Anonymous
06/29/2021 19:11
Subject: Re:NCAP Locations - Different programs?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Adding that at the HS level there are major differences between locations and it's not uncommon for kids to move to a new location depending on what their stroke and training preferences are. I wouldn't worry about that at your young age, but if folks are approaching HS age--do your homework. For instance, we've seen multiple breastrokers join the GPrep site, only to move elsewhere within a year or two. At the elite level, GPrep is all about distance free style, 400 IM, and tons of yardage. This type of training can "break breastroke" technique. Stroke specialists seem to prefer the AU site.
Your mixing things up with prep. Yuri, Rick Meghan were the 4IM mindset. It does work but it’s not for every swimmer.
Bruce is all about distance free. That’s at least what he claims he’s the guru for. He only caters to the lane leaders. If you aren’t a lane leader you will miss the interval and swim continuously and he’s fine with that. Only the top kids will get him accolades so the others might as well not exist to him
Got it. I just heard from a friend that this site is a TOTAL MESS RIGHT NOW. They've lost a coach (Sue) and virtually all their male swimmers who swam in Bruce's group. May shake out and be fine by the Fall. But anyone looking for a new HS level spot, should stay away from GP site until things are resolved.
Yes. Major attrition on women’s side also.
This is not true. They have not lost a coach.
You are out of the loop. Sue Chen has resigned.
Where is she going?
Anonymous
06/29/2021 16:52
Subject: Re:NCAP Locations - Different programs?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Adding that at the HS level there are major differences between locations and it's not uncommon for kids to move to a new location depending on what their stroke and training preferences are. I wouldn't worry about that at your young age, but if folks are approaching HS age--do your homework. For instance, we've seen multiple breastrokers join the GPrep site, only to move elsewhere within a year or two. At the elite level, GPrep is all about distance free style, 400 IM, and tons of yardage. This type of training can "break breastroke" technique. Stroke specialists seem to prefer the AU site.
Your mixing things up with prep. Yuri, Rick Meghan were the 4IM mindset. It does work but it’s not for every swimmer.
Bruce is all about distance free. That’s at least what he claims he’s the guru for. He only caters to the lane leaders. If you aren’t a lane leader you will miss the interval and swim continuously and he’s fine with that. Only the top kids will get him accolades so the others might as well not exist to him
Got it. I just heard from a friend that this site is a TOTAL MESS RIGHT NOW. They've lost a coach (Sue) and virtually all their male swimmers who swam in Bruce's group. May shake out and be fine by the Fall. But anyone looking for a new HS level spot, should stay away from GP site until things are resolved.
Yes. Major attrition on women’s side also.
This is not true. They have not lost a coach.
You are out of the loop. Sue Chen has resigned.
Anonymous
06/29/2021 12:22
Subject: Re:NCAP Locations - Different programs?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Adding that at the HS level there are major differences between locations and it's not uncommon for kids to move to a new location depending on what their stroke and training preferences are. I wouldn't worry about that at your young age, but if folks are approaching HS age--do your homework. For instance, we've seen multiple breastrokers join the GPrep site, only to move elsewhere within a year or two. At the elite level, GPrep is all about distance free style, 400 IM, and tons of yardage. This type of training can "break breastroke" technique. Stroke specialists seem to prefer the AU site.
Your mixing things up with prep. Yuri, Rick Meghan were the 4IM mindset. It does work but it’s not for every swimmer.
Bruce is all about distance free. That’s at least what he claims he’s the guru for. He only caters to the lane leaders. If you aren’t a lane leader you will miss the interval and swim continuously and he’s fine with that. Only the top kids will get him accolades so the others might as well not exist to him
Got it. I just heard from a friend that this site is a TOTAL MESS RIGHT NOW. They've lost a coach (Sue) and virtually all their male swimmers who swam in Bruce's group. May shake out and be fine by the Fall. But anyone looking for a new HS level spot, should stay away from GP site until things are resolved.
