My odyssey has all of that!

But to op’s point- service is better, ride smoother and the inside is more luxurious

Toyota's are far smoother than most BMWs. Any time you have a car with a sporty suspension the ride is by definition not smooth

Anonymous wrote:

I'm assuming you can't also tell the difference between a $500 sofa from Walmart and a $2000 sofa from Ethan Allen.
I'm surprised you couldn't tell the difference between a Honda Civic and a BMW 540.
Here are the differences:
The BMW has a more powerful engine. This translates into a more pleasant ride. It's fun to drive.
The BMW has more comfortable a luxurious seats.
The BMW interior has better material and finishes. It is luxurious and has a better build quality.
The BMW has heated seats, heated steering wheel, cool seats etc...
The BMW has dual zone climate control.
The BMW has a better sound system.
The BMW has automatic self parking
The BMW has a semi autonomous driving feature (traffic jam feature).
The BMW has a better infotainment system and more tech features.
etc..
etc..


I could keep going.

You forgot to mention the close personal relationship you will have with your mechanic.

Is that from experience? All cars have maintenance, you just don’t want to defer the ones on the German ones.

Anonymous wrote:You can't just lump all luxury cars together. A mercedes, bmw, or audi (on average - not all models) are going to handle better than a toyota, honda or ford. They have better engines, brakes, and more extensive options that make them not only more comfortable but also safer (again, not always but on average).

OP you sound like my parents. They literally do not understand the difference between my mom's Toyota Sienna and my wife's Audi SQ5. If I drive my mom's van like my wife's SUV, the thing just about flips over around every turn or slides off the road. The same is true of my dad's Honda accord, which isn't even an SUV. I have to be really careful watching my speed around curves in those cars to avoid literally killing myself and the passengers. A couple of close calls I have had to slam on brakes which on our Audi and Porsche would have safely and predictably brought the cars to a halt. On my parents honda and toyota I have experienced not only SKIDDING down the road on the crappy tires and brakes, but nearly losing control of steering because they are just so badly made.

In addition, when I have rented standard Ford and Toyota cars, I find that they become unwieldy at high speeds. A couple of times their steering wheels begin vibrating at speeds over 75mph. They're just not well engineered or intended to be pushed hard.

So, on top of the interiors feeling way nicer and the cars generally being faster and more exciting, there are significantly poorer quality of engineering and technology in non-luxury cars that make for bad driving and dangerous situations. People who have only owned these crappy cars don't understand this because they think it's normal to have to brake 50 feet earlier, watch your speed around a normal curve, etc. It's not normal - it's just because your car sucks

You realize you just wrote multiple paragraphs about how you drive like an a-hole, right? I have never nearly flipped a car or slid off the road and the number of times I have had to slam on the brakes is incredibly small and has never resulted in skidding down the road and nearly losing control. This is not how you should be driving on roads that you share with other people, no matter what car you are driving.

I'm assuming you can't also tell the difference between a $500 sofa from Walmart and a $2000 sofa from Ethan Allen.
I'm surprised you couldn't tell the difference between a Honda Civic and a BMW 540.
Here are the differences:
The BMW has a more powerful engine. This translates into a more pleasant ride. It's fun to drive.
The BMW has more comfortable a luxurious seats.
The BMW interior has better material and finishes. It is luxurious and has a better build quality.
The BMW has heated seats, heated steering wheel, cool seats etc...
The BMW has dual zone climate control.
The BMW has a better sound system.
The BMW has automatic self parking
The BMW has a semi autonomous driving feature (traffic jam feature).
The BMW has a better infotainment system and more tech features.
etc..
etc..


I could keep going.

You forgot to mention the close personal relationship you will have with your mechanic.

Anonymous wrote:Seriously, what makes a luxury car worth twice the price of a well equipped Honda Civic or CRV. I’ve test driven the Lexus Rx350 and the BMW 540 and just don’t see what makes them over twice the price.

