Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

No, if kids’ parents are able to pay for any additional pricey extra-curriculars, including additional sports coaching and music lessons on top of music lessons, it’s frowned upon, or should be. So, you desperately want your child to stand out amongst the rest, so you do whatever it takes to make that happen. As long as your child is the best, or one of best. Your kid is nothing special, as a matter of fact, if every child received equal hours of tutoring or coaching, your kid would be average at best. I think you’re too afraid to admit this to yourself.

Hmm... let me see if I understand this: are you saying no child should be given opportunities unless all children are given equal opportunities? Race to the bottom, right?

And moreover, are you saying that a parent who tries to give their child opportunities to better themselves is doing that not to in order to develop a kid's potential, but to stick it to other people?

You are doing it to stick it to other people, yes. Why is a full day of school for your average to above average child not enough? Why is an after school sports practice with the team not enough? Is 6 hours a day really not enough learning for your child? You are unintentionally, or intentionally, setting an unattainable standard for many of the other students whose parents cannot afford unnecessary tutoring. It’s unfair, can’t you see that? There are kids who actually need tutoring, they are barely scraping by, yet can’t afford a tutor. While your child, who does just fine on their own merits, needs a tutor to get further ahead, just because? It’s absurd.

Anonymous wrote:
It’s not only academics, as you suggest. Fine, if a kid adores math so much that he wants to go ahead in the book, fine, good. If your child loves reading mundane stories in the reading book provided, again, great. The issue is with the hiring of extra unnecessary help for the kids. As they say, you get what you pay for. If you pay for a tutor, even though your child is average and not struggling, you are guaranteed to see improvement. Your average kid will become above average. Miraculous :/ That can be said for anything, academics, sports, music, whatever.

To me this just means these kids, all of them, have a whole lot of untapped potential. Why aren't we talking about how to tap into that? Why isn't the discussion: hey, extra tutoring helps even mediocre kids get better, so seems like the schools should be improving their curriculum

My kids had private math tutoring this year and we’ll likely keep it. Public school education in this country is embarrassing so I think the money is well spent. I don’t have much faith that what they’re doing during the 8 hrs in school is worth much and paying $150k per year total for all kids in private is just not doable. So we stick with tutoring

Anonymous wrote:

No, if kids’ parents are able to pay for any additional pricey extra-curriculars, including additional sports coaching and music lessons on top of music lessons, it’s frowned upon, or should be. So, you desperately want your child to stand out amongst the rest, so you do whatever it takes to make that happen. As long as your child is the best, or one of best. Your kid is nothing special, as a matter of fact, if every child received equal hours of tutoring or coaching, your kid would be average at best. I think you’re too afraid to admit this to yourself.

Hmm... let me see if I understand this: are you saying no child should be given opportunities unless all children are given equal opportunities? Race to the bottom, right?

And moreover, are you saying that a parent who tries to give their child opportunities to better themselves is doing that not to in order to develop a kid's potential, but to stick it to other people?

Anonymous wrote:Europe is big, but in my corner of Europe kids who needed more help stayed after school and teacher tutored all of them regardless of SES. I stayed for math several times.

This is largely how the education system was in the US about 25-30 years ago. No one, except for the the bottom of the barrel, received tutoring. My teachers stayed after many times to assist students, or older students often volunteered to assist.

Anonymous wrote:It’s super savvy and culturally driven: in our MoCo hood the new Americans realized the poor level of instruction - and so did something about it. Hats off to them. I as a dumb fifth generation actually believed MCPS’ hype that ‘all the schools are good.’ No, MCPS invests in their magnet program because it’s the only thing the failing bureaucracy uses to justify a 3 billion budget. Evidence? There is absolutely no discussion in this county of ending/reforming magnet programs and equity. We have no similar discussion of ending/reforming Blair Magnet - the way TJ has reformed their admissions. This is the bigger scandal than cram school work from new Americans.

I don’t live in MoCo or anywhere near it, however this nonsense of paying for unnecessary tutoring and coaching is affecting my children as well. So, seems as if this is insidious and pervasive in many school districts throughout the country. We have schools with excellent ratings yet parents are compelled to hire tutors for average to above average students. Why? Well, because they want to be even better, to far surpass the mediocrity. Its the only plausible explanation. Why even attend school anymore, if you are just going to go ahead and pay someone to help set an unrealistic standard for the rest? It’s an unfair advantage.

