This is OP, and I just want to give a huge thank you to all the PPs who have taken the time to explain the history of the situation -- so much of this is stuff I've heard referenced and discussed in the neighborhood and on these boards, but often the assumption is that everyone knows it all and I don't. I didn't really pay that much attention until we had a baby and even then, honestly, I don't think I really started thinking critically about it until she was 2 and this became imminent. Ridiculous, I know, but as a PP said -- I was naive and just had no experience with this kind of complexity around school choice because I grew up somewhere that everyone just went to their in-boundary schools and that was it. I had no idea.

One question that is still lingering for me (I mean, a lot of questions still but most things have been at least touched on):

We know that Trinidad is in Ward 5 and that the school there (Wheatley) is a K-8 and is not particularly well regarded. A teacher friend of ours who has been in DCPS for a long time actually specifically warned us against K-8s in general, which she thinks have a harder time turning around because so many resources go to support the MS age kids and in a struggling school, all the parents who have an option leave before MS.

However, I see Wheatley feeds to Dunbar in Ward 5 and I feel like I never hear anything about Dunbar as a high school option. I've driven by it and the facility looks nice, but I don't know anyone with a kid there or know anything about it. I'm still not sure how I feel about Wheatley (with housing prices going up up up in Trinidad, it seems like it will have to improve and retain more parents? maybe that's naive), but given the angst around Eastern, could buying in Trinidad and going to Dunbar be one option for families who want to stay Hill-adjacent but are worried about MS/HS.

Sorry if this is a dumb question. I just haven't seen it discussed, even though from a real estate perspective, Trinidad has become a really desirable option if you want to be close to H Street but can't quite afford the Capitol Hill prices.

Anonymous wrote:I think this could have turned out differently if all of the Hill elementary schools fed to one middle school, not 3.

Yep. But that’s “racist” too.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:SH had a wonderful principal for a few years but he left a year ago I think. Big loss for DCPS. Not sure how things are going with his replacement.

Principal Fraser had big shoes to fill and he has done an amazing job this past year, especially given the pandemic and DCPS cohort restrictions.

.

Good to hear. I hope he does well. He used to be principal at Anacostia HS before he came to SH.

Anonymous wrote:A lot of the problem, as I see it, is that the best way to improve the schools in general and get batter return on investment would be to track. And that is anathema and is considered to be racist, even though we should be beyond the time of when white administrators placed only white children in such programs. Shouldn't DCPS be able to do this equitably in 2021 with POC in charge?

When your child is at or above grade level in 4th grade and the lone teacher is supposed to be teaching all the children where they are, you know what happens? The teacher spends a lot of time trying to fix the past mistakes that have led to 9 year olds reading/writing at a 1st grade level - so then there is little time given to teaching the student who are ready to learn new things. All my child did in 4th grade was read Harry Potter books, which the teacher was fine with since DC wasn't causing problems and tested well - even though DC could have used a lot more support in math.

So you play the lottery and leave for a charter. And find out how much your "smart" kid doesn't know in math and science and history.

You all need to brush up on Hobson v. Hansen, and why the type of tracking you seek is unlawful in DC. I'm tired of the white parents hand-wringing. I've sent two kids through SH to competitive high schools (one public and one private). We are IB, Cluster family.

Anonymous wrote:SH had a wonderful principal for a few years but he left a year ago I think. Big loss for DCPS. Not sure how things are going with his replacement.

Principal Fraser had big shoes to fill and he has done an amazing job this past year, especially given the pandemic and DCPS cohort restrictions.

I think this could have turned out differently if all of the Hill elementary schools fed to one middle school, not 3.

A lot of the problem, as I see it, is that the best way to improve the schools in general and get batter return on investment would be to track. And that is anathema and is considered to be racist, even though we should be beyond the time of when white administrators placed only white children in such programs. Shouldn't DCPS be able to do this equitably in 2021 with POC in charge?

When your child is at or above grade level in 4th grade and the lone teacher is supposed to be teaching all the children where they are, you know what happens? The teacher spends a lot of time trying to fix the past mistakes that have led to 9 year olds reading/writing at a 1st grade level - so then there is little time given to teaching the student who are ready to learn new things. All my child did in 4th grade was read Harry Potter books, which the teacher was fine with since DC wasn't causing problems and tested well - even though DC could have used a lot more support in math.