Then you don't need a luxury car. You answered your own question, OP!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You can't just lump all luxury cars together. A mercedes, bmw, or audi (on average - not all models) are going to handle better than a toyota, honda or ford. They have better engines, brakes, and more extensive options that make them not only more comfortable but also safer (again, not always but on average).

OP you sound like my parents. They literally do not understand the difference between my mom's Toyota Sienna and my wife's Audi SQ5. If I drive my mom's van like my wife's SUV, the thing just about flips over around every turn or slides off the road. The same is true of my dad's Honda accord, which isn't even an SUV. I have to be really careful watching my speed around curves in those cars to avoid literally killing myself and the passengers. A couple of close calls I have had to slam on brakes which on our Audi and Porsche would have safely and predictably brought the cars to a halt. On my parents honda and toyota I have experienced not only SKIDDING down the road on the crappy tires and brakes, but nearly losing control of steering because they are just so badly made.

In addition, when I have rented standard Ford and Toyota cars, I find that they become unwieldy at high speeds. A couple of times their steering wheels begin vibrating at speeds over 75mph. They're just not well engineered or intended to be pushed hard.

So, on top of the interiors feeling way nicer and the cars generally being faster and more exciting, there are significantly poorer quality of engineering and technology in non-luxury cars that make for bad driving and dangerous situations. People who have only owned these crappy cars don't understand this because they think it's normal to have to brake 50 feet earlier, watch your speed around a normal curve, etc. It's not normal - it's just because your car sucks

I would just add that if you spent your whole life driving a Toyota Camry or a Honda Oddyssey, you likely will never notice the difference if you test drive a BMW or Audi. Why? Because you will drive it like you always have and like your crummy car required you to - no more than 70mph, no more than 25mph around exit ramps, braking 300ft before the car in front of you, etc. etc. It's like asking, "what so good about the expensive bikes they use at tour de france" and then buying one to go joyriding on your cul-de-sac and concluding, "Wow, this is barely different from my Huffy."

To add to all of the above, alot of the luxury German manufacturers have engineered the entire chassis, suspension, brakes, engine to all work together in a refined manner. They won't be things you can see and touch, but can feel while driving. The actual "luxury" options such as heated seats, external cameras, keyless entry, blind spot monitoring etc. can be found in many ordinary vehicles such as Hyundais, Toyotas, Hondas. However, the way the car drives and handles, the quality of materials, the sound deadening, engine refinement, seating position are all meant to enhance the driving experience. When you put your foot to the floor in your 4 cylinder Honda/Toyota, you will hear and feel the engine, transmission, and chassis straining to keep up with that input and wondering when you will stop. Its been engineered to take you from point A to point B, but not engineered for your enjoyment. BWMs have hired PHDs specifically to just focus on the ergonomic seating positions of their seats so that the driver does not feel as fatigued or sore after a long drive.

It doesn't mean that everyone will notice or appreciate that experience and that is ok. We all have things we appreciate that has some "artisanal" value whether its a nice handbag, shoes, coffee, meal, or hotel etc.

Anonymous wrote:I've owned a lot of cars. Mustang, Rabbit GTI, Chevy Blazer (the big one), Blazer (small one) Tahoe, BMW 3 Series, Mercedes 300 series, Mercedes E420, Range Rover, BMW 745il, Jeep Wrangler Unlimited, BMW 3X, Lexus GX460. By far the best cars I've had were the BMWs. The IL was a dream to drive.

I have the Lexus now, which I do love and supposedly is the most maintenance free car, but I don't love the slight play in the wheel that you don't have in a BMW. The smaller Lexuses might not have that play. I've never driven one of those.

My least favorite were the Mercedes or Range Rover.

I had an ‘82 K-5 Blazer.

Gawd do I miss that truck. What a beast.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The only thing I truly care about would be a quieter, smoother ride. The heated seats are nice, but really nothing else.

