Anonymous
06/10/2021 10:36
Subject: The mysterious marriage and dating market
"Other girls who are also pretty and have good jobs keep getting their heart broken and either find low quality partners or wind up single."
First off, most men don't care about your job, or your money. So stop leading with that. Men care first and foremost about your looks, if you're friendly and cooperative, and physically in shape. They want to be with women who smile, laugh and make their lives more peaceful instead of being another competitor. Women who treat them with basic civility and respect. If they want children, they are looking for a childless woman who shows signs of being a good, dedicated mother.
I know a lot of men who have left the dating scene because they cannot seem to find women who tick even half these boxes anymore.
These other women have been snapped up because they have tick all of these boxes, or at least most of them. So what are you doing wrong, OP, and how can you change it? Think about what men want.
First off, most men don't care about your job, or your money. So stop leading with that. Men care first and foremost about your looks, if you're friendly and cooperative, and physically in shape. They want to be with women who smile, laugh and make their lives more peaceful instead of being another competitor. Women who treat them with basic civility and respect. If they want children, they are looking for a childless woman who shows signs of being a good, dedicated mother.
I know a lot of men who have left the dating scene because they cannot seem to find women who tick even half these boxes anymore.
These other women have been snapped up because they have tick all of these boxes, or at least most of them. So what are you doing wrong, OP, and how can you change it? Think about what men want.
Anonymous
06/10/2021 10:35
Subject: Re:The mysterious marriage and dating market
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I have been mystified over this as well. I am what you would call a "good girl." I come from a nice family. I was raised with love and had a wonderful childhood. I didn't date until after college and only slept with the man who became my husband. I was looking for the whole package. Kind, smart, driven and from a good family too. I dated for marriage in my twenties.
And yet...not one guy who I would consider "high quality" chased me or showed interest in me. I worked in the NGO space so I guess I never ran into many guys anyway. I met my now husband at a think tank happy hour. I thought he had everything I was looking for. I ignored some red flags as he was the only guy to ever show me interest. 5 years in, he turned out to be an abusive, cheating drunk who cannot keep a job.
I feel like a fool. My life is a joke. I did everything right and it blew up in my face. What do you do when you just aren't desirable to the desirable guys?
After you leave him, you can start figuring out what you like and asking men out. The sooner you start the more time you'll have.
PP here. It was sort of a self-fulfilling prophecy. I wasn't broken or dysfunctional. In fact, I knew exactly what kind of man I wanted. But those guys would never show interest in me! At all! So...it killed my self esteem and I thought ok...they are clearly out of my league so I should go for someone who DOES want me, even if he drinks too much and comes from an abusive family. He has other great qualities! And overtime...his bad qualities just magnified. Now I am terrified to leave because if the guys I wanted never wanted me at my peak at 25...how can I possibly do well at 35?
Because you're going to do some therapy and be more self-aware and self-confident. You may find what you want has changed based on this set of experiences. And you're going to be willing to do more of the work of showing interest in THEM.
There's someone out there who would be nice to you. Nice to you is better than abusive and cheating, regardless of whatever other qualities these guys have.
Your problem was you were looking for a “package” rather than a person. Comes from “good family”? “Driven”, ie makes lots of money? So many superficial expectations. And listen, it’s kinda sounds like you aren’t that hot, which means your superficial expectations are thwarted by men’s superficial expectations
You should have dated in college as you would have learned more about men.
PP here. I definitely do not think I am very conventionally attractive as I was never pursued by guys even in my youth. I am slender but have a large crooked nose.
Anonymous
06/10/2021 10:35
Subject: The mysterious marriage and dating market
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:OP your problem is a vanishingly small percentage of men make over $150k, and they can date women younger and prettier than you. Unless you are in the right circles at the right age, you have to settle for some dork Fed or something.
??? I’m in my 30s and live in the DC metro area and I doubt I know a man here who makes less than $150k.
1) you don’t know any teachers, NGO workers, GS14 Feds? Only lawyers and lobbyists?
2) all those 30s men are looking at 20s women
She’s lying. And it doesn’t mean much when one is making 150k and have student debt to pay off.