So you play the lottery and leave for a charter. And find out how much your "smart" kid doesn't know in math and science and history.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because everyone on the hill leaves those elementary schools by 3rd grade, if not sooner, so in theory those could all be great schools if these obnoxious parents that are so reoccupied with "education" aka all white schools would just keep their kids in their in bound school with their grade cohort of kids and they get better over time. No one wants to be the test dummy so no one stays, it's a vicious cycle and its killing DCPS. Charters are a total joke and robbing public schools of resources and the kids they could bring in to continuously improve. I don't live on the hill, but rather in petworth but have several friends on the hill and its the same whining and everyone scratching their head when in reality, its that the wealthy or even normal by this areas standards well meaning parents of white kids leave. Period. It's causing me so much frustration in my own area because my childrens cohort of parents keep saying we love the area, we like the school but yeah we gotta move before middle, and it's like hmm i think if everyone stayed we'd be just fine. If you figure out a solution let me know.

Tbh, many parents are happy when those obnoxious white parents leave. One of the things that makes SH a great school is that the vibe is really relaxed and much more friendly, mostly because those white parents have left.

You all can keep your heads in the sand as you see fit, but with a socioeconomic chasm like the one dc has, and the inequity that follows every facet of it, it’s no surprise that rich parents don’t want to send their kids to Eastern for high school etc. it’s the same answer to the this thread which is posted ad nauseum. There are just too many poor kids from broken homes because of previous inequity, who aren’t on grade, or have potential behavioral issues and all the rest, so rich folks want kids who don’t have those issues and leave.

exactly. blaming individual white parents for their choices to avoid the ingoing consequences of institutional racism is pointless. the Hill completely “flipping” Eastern and Stuart Hobson would do nothing to improve schools in Ward 7 and 8; and it would take away the incremental improvement available to OOB students in those schools currently.

+100. The OP indicated (I thought) that she had young kids. If you are anything like me, you were naive, and thought XX neighborhood/school would miraculously change or improve by the time your son/daughter got to middle school. Time flies and your are me; your kid is on the cusp of middle school. Nothing has really changed—not enough. You are tired and worn out. There are simply better educational opportunities elsewhere that you can access; and your child is tired of going to school with many students who have severe behavioral issues. So you jump. Its pretty simple.

SH had a wonderful principal for a few years but he left a year ago I think. Big loss for DCPS. Not sure how things are going with his replacement.

Anonymous wrote:Ferebee firing the principal of JO Wilson and trying to make it seem like he resigned.

Firing the principal of Walls for not following the party line on COVID and trying to make it seem like he did some.minor bad thing years ago that justified it.

Basically 90% of the people I dealt with at the central office were morons or just didn't come to work at all. And a lot of the admin staff at our school.

Also, if you are active with school stuff and go to meetings with DCPS leadership, you will walk away thoroughly underwhelmed. You will lose confidence that these bozos care enough or are creative enough to solve complex educational problems. All they care about are optics so they can put out press releases. You will hear from your principal and teachers what a nightmare central office staff is and that rather than helping, they make the jobs of teachers and principals much harder. Then you will do some research into OSSE and realize it is full of political appointees of the mayor and council - folks who don’t know much or care about urban education. Finally, you will also learn that UDC community college and the 4-year campus are riddled with problems and that the two campuses (CC and 4 year) barely even communicate with each other. At this point you give up as you also have a stressful full time job and it all becomes just too much.

Anonymous wrote:OP, you will come to understand. After so many years trying to improve Hill elementary schools, many parents are just burnt out and disillusioned when it is time for middle school. The schools have a lot of high-needs kids, yes, but also DCPS itself is profoundly corrupt, secretive, hostile, and generally f*cked-up in its culture at the central office and in the schools. It's not just the kids or the demographics. This thread is a great example: https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/210/801530.page

Add to that low academic performance, problematic behaviors, and the concern of parents about getting into selective high schools and colleges and of their children being happy and enjoying school and being engaged and challenged, and it's a lot. DCPS will tell you that teachers can differentiate instruction for students of many levels, but there are kids in high school classes working at the elementary level and frankly nobody believes that much differentiation can be done effectively. The test scores at Eastern are alarmingly low and it's very very hard to believe the teachers and the instruction are solid when so few kids are even scoring on grade level.

Is progress possible? Sure. Stuart-Hobson is a great example of a school people were once unwilling to attend but now many families choose it. But it took about 20 years of effort to get there. Don't think this stuff is easy, it's not, and DCPS is often its own worst enemy.

I agree with this post. I am worn out and don’t trust DCPS anymore

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because everyone on the hill leaves those elementary schools by 3rd grade, if not sooner, so in theory those could all be great schools if these obnoxious parents that are so reoccupied with "education" aka all white schools would just keep their kids in their in bound school with their grade cohort of kids and they get better over time. No one wants to be the test dummy so no one stays, it's a vicious cycle and its killing DCPS. Charters are a total joke and robbing public schools of resources and the kids they could bring in to continuously improve. I don't live on the hill, but rather in petworth but have several friends on the hill and its the same whining and everyone scratching their head when in reality, its that the wealthy or even normal by this areas standards well meaning parents of white kids leave. Period. It's causing me so much frustration in my own area because my childrens cohort of parents keep saying we love the area, we like the school but yeah we gotta move before middle, and it's like hmm i think if everyone stayed we'd be just fine. If you figure out a solution let me know.