Europe is big, but in my corner of Europe kids who needed more help stayed after school and teacher tutored all of them regardless of SES. I stayed for math several times.

It’s super savvy and culturally driven: in our MoCo hood the new Americans realized the poor level of instruction - and so did something about it. Hats off to them. I as a dumb fifth generation actually believed MCPS’ hype that ‘all the schools are good.’ No, MCPS invests in their magnet program because it’s the only thing the failing bureaucracy uses to justify a 3 billion budget. Evidence? There is absolutely no discussion in this county of ending/reforming magnet programs and equity. We have no similar discussion of ending/reforming Blair Magnet - the way TJ has reformed their admissions. This is the bigger scandal than cram school work from new Americans.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My DCs don’t have tutors (in 4th grade it’s a waste of money). But they learn the material before it’s taught in class. I had an Asian student in my HS who aced every single math test, and one day I noticed he had completed all the practice questions in the new unit we were starting. He told me he always did the whole chapter prior to class so that it was essentially review and practice (and he could ask questions if he didn’t understand something). I thought this was brilliant and honestly can’t believe no one else does this. Apparently, this is much more common in other cultures (learning the work before it is taught in class). I do it with my kids now and it is a much more effective way of learning.

Indeed, why bother with the teacher at all? She sounds superfluous.

sometimes I would agree. But the teachers are needed to hand out the materials and test the kids. I don't want to homeschool my kid.

DC is in a HS magnet. DC said DC mostly learned from the videos, presos that the teacher posted, and sometimes on Khan academy for math. DC hardly listened to the teachers drone on in zoom class. DC is a straight A student.

DC and the friends also self studied for AP exams though the materials were provided by the teachers. No tutoring.

When DC was in middle school, DC would do something similar to what ^^PP posted about the kid learning ahead. DC would do the same but mainly because DC was bored in class so DC would look ahead.

DC has never had a tutor.

I don't understand your snark here. Would you say the same thing about a kid who tried to play some music piece that the teacher hadn't covered? I bet you would be impressed by it.

But when it comes to academics, the learning ahead seems to trigger some people.

It’s not only academics, as you suggest. Fine, if a kid adores math so much that he wants to go ahead in the book, fine, good. If your child loves reading mundane stories in the reading book provided, again, great. The issue is with the hiring of extra unnecessary help for the kids. As they say, you get what you pay for. If you pay for a tutor, even though your child is average and not struggling, you are guaranteed to see improvement. Your average kid will become above average. Miraculous :/ That can be said for anything, academics, sports, music, whatever.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. I am not blaming the parents, but I find it unfortunate. I also realize this is a cultural phenomenon. Many of my kids classmates are from Asia and there it is much more common to have children do extra classes after school. I am from Europe where tutoring isn't as widespread and is most commonly used when children struggle with a certain subject. While I believe there is a small minority of kids that love math so much they want to do extra in their free time, in my experience it is very often driven by parents.

I don't find it unfortunate at all. A vibrant academic environment that teaches kids that learning is valued (and takes hard work!) is to be praised in my book.

Oh, and I'm from Europe too. And I grew up exposed to all sorts of academic competitions - many of my friends did math or physics olympiads, chess, and so on. And that required preparation outside school time. And it was integrated with play, etc, no big deal...

It's only in the US that if kids do extra music or sports or other extra-curriculars, it's praised, but if they do extra academic work, it's 'unfortunate'. Weird.

No, if kids’ parents are able to pay for any additional pricey extra-curriculars, including additional sports coaching and music lessons on top of music lessons, it’s frowned upon, or should be. So, you desperately want your child to stand out amongst the rest, so you do whatever it takes to make that happen. As long as your child is the best, or one of best. Your kid is nothing special, as a matter of fact, if every child received equal hours of tutoring or coaching, your kid would be average at best. I think you’re too afraid to admit this to yourself.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. I am not blaming the parents, but I find it unfortunate. I also realize this is a cultural phenomenon. Many of my kids classmates are from Asia and there it is much more common to have children do extra classes after school. I am from Europe where tutoring isn't as widespread and is most commonly used when children struggle with a certain subject. While I believe there is a small minority of kids that love math so much they want to do extra in their free time, in my experience it is very often driven by parents.