Anonymous
06/10/2021 10:27
Subject: The mysterious marriage and dating market
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:OP your problem is a vanishingly small percentage of men make over $150k, and they can date women younger and prettier than you. Unless you are in the right circles at the right age, you have to settle for some dork Fed or something.
??? I’m in my 30s and live in the DC metro area and I doubt I know a man here who makes less than $150k.
1) you don’t know any teachers, NGO workers, GS14 Feds? Only lawyers and lobbyists?
2) all those 30s men are looking at 20s women
DP. I know very few men married to younger women (I'm 38 and most of our friends are married). I don't think this is the norm in professional circles. The couples I know are virtually all within four years of each other, and among my college friends the woman is just as likely to be slightly older. I know zero couples with a 10-year age gap.
Anonymous
06/10/2021 10:27
Subject: Re:The mysterious marriage and dating market
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I have been mystified over this as well. I am what you would call a "good girl." I come from a nice family. I was raised with love and had a wonderful childhood. I didn't date until after college and only slept with the man who became my husband. I was looking for the whole package. Kind, smart, driven and from a good family too. I dated for marriage in my twenties.
And yet...not one guy who I would consider "high quality" chased me or showed interest in me. I worked in the NGO space so I guess I never ran into many guys anyway. I met my now husband at a think tank happy hour. I thought he had everything I was looking for. I ignored some red flags as he was the only guy to ever show me interest. 5 years in, he turned out to be an abusive, cheating drunk who cannot keep a job.
I feel like a fool. My life is a joke. I did everything right and it blew up in my face. What do you do when you just aren't desirable to the desirable guys?
After you leave him, you can start figuring out what you like and asking men out. The sooner you start the more time you'll have.
PP here. It was sort of a self-fulfilling prophecy. I wasn't broken or dysfunctional. In fact, I knew exactly what kind of man I wanted. But those guys would never show interest in me! At all! So...it killed my self esteem and I thought ok...they are clearly out of my league so I should go for someone who DOES want me, even if he drinks too much and comes from an abusive family. He has other great qualities! And overtime...his bad qualities just magnified. Now I am terrified to leave because if the guys I wanted never wanted me at my peak at 25...how can I possibly do well at 35?
Because you're going to do some therapy and be more self-aware and self-confident. You may find what you want has changed based on this set of experiences. And you're going to be willing to do more of the work of showing interest in THEM.
There's someone out there who would be nice to you. Nice to you is better than abusive and cheating, regardless of whatever other qualities these guys have.
Your problem was you were looking for a “package” rather than a person. Comes from “good family”? “Driven”, ie makes lots of money? So many superficial expectations. And listen, it’s kinda sounds like you aren’t that hot, which means your superficial expectations are thwarted by men’s superficial expectations
You should have dated in college as you would have learned more about men.
Anonymous
06/10/2021 10:22
Subject: The mysterious marriage and dating market
I had a bad picker. Parent’s bad marriage set me up for picking the right guys. So I just wasn’t attracted to guys tgat were good for me. I was never attracted to bad boys. Most of the guys I dated were good guys, just not right for me. I’m still friends with most of my ex’s. And I’m happy to see they found the right partners.
Plus no one explained to me that dating someone was a processes to see if you both are compatible for marriage. I thought “I like you, you like me” let’s date. Then “I love you, you love me” let’s expend every ounce of energy to make this thing work.
Took decades of therapy and self help books, plus a life altering thing in my 30’s to change my picker. I luckily found the right guy for me in my late 30’s. He was divorced but no kids.
Plus no one explained to me that dating someone was a processes to see if you both are compatible for marriage. I thought “I like you, you like me” let’s date. Then “I love you, you love me” let’s expend every ounce of energy to make this thing work.
Took decades of therapy and self help books, plus a life altering thing in my 30’s to change my picker. I luckily found the right guy for me in my late 30’s. He was divorced but no kids.
Anonymous
06/10/2021 10:22
Subject: The mysterious marriage and dating market
Much of it is about having a very strong sense of self and self worth. Many of thE women I know who are very happily married has that foundation of being very important to their family, taught to value themselves and their role as a wife and a mother. Not all, but many. I didn’t have that and it’s been harder for me. Looking back, I had all the ability - pretty, good body, great job, smart, highly paid, all the options, chose a good guy, and am married, happily, but it’s been a hard road due to the lack of strong sense of who I am and where I fit. Sometimes I envy those silly “wife life” Instagram type people. Satisfaction has been harder for me.
