Anonymous
Post 07/06/2021 21:09     Subject: Racist relative wants to see my kids
Tell one of your kids to drop a log in the pool, the consider it even.
Anonymous
Post 07/06/2021 20:54     Subject: Racist relative wants to see my kids
OP, does Aunt Becky even know that you know what she did 20 years ago? If not, she may have changed and you just don’t know. I would have your husband pick up the phone and call her. Explain that he knows what she did many years ago and isn’t sure he wants his family around her if that’s how she still feels. Gives her an opportunity to apologize then. If she gets all defensive, then you don’t go.

There was a really interesting article a while back about a black guy who spent a lot of time with a KKK member. The racist eventually rebuked his old beliefs but never would have done so without relationships and real dialogue. I’m not saying you should hang out with a KKK member but for me it was just a reminder that dialogue matters.
Anonymous
Post 07/06/2021 20:38     Subject: Racist relative wants to see my kids
Anonymous wrote:I wouldn't. Your kids are not going to miss not having a relationship with this "Aunt Becky." It's one thing if it is someone your DH is close to, then I may try for his sake, but it doesn't sound like he cares either way. So this is all for your MIL? I just don't see the point...

+1
I agree with this. "Aunt Becky" has let 20 years go by without any effort on her part to make amends, try to connect with you, etc. Likely never going to happen. Go with your gut here, which seems to be saying, "Eeeek! I can't trust this person and am consumed with anxiety just thinking about my kids and I being around her!!" Do what you have to do to back out of this plan. I lean towards those posters saying to make it clear to MIL why you are not going. But if you're not feeling confident in that direct approach, a white lie excuse using health/safety/other plans is understandable. Don't put yourself through this. Your children are not missing out on anything and surely they have other opportunities for visits with friends/relatives/at a pool that don't involve someone who has been blatantly racist towards you (and never apologized/made amends). If she had made an effort to apologize, learn grow, that would be a different story and you sound like the kind of sensitive (in a good way) and thoughtful person who would be willing to accept an apology like that and move on. But in the meantime, the ball is in Aunt Becky's court. You don't need to initiate anything, be in her presence, allow her to enjoy spending time with your children... Just do what's right for YOU.
Anonymous
Post 07/06/2021 19:31     Subject: Racist relative wants to see my kids
I wouldn't. Your kids are not going to miss not having a relationship with this "Aunt Becky." It's one thing if it is someone your DH is close to, then I may try for his sake, but it doesn't sound like he cares either way. So this is all for your MIL? I just don't see the point...
Anonymous
Post 07/06/2021 19:25     Subject: Racist relative wants to see my kids
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:This is OP. I suppose I'm torn between the "hard nopes" and the posters who wrote re: "conciliation/education". I do believe Aunt Becky wants to see the kids and it was her idea -- although I have no idea if she is holds racist views or has reformed in her older age. I recognize this is a petty feeling and probably below me, but I also want for some "consequences" to fall upon Aunt Becky (i.e., you were racist to me, so the price to pay for that is you cannot have a relationship with my family).


I would wonder why Aunt Becky wants to see the kids. Are they a curiosity to her? Does she want to say something mean to them? It doesn’t sit well with me that she wants to see them. I wouldn’t let the kids go and I would tell MIL.

FWIW, I was in a situation similar to yours 20 years ago and I do allow my kids to visit with the person. DH is well aware of entire situation and has my back. He takes them and this person has been good to my kids. Your MIL doesn’t know what Aunt Becky did, so if Aunt Becky started getting nasty, MIL may not know to take the kids away or may not believe them if Becky says something mean when MIL isn’t around.


Oh come on, I doubt Aunt Becky has any kind of devious plan here. It sounds like she is trying to make nice which is good. Better to mend relationship than be enemies. But I can understand OP wanting to be there herself to make sure everything kosher. I might make excuse I like to be there for safety at new pool. If you just decline, could be taken badly
Anonymous
Post 07/06/2021 19:23     Subject: Racist relative wants to see my kids
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:As someone who grew up in the south, I had multiple incredibly racist relatives. I also had some relatives who were very forward thinking. For example, one married a Cherokee woman and another married an Eskimo (I don't know if it's kosher to say that rn but that is how they described her). Some relatives would be like "don't know what he saw in her, her face is so flat and small eyes!" Don't get me started on comments about black people. But, they were always nice to me. They loved me and were good family members. I benefited from being in their presence. When they said racist stuff, I knew they were idiots in that regard - ignorant, uneducated, and backward. People are complex. What is harmful about being around a family member with a stupid view (unless it puts you in direct danger)? If anything it's a learning experience and a foil of how not to behave


PP again. As I think about this more, I just want to add that I think this part of the larger cultural push to surround yourself with people who create an echo chamber. I've seen so many posts that are like "could you be friends with a Trump supporter?!" Of course, why not? I am an atheist and have been friends with Christians, Muslims and Jews my whole life. Why could i not be friends with someone who has different political views? He loves guns, I don't. How does that affect our relationship? It strikes me as very callous when people extend that thinking to their own family members. The idea that everyone should think the same as you, even if their views are ridiculous in your eyes (which I think 99% of us can agree racist views certainly are), it seems very egotistical and I would say narcissistic, as well as sheltered, to only surround yourselves with people who share all your same views.


