Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our (very tiny) church has been back in person a few months now. A lot of people haven’t returned to in person at all. It’s a weird space to be between restrictions and normalcy. Our habits of social distancing are hard to break, but there’s also this excitement of normalcy. We are looking forward to our small groups resuming in person and social events. A lot of new people have been coming but mostly people who moved to the area during covid. We just dropped the mask requirement (the building we rent required us to stay masked). I think there’s a sense of joy to be back and be with people rather than a feeling of obligation. People come back to church now because they missed it, not so much because of guilt. I think you’ll see a bigger influx back in the fall.

I predict that the sense of joy at being together will wane and that church attendance will drop in the fall. We shall see.

Traditionally there are three times a year when people will check out or return to church—New Year’s (resolutions), Easter, and back to school season. If you ever see a new church launching they are nearly all launching around one of those times. I’m not sure we’ll see an influx of non-believers exploring church, but people who are hesitant to go back may be motivated by one of those three times. But you’re right, we shall see!

I went to a neighborhood Catholic church once at Easter. It was packed and the priest sarcastically remarked on the crowd in his sermon. I and my fellow lapsed Catholic friend left during communion.

I think every pastor in ever church tosses that line into Christmas and Easter services. The pandemic made our family realize that we don't like our new pastor much and that church was turning into an obligation. We aren't going back. I expect our particular church to go under, really a terrible time to have a long term beloved pastor retire compounded by a bad fit replacement which lead to an almost equally loved associate pastor fleeing. That plus the pandemic closing services and giving people a break from routine is going to be too much. Some of our friends have started attending other churches, but a lot have just started to enjoy Sunday mornings

Many pastors do toss that in. It’s more of a joking way to say hey, if you like us during Christmas and Easter, we are here all the time.

Also, when a beloved and longtime pastor retires or passes away, the new pastor is usually younger and less experienced, and it seems odd to older people that this young person is the pastor. Or something like that. People are used to and have grown to love their pastor and the new guy doesn’t fit the bill. When our pastor died, he was replaced by a very young man that many in our church didn’t click with. A few people left, but most stayed. It seems strange to 60/70/80 year olds that a 20 something is instructing them. There was a movement w/i the church to not vote to keep him, but the older and more influential parishioners contacted those who were unhappy and urged them to vote to keep the new pastor. I don’t know their reasoning, but he ended up staying.

My favorite pastor of all time was a younger man that had a lovely wife and 4 kids. He really was a caring man, and it seemed he was the perfect fit. Our longtime pastor had died. The new pastor came in and even the elderly contingent of female widows were happy with the new guy. Unfortunately, his wife had an affair with a male parishioner and ended up leaving her husband and abandoned her 4 young kids in the process. Although the pastor stayed the course, the hierarchy within the church decided to move him and the kids to a different church because of the issue. It was probably deeply humiliating and hurtful to this poor man. To his immense credit, he never lost a step publicly in his duties to his church or publicly wavered in his faith.

One good thing about church is you can choose. My deeply deeply traditional southern Baptist aunt occasionally attends church at a specific United Methodist church because she loves their pastor’s sermons. She says he is her favorite pastor, and even though she will never leave the church she has attended for 6 decades, some Sundays she wants to hear the UM pastor.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our (very tiny) church has been back in person a few months now. A lot of people haven’t returned to in person at all. It’s a weird space to be between restrictions and normalcy. Our habits of social distancing are hard to break, but there’s also this excitement of normalcy. We are looking forward to our small groups resuming in person and social events. A lot of new people have been coming but mostly people who moved to the area during covid. We just dropped the mask requirement (the building we rent required us to stay masked). I think there’s a sense of joy to be back and be with people rather than a feeling of obligation. People come back to church now because they missed it, not so much because of guilt. I think you’ll see a bigger influx back in the fall.

I predict that the sense of joy at being together will wane and that church attendance will drop in the fall. We shall see.