Anonymous
06/10/2021 10:21
Subject: The mysterious marriage and dating market
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:OP your problem is a vanishingly small percentage of men make over $150k, and they can date women younger and prettier than you. Unless you are in the right circles at the right age, you have to settle for some dork Fed or something.
??? I’m in my 30s and live in the DC metro area and I doubt I know a man here who makes less than $150k.
1) you don’t know any teachers, NGO workers, GS14 Feds? Only lawyers and lobbyists?
2) all those 30s men are looking at 20s women
I met my incredibly kind, tall, dark, and handsome big law associate boyfriend at age 32. So, no, they're not all looking at 20s women.
From experience with friends, I do think dating during ages 34-36 starts to get much more difficult if you want to find a good guy without kids from a previous marriage.
Exception does not prove the rule. And you were 2 years away from running out your OWN clock.
Anonymous
06/10/2021 10:21
Subject: Re:The mysterious marriage and dating market
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I have been mystified over this as well. I am what you would call a "good girl." I come from a nice family. I was raised with love and had a wonderful childhood. I didn't date until after college and only slept with the man who became my husband. I was looking for the whole package. Kind, smart, driven and from a good family too. I dated for marriage in my twenties.
And yet...not one guy who I would consider "high quality" chased me or showed interest in me. I worked in the NGO space so I guess I never ran into many guys anyway. I met my now husband at a think tank happy hour. I thought he had everything I was looking for. I ignored some red flags as he was the only guy to ever show me interest. 5 years in, he turned out to be an abusive, cheating drunk who cannot keep a job.
I feel like a fool. My life is a joke. I did everything right and it blew up in my face. What do you do when you just aren't desirable to the desirable guys?
After you leave him, you can start figuring out what you like and asking men out. The sooner you start the more time you'll have.
PP here. It was sort of a self-fulfilling prophecy. I wasn't broken or dysfunctional. In fact, I knew exactly what kind of man I wanted. But those guys would never show interest in me! At all! So...it killed my self esteem and I thought ok...they are clearly out of my league so I should go for someone who DOES want me, even if he drinks too much and comes from an abusive family. He has other great qualities! And overtime...his bad qualities just magnified. Now I am terrified to leave because if the guys I wanted never wanted me at my peak at 25...how can I possibly do well at 35?
Because you're going to do some therapy and be more self-aware and self-confident. You may find what you want has changed based on this set of experiences. And you're going to be willing to do more of the work of showing interest in THEM.
There's someone out there who would be nice to you. Nice to you is better than abusive and cheating, regardless of whatever other qualities these guys have.
Anonymous
06/10/2021 10:18
Subject: Re:The mysterious marriage and dating market
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I have been mystified over this as well. I am what you would call a "good girl." I come from a nice family. I was raised with love and had a wonderful childhood. I didn't date until after college and only slept with the man who became my husband. I was looking for the whole package. Kind, smart, driven and from a good family too. I dated for marriage in my twenties.
And yet...not one guy who I would consider "high quality" chased me or showed interest in me. I worked in the NGO space so I guess I never ran into many guys anyway. I met my now husband at a think tank happy hour. I thought he had everything I was looking for. I ignored some red flags as he was the only guy to ever show me interest. 5 years in, he turned out to be an abusive, cheating drunk who cannot keep a job.
I feel like a fool. My life is a joke. I did everything right and it blew up in my face. What do you do when you just aren't desirable to the desirable guys?
After you leave him, you can start figuring out what you like and asking men out. The sooner you start the more time you'll have.
PP here. It was sort of a self-fulfilling prophecy. I wasn't broken or dysfunctional. In fact, I knew exactly what kind of man I wanted. But those guys would never show interest in me! At all! So...it killed my self esteem and I thought ok...they are clearly out of my league so I should go for someone who DOES want me, even if he drinks too much and comes from an abusive family. He has other great qualities! And overtime...his bad qualities just magnified. Now I am terrified to leave because if the guys I wanted never wanted me at my peak at 25...how can I possibly do well at 35?