Are there any views that you find so harmful that they would render the person holding them odious enough to you to avoid his or her company? If so, then you are basically saying that racist views don't rise to that level, in your view. Some of us feel differently.


I definitely think this one is borderline. I'm speaking from the kids' perspective. I'm also someone in an interracial marriage. My parents are a little bit racist (probably moderately racist by DCUM standards). They really love their biracial grandkids. I have never heard one negative word out of their mouth, nor has my wife or kids, since we got married. Likewise, my extended family welcomed her with open arms. She keeps telling me everyone is so wonderful and thinks I must be lying about them being racist. I'm just like, "no, they're hella racist." It upsets ME, but I'm speaking from the kids' perspective. They love seeing their extended family and are spoiled by them. It enriches their lives as well. Do I agree with their views - absolutely not. Does it upset ME? Yes. I have all these memories of the bad statements they have made. But it's not about me, it's about the net positive benefit to the family. I agree with you that people feel differently. Just like some people are like, "OMG HE WANTS LOW TAXES I CANNOT POSSIBLY TALK TO HIM"


I think this whole discussion really shows a difference in how people want to be -- and that's okay. Some people don't want to stand for racism in their family, particularly when children are involved, and that is 100% respectable. I am in that camp. But I also know people who have experienced even more blatant racism than my family (we are a mixed-race marriage and family who met and married in the in the 20-teens, another couple we know was a mixed-race couple starting in the 1980s... took a whole ten years for the white side of the family to even acknowledge them).

When I brought up our own experiences with racism in my family, and how we just don't want anything to do with those members who have said horribly racist things regarding my husband and our children, and defended themselves, their (the older mixed-race couple's) response surprisingly was, "Well, they're your family, don't cut them out completely... Show them you're always open to talk and that you love them..." I totally respect that point of view. But honestly, I can't live like that. Throwing myself, my husband and children under the bus to make racist relatives feel more comfortable. I just don't want anything to do with them.

I think the above poster is mixing up political beliefs/opinions with blatant racism. You can disagree on guns and taxes. To me, you can't continue to let racists feel comfortable being racist.

Note: Highly recommend the book Racism without Racists.
Anonymous
Post 07/06/2021 19:13     Subject: Racist relative wants to see my kids
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:This is OP. I suppose I'm torn between the "hard nopes" and the posters who wrote re: "conciliation/education". I do believe Aunt Becky wants to see the kids and it was her idea -- although I have no idea if she is holds racist views or has reformed in her older age. I recognize this is a petty feeling and probably below me, but I also want for some "consequences" to fall upon Aunt Becky (i.e., you were racist to me, so the price to pay for that is you cannot have a relationship with my family).


If she had reached out to you and your husband at some point with an apology, I'd perhaps consider it. But if not, and she just wants everyone to forget about it and meet the kids, no chance.


^ Exactly. The onus is on her. When/if she is ready to be open and caring, you can be forgiving and learn to trust her again. Until then, you are denying the fact that you do not trust her. There is nothing wrong with that.
Anonymous
Post 07/06/2021 18:57     Subject: Racist relative wants to see my kids
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I'm currently visiting family of my husband in another state. My husband and I are from different races -- he's white, I'm a minority. We have been together for 20 years. When we first started dating, an aunt of my husband (not actually an aunt, but a cousin of his mother, let's call her "Aunt Becky") said some very racist things about me to his mother. and others. Aunt Becky said people from my race were no good and that my husband should break up with me and even lobbied some relatives to push for our breakup (for the record, this was seconded by multiple people, so it is not mere hearsay). Anyway, I was very hurt at the time but since Aunt Becky lives in another state, we don't deal with her and my husband could care less about her opinion, the whole thing was forgotten.

Fast forward 20 years. We have three beautiful children. His mother still has a good relationship with Aunt Becky. His mother now wants to take the kids to Aunt Becky's house to use her pool and spend the afternoon there. I don't know how to feel about it. Even though it was a long time ago, I was deeply affected by Aunt Becky's racism (I had never really experienced something so direct like that) and was really hurt as I very much loved (and still love) my husband and couldn't believe someone I never met could hurl a desire to break us up on account of my race. I also have some fears that this person could be nasty to my children or say something hurtful.