Yes. Major attrition on women’s side also.
This is not true. They have not lost a coach.
Anonymous
06/28/2021 14:50
Subject: Re:NCAP Locations - Different programs?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Adding that at the HS level there are major differences between locations and it's not uncommon for kids to move to a new location depending on what their stroke and training preferences are. I wouldn't worry about that at your young age, but if folks are approaching HS age--do your homework. For instance, we've seen multiple breastrokers join the GPrep site, only to move elsewhere within a year or two. At the elite level, GPrep is all about distance free style, 400 IM, and tons of yardage. This type of training can "break breastroke" technique. Stroke specialists seem to prefer the AU site.
Your mixing things up with prep. Yuri, Rick Meghan were the 4IM mindset. It does work but it’s not for every swimmer.
Bruce is all about distance free. That’s at least what he claims he’s the guru for. He only caters to the lane leaders. If you aren’t a lane leader you will miss the interval and swim continuously and he’s fine with that. Only the top kids will get him accolades so the others might as well not exist to him
Got it. I just heard from a friend that this site is a TOTAL MESS RIGHT NOW. They've lost a coach (Sue) and virtually all their male swimmers who swam in Bruce's group. May shake out and be fine by the Fall. But anyone looking for a new HS level spot, should stay away from GP site until things are resolved.
Yes. Major attrition on women’s side also.
Where are those GP swimmers going? Different NCAP site or new teams?
Different RMSC sites, ASA, NCAP AU and some notables to Fish in VA
Anonymous
06/28/2021 14:01
Subject: Re:NCAP Locations - Different programs?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Adding that at the HS level there are major differences between locations and it's not uncommon for kids to move to a new location depending on what their stroke and training preferences are. I wouldn't worry about that at your young age, but if folks are approaching HS age--do your homework. For instance, we've seen multiple breastrokers join the GPrep site, only to move elsewhere within a year or two. At the elite level, GPrep is all about distance free style, 400 IM, and tons of yardage. This type of training can "break breastroke" technique. Stroke specialists seem to prefer the AU site.
Your mixing things up with prep. Yuri, Rick Meghan were the 4IM mindset. It does work but it’s not for every swimmer.
Bruce is all about distance free. That’s at least what he claims he’s the guru for. He only caters to the lane leaders. If you aren’t a lane leader you will miss the interval and swim continuously and he’s fine with that. Only the top kids will get him accolades so the others might as well not exist to him
Got it. I just heard from a friend that this site is a TOTAL MESS RIGHT NOW. They've lost a coach (Sue) and virtually all their male swimmers who swam in Bruce's group. May shake out and be fine by the Fall. But anyone looking for a new HS level spot, should stay away from GP site until things are resolved.
Yes. Major attrition on women’s side also.
Where are those GP swimmers going? Different NCAP site or new teams?
Anonymous
06/28/2021 13:35
Subject: Re:NCAP Locations - Different programs?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Adding that at the HS level there are major differences between locations and it's not uncommon for kids to move to a new location depending on what their stroke and training preferences are. I wouldn't worry about that at your young age, but if folks are approaching HS age--do your homework. For instance, we've seen multiple breastrokers join the GPrep site, only to move elsewhere within a year or two. At the elite level, GPrep is all about distance free style, 400 IM, and tons of yardage. This type of training can "break breastroke" technique. Stroke specialists seem to prefer the AU site.
Your mixing things up with prep. Yuri, Rick Meghan were the 4IM mindset. It does work but it’s not for every swimmer.
Bruce is all about distance free. That’s at least what he claims he’s the guru for. He only caters to the lane leaders. If you aren’t a lane leader you will miss the interval and swim continuously and he’s fine with that. Only the top kids will get him accolades so the others might as well not exist to him
Got it. I just heard from a friend that this site is a TOTAL MESS RIGHT NOW. They've lost a coach (Sue) and virtually all their male swimmers who swam in Bruce's group. May shake out and be fine by the Fall. But anyone looking for a new HS level spot, should stay away from GP site until things are resolved.