Do luxury cars truly have a quieter ride? This is something I have been hoping for and can't find. I have a 2018 top of the line Odyssey and everything still feel SO LOUD- the road noise and the noise from the vents, etc.

I am getting read to buy a new car, and wanted a crossover/SUV. Was looking at Toyota, but if a luxury finally gets me quiet, I may do it...

I have an Odyssey, too. Hondas are great cars, but they have a reputation for no having the best sound dampening (vs., say, Toyota). When it's time to replace the tires, get Michelins, and talk to the tech about getting the quietest ones possible (they might call them "touring"). I know from experience that this makes an enormous difference.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You can't just lump all luxury cars together. A mercedes, bmw, or audi (on average - not all models) are going to handle better than a toyota, honda or ford. They have better engines, brakes, and more extensive options that make them not only more comfortable but also safer (again, not always but on average).

OP you sound like my parents. They literally do not understand the difference between my mom's Toyota Sienna and my wife's Audi SQ5. If I drive my mom's van like my wife's SUV, the thing just about flips over around every turn or slides off the road. The same is true of my dad's Honda accord, which isn't even an SUV. I have to be really careful watching my speed around curves in those cars to avoid literally killing myself and the passengers. A couple of close calls I have had to slam on brakes which on our Audi and Porsche would have safely and predictably brought the cars to a halt. On my parents honda and toyota I have experienced not only SKIDDING down the road on the crappy tires and brakes, but nearly losing control of steering because they are just so badly made.

In addition, when I have rented standard Ford and Toyota cars, I find that they become unwieldy at high speeds. A couple of times their steering wheels begin vibrating at speeds over 75mph. They're just not well engineered or intended to be pushed hard.

So, on top of the interiors feeling way nicer and the cars generally being faster and more exciting, there are significantly poorer quality of engineering and technology in non-luxury cars that make for bad driving and dangerous situations. People who have only owned these crappy cars don't understand this because they think it's normal to have to brake 50 feet earlier, watch your speed around a normal curve, etc. It's not normal - it's just because your car sucks

I would just add that if you spent your whole life driving a Toyota Camry or a Honda Oddyssey, you likely will never notice the difference if you test drive a BMW or Audi. Why? Because you will drive it like you always have and like your crummy car required you to - no more than 70mph, no more than 25mph around exit ramps, braking 300ft before the car in front of you, etc. etc. It's like asking, "what so good about the expensive bikes they use at tour de france" and then buying one to go joyriding on your cul-de-sac and concluding, "Wow, this is barely different from my Huffy."

While I generally agree with you about many things, I think you're somewhat missing the point, too. I'm on my third BMW (including an X7) and have put 100k+ miles on a pair of Toyotas (including a Sienna) and, pre-COVID, drove rental cars for work once or twice a month. I think the luxury cars are better engineered for on-road driving performance. My BMWs could accelerate harder (although the V8 in my 4Runner was a powerful engine), brake faster, and handle better than non-luxury cars. But if you aren't pushing the envelope on driving, you may not really miss that performance all that much. And I've put a lot of miles on Toyotas without doing much more than regularly scheduled maintenance and replacing the consumables (brakes, tires, etc). They're engineered to run as many miles as possible without breaking and to be relatively cheap to fix when they do. Meanwhile, one of my leased BMWs experienced a serious transmission problem less than 5000 miles in (covered by warranty and anecdotal, obviously). I wouldn't count on my X7 to go 100k miles without any major repairs like my Toyotas did. Some other items, like ride comfort, can be a function of your tires and tire pressure as anything the car is doing.

The fit and finish on the luxury cars is better. The surfaces are softer - more leather and wood than plastic, knobs and buttons that feel nice, seats with nicer leather that are more supportive. The features game is a mixed bag. You get a lot of stuff in a $45,000 minivan, but those features may not be what you want in a car if you aren't hauling lots of kids.