My question is: am I being petty here? Should I say something? Should I say that I don't want my children spending time with Aunt Becky? I don't want to make an issue out of something 20 years old but I have this physical reaction to the name "Aunt Becky" and for me the wound is still raw. What do you think I should do?


So, people can't grow and change? Maybe being around you and hearing about you opened her eyes to her stereotypes. Why would she want to spend time with your kids if she looked down on them? And you need to forgive and forget after twenty years. You will be better off, even if she's forgotten the whole thing.[/quote

You must be a troll, but just in case, no, dear, we don't "forgive and forget" overt racism no matter if its been 5 minutes or 50 years, but nice try.
Anonymous
Post 07/06/2021 18:54     Subject: Racist relative wants to see my kids
Anonymous wrote:This is OP. I suppose I'm torn between the "hard nopes" and the posters who wrote re: "conciliation/education". I do believe Aunt Becky wants to see the kids and it was her idea -- although I have no idea if she is holds racist views or has reformed in her older age. I recognize this is a petty feeling and probably below me, but I also want for some "consequences" to fall upon Aunt Becky (i.e., you were racist to me, so the price to pay for that is you cannot have a relationship with my family).


I would wonder why Aunt Becky wants to see the kids. Are they a curiosity to her? Does she want to say something mean to them? It doesn’t sit well with me that she wants to see them. I wouldn’t let the kids go and I would tell MIL.

FWIW, I was in a situation similar to yours 20 years ago and I do allow my kids to visit with the person. DH is well aware of entire situation and has my back. He takes them and this person has been good to my kids. Your MIL doesn’t know what Aunt Becky did, so if Aunt Becky started getting nasty, MIL may not know to take the kids away or may not believe them if Becky says something mean when MIL isn’t around.
Anonymous
Post 07/06/2021 18:36     Subject: Re:Racist relative wants to see my kids
I am on the side of those saying: NOPE. I even like the idea of not skirting around the reason why. Be proud, loud, and clear.

YOUR job is to protect yourself and your children, not protect the feelings of grown up adults.

I am speaking as a (white) mother to biracial kids. I have only now begun to feel what racism feels like, through my (black) husband and young children.

Certain relatives are not worth our time. They say they are "hurting" because I don't talk with them anymore.

Through many sessions of therapy and support from amazing, caring friends and family, I am finally at peace that they can hurt. No longer feeling guilty about it. They are hurting US with their racism. No need for me to bend my values or put my chosen family on the back-burner to appease other relatives.

ONE caveat I have: if this "Aunt Becky" truly ever sincerely apologizes to you, in a real authentic way, that means following up with something like, "I am learning, and would love to learn about your experience as a minority in this country..." 100% different story. Try your hardest to forgive and see that as a success, a human being who is learning and growing like all of us.

That part above is what I struggle with the most in my situation: I would 100% resume relations with certain people if they just showed willingness to be open and learn, to connect and grow. But people have to be ready, really, from within themselves. Never helps much to try to push them from the outside.

Good luck, I feel you.
Anonymous
Post 07/06/2021 18:26     Subject: Racist relative wants to see my kids
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:As someone who grew up in the south, I had multiple incredibly racist relatives. I also had some relatives who were very forward thinking. For example, one married a Cherokee woman and another married an Eskimo (I don't know if it's kosher to say that rn but that is how they described her). Some relatives would be like "don't know what he saw in her, her face is so flat and small eyes!" Don't get me started on comments about black people. But, they were always nice to me. They loved me and were good family members. I benefited from being in their presence. When they said racist stuff, I knew they were idiots in that regard - ignorant, uneducated, and backward. People are complex. What is harmful about being around a family member with a stupid view (unless it puts you in direct danger)? If anything it's a learning experience and a foil of how not to behave


PP again. As I think about this more, I just want to add that I think this part of the larger cultural push to surround yourself with people who create an echo chamber. I've seen so many posts that are like "could you be friends with a Trump supporter?!" Of course, why not? I am an atheist and have been friends with Christians, Muslims and Jews my whole life. Why could i not be friends with someone who has different political views? He loves guns, I don't. How does that affect our relationship? It strikes me as very callous when people extend that thinking to their own family members. The idea that everyone should think the same as you, even if their views are ridiculous in your eyes (which I think 99% of us can agree racist views certainly are), it seems very egotistical and I would say narcissistic, as well as sheltered, to only surround yourselves with people who share all your same views.


Are there any views that you find so harmful that they would render the person holding them odious enough to you to avoid his or her company? If so, then you are basically saying that racist views don't rise to that level, in your view. Some of us feel differently.