Tbh, many parents are happy when those obnoxious white parents leave. One of the things that makes SH a great school is that the vibe is really relaxed and much more friendly, mostly because those white parents have left.

You all can keep your heads in the sand as you see fit, but with a socioeconomic chasm like the one dc has, and the inequity that follows every facet of it, it’s no surprise that rich parents don’t want to send their kids to Eastern for high school etc. it’s the same answer to the this thread which is posted ad nauseum. There are just too many poor kids from broken homes because of previous inequity, who aren’t on grade, or have potential behavioral issues and all the rest, so rich folks want kids who don’t have those issues and leave.

exactly. blaming individual white parents for their choices to avoid the ingoing consequences of institutional racism is pointless. the Hill completely “flipping” Eastern and Stuart Hobson would do nothing to improve schools in Ward 7 and 8; and it would take away the incremental improvement available to OOB students in those schools currently.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When my kid was 3, I assumed that the middle school situation on the hill would have changed by the time we got to middle school. It has not. I have watched as my neighbors kids have left to charters, moved away, etc. By third grade, all of the hill neighborhood kids we started with were gone.

I think it’s lack of confidence that DCPS hill middle schools will provide a rigorous enough middle school experience that, should you end up having to pull out for high school, your kid will not be behind their peers. And the truth is, when you have kids who are behind academically, your kid probably WILL be behind if you end up moving to a suburban school for high school. Middle school is a dead end on the hill, and not everyone will get into Walls, so it’s a real concern.

I think this is a good analysis but also so, so sad on many levels. It's basically a very dumb problem that could be solved via collective action, but there is so little willingness to try. On the one hand I get it because when it's your kid, no one wants to be a guinea pig. And on the other hand, omg it is so dumb how so many people on the Hill move or send their kids to charters/privates all over town rather than just collectively choosing to stick around a let their kids go to neighborhood schools. Like it incredibly dumb and inefficient and ultimately bad for just about everyone.

It's not that dumb, tbh. By the time your kid reaches 4th grade, you probably will realize that the way your kid learns best might not be the way his/her friends do. Latin/Basis/Two Rivers/Stuart Hobson are all very different schools. I knew that for my kid, Basis would be a great fit, while Latin was a perfect fit for his best friend. Stuart Hobson wouldn't have fit either kid well. That's what makes having the options really great, and what lots of parents think about if they've decided to stay in DC for middle school.

I wonder if NW DC had easy access to as many charters as the Hill does, whether you'd see a bunch of people not going to a very over-crowded Deal.

Doubt it; the neighborhood restrictions at deal (and all the feeders) means that there are very low numbers for lower-socio economic kids, that could get into the charters... Now, maybe Hardy would have never 'come back' if this was true in that catchment area (lots of BASIS/Latin/Private until recently in lower Ward 3/West Ward 2)

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because everyone on the hill leaves those elementary schools by 3rd grade, if not sooner, so in theory those could all be great schools if these obnoxious parents that are so reoccupied with "education" aka all white schools would just keep their kids in their in bound school with their grade cohort of kids and they get better over time. No one wants to be the test dummy so no one stays, it's a vicious cycle and its killing DCPS. Charters are a total joke and robbing public schools of resources and the kids they could bring in to continuously improve. I don't live on the hill, but rather in petworth but have several friends on the hill and its the same whining and everyone scratching their head when in reality, its that the wealthy or even normal by this areas standards well meaning parents of white kids leave. Period. It's causing me so much frustration in my own area because my childrens cohort of parents keep saying we love the area, we like the school but yeah we gotta move before middle, and it's like hmm i think if everyone stayed we'd be just fine. If you figure out a solution let me know.

Tbh, many parents are happy when those obnoxious white parents leave. One of the things that makes SH a great school is that the vibe is really relaxed and much more friendly, mostly because those white parents have left.

You all can keep your heads in the sand as you see fit, but with a socioeconomic chasm like the one dc has, and the inequity that follows every facet of it, it’s no surprise that rich parents don’t want to send their kids to Eastern for high school etc. it’s the same answer to the this thread which is posted ad nauseum. There are just too many poor kids from broken homes because of previous inequity, who aren’t on grade, or have potential behavioral issues and all the rest, so rich folks want kids who don’t have those issues and leave.

This is a good roundup and even has a page of the report dedicated to Capitol Hill:

https://apps.urban.org/features/OurChangingCity/schools/index.html#index