Yes. Major attrition on women’s side also.
Anonymous
06/28/2021 09:41
Subject: Re:NCAP Locations - Different programs?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Adding that at the HS level there are major differences between locations and it's not uncommon for kids to move to a new location depending on what their stroke and training preferences are. I wouldn't worry about that at your young age, but if folks are approaching HS age--do your homework. For instance, we've seen multiple breastrokers join the GPrep site, only to move elsewhere within a year or two. At the elite level, GPrep is all about distance free style, 400 IM, and tons of yardage. This type of training can "break breastroke" technique. Stroke specialists seem to prefer the AU site.
Your mixing things up with prep. Yuri, Rick Meghan were the 4IM mindset. It does work but it’s not for every swimmer.
Bruce is all about distance free. That’s at least what he claims he’s the guru for. He only caters to the lane leaders. If you aren’t a lane leader you will miss the interval and swim continuously and he’s fine with that. Only the top kids will get him accolades so the others might as well not exist to him
Got it. I just heard from a friend that this site is a TOTAL MESS RIGHT NOW. They've lost a coach (Sue) and virtually all their male swimmers who swam in Bruce's group. May shake out and be fine by the Fall. But anyone looking for a new HS level spot, should stay away from GP site until things are resolved.
Anonymous
06/28/2021 05:56
Subject: Re:NCAP Locations - Different programs?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:The AU is absolutely freestyle and distance site. The top NCAP breaststrokers are currently in Virginia. Also draftee with distance free messing up breast. Many breaststrokers specialize in distance free as second event, as they have excellent lungs (in breast you spend a lot of time underwater, basically). My son was always improving breast when training distance and vice versa.
Ncap AU very underrated. Tim Kelly is not a self promoter but he gets results. His past swimmers have gone on to great success but ncap prep gets a lot more attention because they market themselves as the premier site. People often deceived by this
How many ncap swimmers go on to swim in college? For those who don’t, or don’t want too, what motivates them to practice with such intensity throughout the year? Is the ultimate goal just to compete throughout high school and end their swimming careers? I’m not trying to be snarky. It’s just just a huge financial and time commitment and I’m trying to understand where the motivation comes from if you’re not a swimmer destined for college swimming.
For the love of the sport and all that goes with it. All the reasons we have our kids in any sport, at any level. So basically, yes, to be the best HS athlete you can be as that fits with your other commitments and goals.
Realistic athletes and parents know a small number of athletes continue at the collegiate level, particularly Division 1. I can't speak directly to NCAP as my child is at another club, but at ours there are multiple levels of HS practice groups. Only one is geared to training towards national level competition and eventual collegiate swimming. Not all HS swimmers are swimming hours every day with the most intense practice group, there are options based on goals and ability. It takes a certain amount of love for swimming and intrinsic motivation to keep it up with social and academic pressures no matter the level.
Well said!
Anonymous
06/27/2021 23:35
Subject: Re:NCAP Locations - Different programs?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:The AU is absolutely freestyle and distance site. The top NCAP breaststrokers are currently in Virginia. Also draftee with distance free messing up breast. Many breaststrokers specialize in distance free as second event, as they have excellent lungs (in breast you spend a lot of time underwater, basically). My son was always improving breast when training distance and vice versa.
Ncap AU very underrated. Tim Kelly is not a self promoter but he gets results. His past swimmers have gone on to great success but ncap prep gets a lot more attention because they market themselves as the premier site. People often deceived by this
How many ncap swimmers go on to swim in college? For those who don’t, or don’t want too, what motivates them to practice with such intensity throughout the year? Is the ultimate goal just to compete throughout high school and end their swimming careers? I’m not trying to be snarky. It’s just just a huge financial and time commitment and I’m trying to understand where the motivation comes from if you’re not a swimmer destined for college swimming.