I definitely think this one is borderline. I'm speaking from the kids' perspective. I'm also someone in an interracial marriage. My parents are a little bit racist (probably moderately racist by DCUM standards). They really love their biracial grandkids. I have never heard one negative word out of their mouth, nor has my wife or kids, since we got married. Likewise, my extended family welcomed her with open arms. She keeps telling me everyone is so wonderful and thinks I must be lying about them being racist. I'm just like, "no, they're hella racist." It upsets ME, but I'm speaking from the kids' perspective. They love seeing their extended family and are spoiled by them. It enriches their lives as well. Do I agree with their views - absolutely not. Does it upset ME? Yes. I have all these memories of the bad statements they have made. But it's not about me, it's about the net positive benefit to the family. I agree with you that people feel differently. Just like some people are like, "OMG HE WANTS LOW TAXES I CANNOT POSSIBLY TALK TO HIM"

WTF!!!
Racism hurts people
Racism is bad
There’s no little bit racist, just like there is no little bit pregnant.
And if your parents are racist but live your grandkids beachside they are ‘mixed’ or ‘the ire’s’ or ‘different’, ‘not the same as the other ones, Then they are effing racist and that racism hurt your kids, it hurts my kids, it hurts everyone else who has to be subjected to their racism that you just think it is no big effing deal.
You can tell you were raised by racist as you can so easily dismiss it.
Anonymous
Post 07/06/2021 18:22     Subject: Racist relative wants to see my kids
Anonymous wrote:A lot has changed in 20 years. Just go, have a wonderful time at the pool, be a gracious guest, and show her how wrong she was. My guess is that she has changed her opinion over the years.

It’s not the job of a victim of racism to prove that they’re better than what the racist saysthey are !
what a dolt!
Anonymous
Post 07/06/2021 18:21     Subject: Racist relative wants to see my kids
Anonymous wrote:As someone who grew up in the south, I had multiple incredibly racist relatives. I also had some relatives who were very forward thinking. For example, one married a Cherokee woman and another married an Eskimo (I don't know if it's kosher to say that rn but that is how they described her). Some relatives would be like "don't know what he saw in her, her face is so flat and small eyes!" Don't get me started on comments about black people. But, they were always nice to me. They loved me and were good family members. I benefited from being in their presence. When they said racist stuff, I knew they were idiots in that regard - ignorant, uneducated, and backward. People are complex. What is harmful about being around a family member with a stupid view (unless it puts you in direct danger)? If anything it's a learning experience and a foil of how not to behave

People like you make me sick. That racist stuff that didn’t affect you it affected me it affects my kids affects my husband it affects my parents and my cousins affects my friends people like you are so ignorant like oh it’s not a big deal. ITS A BIG EFFFINGGGGG DEAL.
It affects people emotions, their hearts,Racist don’t just exist in a vacuum the racism affects employment , it affects systems and politics, it affects relationships.
When you see people spew poison you don’t just ignore it because they did not spit on you!!!
Anonymous
Post 07/06/2021 18:17     Subject: Racist relative wants to see my kids
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I'm currently visiting family of my husband in another state. My husband and I are from different races -- he's white, I'm a minority. We have been together for 20 years. When we first started dating, an aunt of my husband (not actually an aunt, but a cousin of his mother, let's call her "Aunt Becky") said some very racist things about me to his mother. and others. Aunt Becky said people from my race were no good and that my husband should break up with me and even lobbied some relatives to push for our breakup (for the record, this was seconded by multiple people, so it is not mere hearsay). Anyway, I was very hurt at the time but since Aunt Becky lives in another state, we don't deal with her and my husband could care less about her opinion, the whole thing was forgotten.

Fast forward 20 years. We have three beautiful children. His mother still has a good relationship with Aunt Becky. His mother now wants to take the kids to Aunt Becky's house to use her pool and spend the afternoon there. I don't know how to feel about it. Even though it was a long time ago, I was deeply affected by Aunt Becky's racism (I had never really experienced something so direct like that) and was really hurt as I very much loved (and still love) my husband and couldn't believe someone I never met could hurl a desire to break us up on account of my race. I also have some fears that this person could be nasty to my children or say something hurtful.

My question is: am I being petty here? Should I say something? Should I say that I don't want my children spending time with Aunt Becky? I don't want to make an issue out of something 20 years old but I have this physical reaction to the name "Aunt Becky" and for me the wound is still raw. What do you think I should do?


So, people can't grow and change? Maybe being around you and hearing about you opened her eyes to her stereotypes. Why would she want to spend time with your kids if she looked down on them? And you need to forgive and forget after twenty years. You will be better off, even if she's forgotten the whole thing.

DP, you are crazy AF!!!!
Anonymous
Post 07/06/2021 18:15     Subject: Re:Racist relative wants to see my kids
Anonymous wrote:Another nope. Your husband explains to his mother than Aunt Becky has been pointedly [u]rude about people of your race and he doesn't want his children to be exposed to people who think and talk that way. Mom can find something else to do with the kids when she has them, another pool or another venue entirely.

You mean RACIST