Anonymous
06/10/2021 10:11
Subject: Re:The mysterious marriage and dating market
Anonymous wrote:I have been mystified over this as well. I am what you would call a "good girl." I come from a nice family. I was raised with love and had a wonderful childhood. I didn't date until after college and only slept with the man who became my husband. I was looking for the whole package. Kind, smart, driven and from a good family too. I dated for marriage in my twenties.
And yet...not one guy who I would consider "high quality" chased me or showed interest in me. I worked in the NGO space so I guess I never ran into many guys anyway. I met my now husband at a think tank happy hour. I thought he had everything I was looking for. I ignored some red flags as he was the only guy to ever show me interest. 5 years in, he turned out to be an abusive, cheating drunk who cannot keep a job.
I feel like a fool. My life is a joke. I did everything right and it blew up in my face. What do you do when you just aren't desirable to the desirable guys?
After you leave him, you can start figuring out what you like and asking men out. The sooner you start the more time you'll have.
Anonymous
06/10/2021 10:03
Subject: Re:The mysterious marriage and dating market
I have been mystified over this as well. I am what you would call a "good girl." I come from a nice family. I was raised with love and had a wonderful childhood. I didn't date until after college and only slept with the man who became my husband. I was looking for the whole package. Kind, smart, driven and from a good family too. I dated for marriage in my twenties.
And yet...not one guy who I would consider "high quality" chased me or showed interest in me. I worked in the NGO space so I guess I never ran into many guys anyway. I met my now husband at a think tank happy hour. I thought he had everything I was looking for. I ignored some red flags as he was the only guy to ever show me interest. 5 years in, he turned out to be an abusive, cheating drunk who cannot keep a job.
I feel like a fool. My life is a joke. I did everything right and it blew up in my face. What do you do when you just aren't desirable to the desirable guys?
And yet...not one guy who I would consider "high quality" chased me or showed interest in me. I worked in the NGO space so I guess I never ran into many guys anyway. I met my now husband at a think tank happy hour. I thought he had everything I was looking for. I ignored some red flags as he was the only guy to ever show me interest. 5 years in, he turned out to be an abusive, cheating drunk who cannot keep a job.
I feel like a fool. My life is a joke. I did everything right and it blew up in my face. What do you do when you just aren't desirable to the desirable guys?
Anonymous
06/10/2021 09:52
Subject: The mysterious marriage and dating market
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Calling it a “market” is one of your problems.
Don’t kid yourself, it is. I used to live in San Francisco. I knew dozens of amazing, accomplished women. All single. Meanwhile, every shlubby under-employed guy who wanted a girlfriend had one. It was not a good place to live for a woman who wanted marriage and a family. Took me years to open my eyes and see the writing on the wall. I moved back to the east coast and dated more guys that first year than I had in years in SF. If you want certain things in life, like a spouse and a family, you have to be clear-eyed about what it will take to get that. You have to work on yourself, to be emotionally ready to be someone’s partner, and you have to put yourself in places where you’ll meet quality people who could be a match. It’s not “romantic”, but it’s real.
Most of the couples we know found each other at 30+. Lots of people with intellectual or interesting careers spend their 20s training and learning and don’t really grow into relationships until their 30s.
Anonymous
06/10/2021 09:50
Subject: The mysterious marriage and dating market
Anonymous wrote:Calling it a “market” is one of your problems.
Exactly my reaction.
Anonymous
06/10/2021 09:48
Subject: Re:The mysterious marriage and dating market
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Some of it is timing, luck and circumstance but sitting here at age 45 and reflecting back and seeing which amazing women I know that never found the right partner, the common denominator was this:
They spent time in dead end relationships at ages 22-28. Maybe I get flamed for this but those are the peak dating years for women, and after that the supply of good, eligible men shrinks dramatically and the ones that are left (attractive, successful men in their early 30s) rule the dating market and date younger.
Totally agree with this. This is your window. Treat dating seriously as your other full time job during this time and be picky - don’t settle and don’t date just to have fun. Don’t waste time on losers.
Women are such succubus’s if all they’re looking for is money.
It’s succubi, you troglodyte.