I don't find it unfortunate at all. A vibrant academic environment that teaches kids that learning is valued (and takes hard work!) is to be praised in my book.

Oh, and I'm from Europe too. And I grew up exposed to all sorts of academic competitions - many of my friends did math or physics olympiads, chess, and so on. And that required preparation outside school time. And it was integrated with play, etc, no big deal...

It's only in the US that if kids do extra music or sports or other extra-curriculars, it's praised, but if they do extra academic work, it's 'unfortunate'. Weird.

The major issue with this though, is that kids from certain demographics and cultures are benefiting from this tutoring or coaching while the rest of the kids just float along hoping that full time school is adequate. If and when they realize what’s actually happening, that many of the ‘smart’ kids are receiving additional schooling just because they can, they feel betrayed and unworthy because a) the educational system is a sham and b)their parents aren’t willing or able to pay for tutoring just to get a leg up on everyone else.

Anonymous wrote:OP here. I am not blaming the parents, but I find it unfortunate. I also realize this is a cultural phenomenon. Many of my kids classmates are from Asia and there it is much more common to have children do extra classes after school. I am from Europe where tutoring isn't as widespread and is most commonly used when children struggle with a certain subject. While I believe there is a small minority of kids that love math so much they want to do extra in their free time, in my experience it is very often driven by parents.

I am so very sick of the constant cut throat culture that exists with many young children today. Certain cultures and/or demographics are definitely more guilty of this than others. Had I known how pervasive this self serving academic mindset would be, I would have thought twice about having kids, honestly. If a child is not struggling there is absolutely no need for supplementation after school hours, especially in elementary school. An unwelcome precedent is being set with this absurdity. When a normal school day isn’t enough there’s either something seriously wrong or you are doing it to outdo the ‘competition’. School is now a game, a competition, this wasn’t always the case. School should be more of a marathon, a personal achievement, not who can outdo everyone else and score the highest on a standardized test by way of constantly cramming and being coached how to take tests.

Anonymous wrote:OP here. I am not blaming the parents, but I find it unfortunate. I also realize this is a cultural phenomenon. Many of my kids classmates are from Asia and there it is much more common to have children do extra classes after school. I am from Europe where tutoring isn't as widespread and is most commonly used when children struggle with a certain subject. While I believe there is a small minority of kids that love math so much they want to do extra in their free time, in my experience it is very often driven by parents.

I don't find it unfortunate at all. A vibrant academic environment that teaches kids that learning is valued (and takes hard work!) is to be praised in my book.

Oh, and I'm from Europe too. And I grew up exposed to all sorts of academic competitions - many of my friends did math or physics olympiads, chess, and so on. And that required preparation outside school time. And it was integrated with play, etc, no big deal...

It's only in the US that if kids do extra music or sports or other extra-curriculars, it's praised, but if they do extra academic work, it's 'unfortunate'. Weird.

OP here. I am not blaming the parents, but I find it unfortunate. I also realize this is a cultural phenomenon. Many of my kids classmates are from Asia and there it is much more common to have children do extra classes after school. I am from Europe where tutoring isn't as widespread and is most commonly used when children struggle with a certain subject. While I believe there is a small minority of kids that love math so much they want to do extra in their free time, in my experience it is very often driven by parents.

Reading ahead and being prepared for class is a great idea. Kids will have a better idea of where they need to pay attention and what questions to ask.

There are programs meant to “teach” the materials over the summer before the kids take the actual class. Some people may do those because they are concerned that the child will struggle and some people might do those because they want their kids to earn an A. Honestly, I don’t care. At some point in time the kids are going to be adults and have to navigate college and a job without their parents. I can see kids who have had too much support struggling because they didn’t learn to struggle, and lets face it, dealing with adversity is an important skill to learn.

I like AoPS and Russian School of Math because they intentionally build practice problems and test questions that they don’t think a kid can solve. They are trying to teach the kids to think creatively and that it is ok to try and still not get the right answer. Or that it is ok to try and work really hard to get the right answer. They don’t want the kids to coast.

I think that the parents who push sports coaches and summer classes to prep for school are more likely to have kids who burn out and stop working in that area. But each family has its own style.