Traditionally there are three times a year when people will check out or return to church—New Year’s (resolutions), Easter, and back to school season. If you ever see a new church launching they are nearly all launching around one of those times. I’m not sure we’ll see an influx of non-believers exploring church, but people who are hesitant to go back may be motivated by one of those three times. But you’re right, we shall see!

I went to a neighborhood Catholic church once at Easter. It was packed and the priest sarcastically remarked on the crowd in his sermon. I and my fellow lapsed Catholic friend left during communion.

I think every pastor in ever church tosses that line into Christmas and Easter services. The pandemic made our family realize that we don't like our new pastor much and that church was turning into an obligation. We aren't going back. I expect our particular church to go under, really a terrible time to have a long term beloved pastor retire compounded by a bad fit replacement which lead to an almost equally loved associate pastor fleeing. That plus the pandemic closing services and giving people a break from routine is going to be too much. Some of our friends have started attending other churches, but a lot have just started to enjoy Sunday mornings

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here --

Just for the record, I'm not any of the PPs saying that you need community for spirituality or worship.

But, riffing on that for a bit -- what do we mean when we talk about community in the context of religion or spirituality? Our church is a large one with a sense of bustle and activity and perhaps even "eliteness" in some sense. That part has always left me cold. I do think, however, that the church community can be a force for good and can be caring when members find themselves in need of aid. But I also know those things can be found elsewhere. What do you value in your faith community? What are you looking for that you might not find there? What are other communities where you've found those things?

Maybe it's time for a new thread on these topics?

Agree -- we've gone beyond the original subject, so I'll spin off a new thread.

Anonymous wrote:OP here --

Just for the record, I'm not any of the PPs saying that you need community for spirituality or worship.

But, riffing on that for a bit -- what do we mean when we talk about community in the context of religion or spirituality? Our church is a large one with a sense of bustle and activity and perhaps even "eliteness" in some sense. That part has always left me cold. I do think, however, that the church community can be a force for good and can be caring when members find themselves in need of aid. But I also know those things can be found elsewhere. What do you value in your faith community? What are you looking for that you might not find there? What are other communities where you've found those things?

Maybe it's time for a new thread on these topics?

OP here --

Just for the record, I'm not any of the PPs saying that you need community for spirituality or worship.

But, riffing on that for a bit -- what do we mean when we talk about community in the context of religion or spirituality? Our church is a large one with a sense of bustle and activity and perhaps even "eliteness" in some sense. That part has always left me cold. I do think, however, that the church community can be a force for good and can be caring when members find themselves in need of aid. But I also know those things can be found elsewhere. What do you value in your faith community? What are you looking for that you might not find there? What are other communities where you've found those things?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We've been regular church-goers and active in our church community for 20 years. During the pandemic the church did youtube services, but I just couldn't get into them. Now in-person services are starting again and I have zero interest in attending. It's not that I've lost my faith in God or some higher being that is loving kindness, but I just don't see the connection between that faith and church services or activities. Does anyone else feel this way or have you ever felt this way? How did you journey forward?

Thanks for asking this, OP. I know what you mean. I'm forcing myself to go back and I realize how much I've missed it... although, I'm annoyed that my church is still requiring masks. I think that is keeping an unnecessary barrier between people in place and is contributing to the feeling you have described.

We are meant to worship in community.

SOME PEOPLE prefer a religious community. And God knows churches emphasize the importance of group worship. Without it, they would go out of business. What COVID seems to have done is make some people realize how much they crave community, while others have found they prefer the spirituality of being alone, perhaps in nature.

Geeze triggered much? There is no spirituality in being alone. That is what drives people to the depths of depression

Not triggered at all, and you? Plenty of people who describe themselves as "spiritual but not religious" are not a part of a "spiritual community." It's a very individual thing.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We've been regular church-goers and active in our church community for 20 years. During the pandemic the church did youtube services, but I just couldn't get into them. Now in-person services are starting again and I have zero interest in attending. It's not that I've lost my faith in God or some higher being that is loving kindness, but I just don't see the connection between that faith and church services or activities. Does anyone else feel this way or have you ever felt this way? How did you journey forward?