What's significant, I think, is figuring out which features are most important to you and finding cars that have those features without a bunch of ones you don't want. I've discovered that I hate steering assist (when a car re-directs you into your lane if it thinks you are drifting) because I'm usually trying to drive near the edge of a lane on purpose. I love ventilated seats but don't care about a heated steering wheel. I don't use any automatic parking features. I don't open sun/moon roofs but love rear window shades. I frequently use wireless charging for my phone. And, most important, I drive with just my right hand with my elbow resting on something much of the time. If that right armrest is in the wrong place, I'll never be comfortable in the car.

For my next car, I'm going back to a non-luxury car. I've decided the price difference isn't worth it for me. But I can certainly see why it may be for others.

Anonymous wrote:You can't just lump all luxury cars together. A mercedes, bmw, or audi (on average - not all models) are going to handle better than a toyota, honda or ford. They have better engines, brakes, and more extensive options that make them not only more comfortable but also safer (again, not always but on average).

OP you sound like my parents. They literally do not understand the difference between my mom's Toyota Sienna and my wife's Audi SQ5. If I drive my mom's van like my wife's SUV, the thing just about flips over around every turn or slides off the road. The same is true of my dad's Honda accord, which isn't even an SUV. I have to be really careful watching my speed around curves in those cars to avoid literally killing myself and the passengers. A couple of close calls I have had to slam on brakes which on our Audi and Porsche would have safely and predictably brought the cars to a halt. On my parents honda and toyota I have experienced not only SKIDDING down the road on the crappy tires and brakes, but nearly losing control of steering because they are just so badly made.

In addition, when I have rented standard Ford and Toyota cars, I find that they become unwieldy at high speeds. A couple of times their steering wheels begin vibrating at speeds over 75mph. They're just not well engineered or intended to be pushed hard.

So, on top of the interiors feeling way nicer and the cars generally being faster and more exciting, there are significantly poorer quality of engineering and technology in non-luxury cars that make for bad driving and dangerous situations. People who have only owned these crappy cars don't understand this because they think it's normal to have to brake 50 feet earlier, watch your speed around a normal curve, etc. It's not normal - it's just because your car sucks

I would just add that if you spent your whole life driving a Toyota Camry or a Honda Oddyssey, you likely will never notice the difference if you test drive a BMW or Audi. Why? Because you will drive it like you always have and like your crummy car required you to - no more than 70mph, no more than 25mph around exit ramps, braking 300ft before the car in front of you, etc. etc. It's like asking, "what so good about the expensive bikes they use at tour de france" and then buying one to go joyriding on your cul-de-sac and concluding, "Wow, this is barely different from my Huffy."

You can't just lump all luxury cars together. A mercedes, bmw, or audi (on average - not all models) are going to handle better than a toyota, honda or ford. They have better engines, brakes, and more extensive options that make them not only more comfortable but also safer (again, not always but on average).

OP you sound like my parents. They literally do not understand the difference between my mom's Toyota Sienna and my wife's Audi SQ5. If I drive my mom's van like my wife's SUV, the thing just about flips over around every turn or slides off the road. The same is true of my dad's Honda accord, which isn't even an SUV. I have to be really careful watching my speed around curves in those cars to avoid literally killing myself and the passengers. A couple of close calls I have had to slam on brakes which on our Audi and Porsche would have safely and predictably brought the cars to a halt. On my parents honda and toyota I have experienced not only SKIDDING down the road on the crappy tires and brakes, but nearly losing control of steering because they are just so badly made.

In addition, when I have rented standard Ford and Toyota cars, I find that they become unwieldy at high speeds. A couple of times their steering wheels begin vibrating at speeds over 75mph. They're just not well engineered or intended to be pushed hard.

So, on top of the interiors feeling way nicer and the cars generally being faster and more exciting, there are significantly poorer quality of engineering and technology in non-luxury cars that make for bad driving and dangerous situations. People who have only owned these crappy cars don't understand this because they think it's normal to have to brake 50 feet earlier, watch your speed around a normal curve, etc. It's not normal - it's just because your car sucks