For the love of the sport and all that goes with it. All the reasons we have our kids in any sport, at any level. So basically, yes, to be the best HS athlete you can be as that fits with your other commitments and goals.
Realistic athletes and parents know a small number of athletes continue at the collegiate level, particularly Division 1. I can't speak directly to NCAP as my child is at another club, but at ours there are multiple levels of HS practice groups. Only one is geared to training towards national level competition and eventual collegiate swimming. Not all HS swimmers are swimming hours every day with the most intense practice group, there are options based on goals and ability. It takes a certain amount of love for swimming and intrinsic motivation to keep it up with social and academic pressures no matter the level.
Anonymous
06/27/2021 23:35
Subject: Re:NCAP Locations - Different programs?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:The AU is absolutely freestyle and distance site. The top NCAP breaststrokers are currently in Virginia. Also draftee with distance free messing up breast. Many breaststrokers specialize in distance free as second event, as they have excellent lungs (in breast you spend a lot of time underwater, basically). My son was always improving breast when training distance and vice versa.
Ncap AU very underrated. Tim Kelly is not a self promoter but he gets results. His past swimmers have gone on to great success but ncap prep gets a lot more attention because they market themselves as the premier site. People often deceived by this
How many ncap swimmers go on to swim in college? For those who don’t, or don’t want too, what motivates them to practice with such intensity throughout the year? Is the ultimate goal just to compete throughout high school and end their swimming careers? I’m not trying to be snarky. It’s just just a huge financial and time commitment and I’m trying to understand where the motivation comes from if you’re not a swimmer destined for college swimming.
It really varies. Some kids love swimming and are passionate about it. Id say in the top ncap groups about 1/3rd swim D3, 1/3 D1 and 1/3 quit upon finishing but I don’t have exact #s. If you really love the sport that’s great but there is a lot of sacrifice for all those hours of practice and early mornings that kids might wish to have back later. I think in the future we see a move to more sophisticated swimming in youth circles. 2-3 hr practices produce very little marginal return above say a 90 min practice with a Warmup, kick set, endurance set, speed set and then technique set and warm down. Coaches refuse to train smarter and prefer to go longer and harder and really could read up on some Stephen Seiler
Anonymous
06/27/2021 22:23
Subject: Re:NCAP Locations - Different programs?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:The AU is absolutely freestyle and distance site. The top NCAP breaststrokers are currently in Virginia. Also draftee with distance free messing up breast. Many breaststrokers specialize in distance free as second event, as they have excellent lungs (in breast you spend a lot of time underwater, basically). My son was always improving breast when training distance and vice versa.
Ncap AU very underrated. Tim Kelly is not a self promoter but he gets results. His past swimmers have gone on to great success but ncap prep gets a lot more attention because they market themselves as the premier site. People often deceived by this
How many ncap swimmers go on to swim in college? For those who don’t, or don’t want too, what motivates them to practice with such intensity throughout the year? Is the ultimate goal just to compete throughout high school and end their swimming careers? I’m not trying to be snarky. It’s just just a huge financial and time commitment and I’m trying to understand where the motivation comes from if you’re not a swimmer destined for college swimming.
Anonymous
06/27/2021 20:14
Subject: Re:NCAP Locations - Different programs?
Anonymous wrote:The AU is absolutely freestyle and distance site. The top NCAP breaststrokers are currently in Virginia. Also draftee with distance free messing up breast. Many breaststrokers specialize in distance free as second event, as they have excellent lungs (in breast you spend a lot of time underwater, basically). My son was always improving breast when training distance and vice versa.