Thanks for asking this, OP. I know what you mean. I'm forcing myself to go back and I realize how much I've missed it... although, I'm annoyed that my church is still requiring masks. I think that is keeping an unnecessary barrier between people in place and is contributing to the feeling you have described.

We are meant to worship in community.

SOME PEOPLE prefer a religious community. And God knows churches emphasize the importance of group worship. Without it, they would go out of business. What COVID seems to have done is make some people realize how much they crave community, while others have found they prefer the spirituality of being alone, perhaps in nature.

Geeze triggered much? There is no spirituality in being alone. That is what drives people to the depths of depression

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our (very tiny) church has been back in person a few months now. A lot of people haven’t returned to in person at all. It’s a weird space to be between restrictions and normalcy. Our habits of social distancing are hard to break, but there’s also this excitement of normalcy. We are looking forward to our small groups resuming in person and social events. A lot of new people have been coming but mostly people who moved to the area during covid. We just dropped the mask requirement (the building we rent required us to stay masked). I think there’s a sense of joy to be back and be with people rather than a feeling of obligation. People come back to church now because they missed it, not so much because of guilt. I think you’ll see a bigger influx back in the fall.

I predict that the sense of joy at being together will wane and that church attendance will drop in the fall. We shall see.

Traditionally there are three times a year when people will check out or return to church—New Year’s (resolutions), Easter, and back to school season. If you ever see a new church launching they are nearly all launching around one of those times. I’m not sure we’ll see an influx of non-believers exploring church, but people who are hesitant to go back may be motivated by one of those three times. But you’re right, we shall see!

I went to a neighborhood Catholic church once at Easter. It was packed and the priest sarcastically remarked on the crowd in his sermon. I and my fellow lapsed Catholic friend left during communion.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our (very tiny) church has been back in person a few months now. A lot of people haven’t returned to in person at all. It’s a weird space to be between restrictions and normalcy. Our habits of social distancing are hard to break, but there’s also this excitement of normalcy. We are looking forward to our small groups resuming in person and social events. A lot of new people have been coming but mostly people who moved to the area during covid. We just dropped the mask requirement (the building we rent required us to stay masked). I think there’s a sense of joy to be back and be with people rather than a feeling of obligation. People come back to church now because they missed it, not so much because of guilt. I think you’ll see a bigger influx back in the fall.

I predict that the sense of joy at being together will wane and that church attendance will drop in the fall. We shall see.

Traditionally there are three times a year when people will check out or return to church—New Year’s (resolutions), Easter, and back to school season. If you ever see a new church launching they are nearly all launching around one of those times. I’m not sure we’ll see an influx of non-believers exploring church, but people who are hesitant to go back may be motivated by one of those three times. But you’re right, we shall see!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We've been regular church-goers and active in our church community for 20 years. During the pandemic the church did youtube services, but I just couldn't get into them. Now in-person services are starting again and I have zero interest in attending. It's not that I've lost my faith in God or some higher being that is loving kindness, but I just don't see the connection between that faith and church services or activities. Does anyone else feel this way or have you ever felt this way? How did you journey forward?

Thanks for asking this, OP. I know what you mean. I'm forcing myself to go back and I realize how much I've missed it... although, I'm annoyed that my church is still requiring masks. I think that is keeping an unnecessary barrier between people in place and is contributing to the feeling you have described.

We are meant to worship in community.

SOME PEOPLE prefer a religious community. And God knows churches emphasize the importance of group worship. Without it, they would go out of business. What COVID seems to have done is make some people realize how much they crave community, while others have found they prefer the spirituality of being alone, perhaps in nature.

We have not returned to attending in-person yet because our 3 children (10, 7, and 5) are not vaccinated. Our church is requiring masks for anyone unvaccinated, but it still seems like an needless risk. We plan to return to regular in-person attendance when the kids are fully vaccinated.

I saw a sign on a church marquee once that read, "Seven days without church makes one weak." I tend to agree- the routine of gathering and worshipping together is meaningful, even if it does sometimes feel like a drag or obligation. Sometimes church is hard- relationally, logistically, etc.- but in the long run, I think it's worth it.

We found a new church to join in the pandemic, as the other online version was just not cutting it and there were a lot of other issues with the old church that surfaced as part of the pandemic. I am ultimately much happier, although I never thought I would switch denominations! Whatever. I am also not interested in rituals and processions, just for the sake of it. I do believe corporate worship is a very important thing. The pandemic just cut through what that really meant for me, and I lost a beloved church and a lot of friends because of those realizations. I also think that most churches are way behind the times on this topic (and how they handled the pandemic) and there is going to be a huge loss of members and participation.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here -- Thanks for your willingness to engage in this discussion. My reluctance to return to church services isn't COVID-related, either in the sense of fears of a renewed pandemic or anxiety about interacting with large groups of people indoors. In the past couple of months I've traveled by plane, attended two large events with indoor components, participated in smaller meetings indoors, etc. (I've been vaccinated as have been all my family members.) So, I don't anticipate any discomfort about attending church; I just don't feel that large services with their rituals and sermons will hold the same meaning for me as they once did. When the pandemic began, I thought I'd miss those long-comforting rituals, but that hasn't been so. Instead, I've found that prayer, stillness, and meditation have fed my soul. As an earlier poster mentioned, a smaller contemplative service might be what I'm looking for now, but, the performance aspects of church (processional, music, sermon) are not compelling to me at this time. For a couple of months now I've been doing an outdoors house church service with friends, which has been lovely and centering. I'm hoping to continue with that.

You sound somewhat "Spiritual but not religious" which was brought out by the pandemic.

As an atheist, the performance aspects of church are all that I like, so I missed Christmas and Easter and look forward to them next year.

That's hilarious. Actually, when I started going to church regularly as an adult -- and parent -- about 20 years ago, I adored that stuff -- really just ate it up. It's like I went from being a "none" (not a nun ) to being "religious" in the most traditional sense to being "spiritual" with a strong affinity for service to others. I don't think that's where our old church is really focused at this time, so I'm probably looking for a new church, possibly even Unitarian.

Unitarians welcome all kinds of people, and don't ask you to believe in God or to follow religious dogma. but you're looking for a group of people who think or believe just like you do, Unitarian probably won't work.

The assumption that other denominations/sects are filled with like-minded sheeple is not a good look, Unitarian PP.

Anonymous wrote:Our (very tiny) church has been back in person a few months now. A lot of people haven’t returned to in person at all. It’s a weird space to be between restrictions and normalcy. Our habits of social distancing are hard to break, but there’s also this excitement of normalcy. We are looking forward to our small groups resuming in person and social events. A lot of new people have been coming but mostly people who moved to the area during covid. We just dropped the mask requirement (the building we rent required us to stay masked). I think there’s a sense of joy to be back and be with people rather than a feeling of obligation. People come back to church now because they missed it, not so much because of guilt. I think you’ll see a bigger influx back in the fall.

I predict that the sense of joy at being together will wane and that church attendance will drop in the fall. We shall see.

Anonymous wrote:We've been regular church-goers and active in our church community for 20 years. During the pandemic the church did youtube services, but I just couldn't get into them. Now in-person services are starting again and I have zero interest in attending. It's not that I've lost my faith in God or some higher being that is loving kindness, but I just don't see the connection between that faith and church services or activities. Does anyone else feel this way or have you ever felt this way? How did you journey forward?

Thanks for asking this, OP. I know what you mean. I'm forcing myself to go back and I realize how much I've missed it... although, I'm annoyed that my church is still requiring masks. I think that is keeping an unnecessary barrier between people in place and is contributing to the feeling you have described.

We are meant to worship in community.