Ncap AU very underrated. Tim Kelly is not a self promoter but he gets results. His past swimmers have gone on to great success but ncap prep gets a lot more attention because they market themselves as the premier site. People often deceived by this
Anonymous
06/27/2021 20:12
Subject: NCAP Locations - Different programs?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:He got poached by Wisconsin bc he trained Ledecky at Prep
I believe Yuri coached the younger group at the Prep site, so he coached Ledecky before her first Olympics. Gemmell definitely claimed to coach her as well. (https://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/11/sports/swimming-katie-ledecky-coach-bruce-gemmell.html) His son, Andrew Gemmell was also an Olympian and a distance freestyle swimmer.
Yuri was her first coach, that got her to her first Olympics. After Katie's first Olympics, Yuri went on to coach the men's team at Cal. When Yuri left, Bruce Gemmell was brought in, specifically to coach Katie. He got her to her second Olympics.
And I wouldn't call NCAP a centrally run team, in fact far from it. Many of the sites are privately owned, very much like a franchise.
Most of sites are not franchises but some are. Most are used to fill Ugasts pockets.
Yuri was Katie’s coach and deserves a ton of credit for the work he did to get her to gold. He had to leave to run from the scandal and an opportunity with durden was hard to turn down. He’s been successful every step of way and it’s continuing at wisco.
Bruce certainly didn’t screw Katie up, she kept winning with him but he wasn’t the mastermind and she’s been with Meehan lately so Bruce just a small piece of the puzzle for her.
Anonymous
06/27/2021 20:07
Subject: Re:NCAP Locations - Different programs?
Anonymous wrote:Adding that at the HS level there are major differences between locations and it's not uncommon for kids to move to a new location depending on what their stroke and training preferences are. I wouldn't worry about that at your young age, but if folks are approaching HS age--do your homework. For instance, we've seen multiple breastrokers join the GPrep site, only to move elsewhere within a year or two. At the elite level, GPrep is all about distance free style, 400 IM, and tons of yardage. This type of training can "break breastroke" technique. Stroke specialists seem to prefer the AU site.
Your mixing things up with prep. Yuri, Rick Meghan were the 4IM mindset. It does work but it’s not for every swimmer.
Bruce is all about distance free. That’s at least what he claims he’s the guru for. He only caters to the lane leaders. If you aren’t a lane leader you will miss the interval and swim continuously and he’s fine with that. Only the top kids will get him accolades so the others might as well not exist to him
Anonymous
06/26/2021 00:03
Subject: NCAP Locations - Different programs?
This is right. Not all NCAP sites are the same. OP should talk to people on their summer swim team about where they swim year round. And just FYI, serious swimmers don't go to summer camp or travel a lot in the summer.
So if your kid is a serious swimmer both parents can’t work in the summers because you can’t enroll your kid in camp, and you can’t take family vacations 🙄 Maybe if you are Katie Ledecky (news flash you aren’t), but otherwise this is absurd.
Many, many kids over 12 or 13 don't go to summer camp anymore. If you live near a neighborhood pool, they can spend a couple of years hanging out at the neighborhood pool and doing whatever else you organize for them. By 15, they can be lifeguarding or working elsewhere. Plenty of younger kids go to camp and do swim team. Many swimming families also defer vacation until August because there are long course meets their kids are training for at the end of July or the first week in August. As your kids get older, you'll likely also schedule vacations around whatever activities are important to them.
All of this is a lot different than the blanket statement that “serious swimmers don’t go to summer camp or travel a lot in the summer”. If your kid is not HS age, it is not expected that a parent quit working in the summer or that there are no family vacations until August. Unless you are an elite level talent, family functions should not be completely at the whim of swim schedules, and I say this as a parent of a kid that loves swimming. The swim parent craziness in this area is next level.
It’s always a choice, but people are scheduling around sports, including swimming way before HS! We started vacationing in August when my oldest was 6. By the time she was 8, it was because of All Stars. When she was 9+ it was because of club swimming meets as well. “Swimmers vacation in August” is not an uncommon statement. When mine went to sleep away camp, that was also in August.
No one said we parents aren’t working the rest of the summer!