Anonymous wrote:
I'm not familiar with this sport. There are no difficult routines on bars that have been accomplished out of competition that could be equivalent to Simone's Yurchenko move? Routines that would even the playing field as far as points go if accomplished? Or is it that no one is skilled enough in bars to accomplish these routines?

Theoretically, it’s open ended scoring so someone could always add skills and be able to do it. But in 2012 when the US team was stacked with 2.5 twisting yurchenkos (previously one of the two top rated vaults being performed by females - the other having a half twist onto the table and front 1.5 twist off) there was seemingly some scoring advantage towards vaulters. Which was favorable for us because we tend to have athletes that are the best vaulters in the world.

After 2012 the 2.5 twist was devalued and it was devalued again after 2016. Other things were changed as well on other events to try to somewhat align the scores. With an open ended scoring code there’s going to be a constant rebalancing process I guess, when you’re having an “all around” competition. So things have to be considered or it’s not really going to be an all around competition. So in some ways all this hasn’t been directed at Simone but was kind of already happening. There was a specific instance of lowballing a beam dismount Simone did and giving the justification that it’s dangerous. As I said I never saw the logic in that. I think outliers should be permitted. It’s more the general distribution that needs to be looked at. And if something is judged to be legitimately unsafe due to equipment limitations, it just shouldn’t be allowed period. Or equipment specifications should be reviewed, as always, if there are adjustments that can reduce common injuries.

The concept of an open ended scoring all around competition is “relatively” new to gymnastics and really only exists for women in elite competition. Men’s gymnastics has it at more levels, NCAA, developmental, etc but they also have more events so maybe that’s an equalizer itself? Don’t really know. In every other level of women’s competition, and in women’s international elite competition prior to 2005, the top score is the same on all events for everyone (a 10) there is a bonus system to get up to a potential 10 but it caps out. So would Simone do this vault if she could only get a 10 for it and someone else could do a 2.5 twist and also get a 10? It’s a good question. Simone would have most likely won vault this weekend doing the 2.5 twist as well. And the AA. So I guess in that respect she did the double pike for her own reasons anyway.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What do you all think of this? I think if a female competitor can accomplish this effortlessly and safely it should be qualified with full points.

It is generally dangerous but she can do it. I don’t really think that there’s going to be an issue with others recklessly attempting it, but on the issue of the double double off beam I fell on the side of either it’s dangerous and ban it or give it a consistent value. I don’t think the “we don’t want to overvalue it because it’s dangerous” argument made much sense. We’ve also seen some really scary falls with athletes attempting double pikes off beam but it’s all been allowed or encouraged so far. Katelyn Ohashi’s foot slipped on a beam dismount (when she was at UCLA), one of the scariest falls I’ve ever personally seen, was totally mishandled in my opinion, luckily she was relatively okay.

If something is dangerous they have to ban it or change the structure to favor connections and consistency (Simone would still win, maybe not by wide margins). Lowballing the value doesn’t really seem to address that issue to me.

On the vault value I haven’t seen as much, I did think it would be higher than a 6.6 (? I think) but there was already a wider issue after 2012 with vault values giving an inherent advantage in the AA to those whose best event is vault since you could achieve scores that weren’t really being seen on say, bars. I did think there was some argument there, the score distributions should be roughly equivalent across the events for AA purposes, unless someone is an outlier like Simone. But if multiple people are getting scores that you really can’t get on another event, that should be aligned. That’s why the previous “top vaults” were devalued. A 16.1 is going to be untouchable on vault as it is. If she gets a 16 at Tokyo, that will probably be the only one in the entire competition.

I'm not familiar with this sport. There are no difficult routines on bars that have been accomplished out of competition that could be equivalent to Simone's Yurchenko move? Routines that would even the playing field as far as points go if accomplished? Or is it that no one is skilled enough in bars to accomplish these routines?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's awesome. I hate that they kept saying it was "unbelievable." It was TOALLY believable. What i can't believe is that there were so many girls around her and not one of them was like "hey, lemme fix your hair for you." I don't think Simone meant for it to look like that, based on how her hair always looks.

Is Laurie Hernandez not in this meet? I don't see her anywhere.

Don’t start this BS about her hair again. No one is looking at her hair.

Seriously. I really hope that PP is not raising daughters.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I find Simone Biles fascinating because she's such an unreal athlete yet seems like she has a normal personal life (which for anyone who follows gymnastics knows how crazy things can get). She has a long-term boyfriend, she goes on vacation, drinks alcohol, etc etc. and yet performs on a world-class level time and time again. It's astonishing.

I think the sport has changed a lot for the better with the removal of the karolyis and their staff and their eastern European style of training the national team at the Karolyi ranch--and their favoring of younger girls who fit into a certain body type. It sadly took hundreds of girls being molested and/or abused .

The current crop of gymnasts--Morgan Hurd, Sunisa Lee, Jade Carey etc. are older and all seem to have normal personal lives.

Totally agree! And there are so many vibrant, exciting collegiate programs.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I could see her continuing as a vault specialist down the road like Oksana chusovitiba who is in her 40s.

Former elite gymnast here (who is in awe of Biles and never had those skills). I think she is ready to be done. The vaults Biles does are in a different stratosphere and take a much higher toll on the body. I don’t see her being willing to water down her skills just to keep competing. She has been pretty vocal that she almost quit several times last year. I think she’s done after this.

I think she has mentioned keeping up as a specialist.

I really think Simone has changed the sport. The skills she's pulling require muscle strength and conditioning that isn't possible in a 15/16 yo. It takes years more to develop that strength.

I think the top condenders are going to skew older (18-23 yo) instead of younger (14-17 yo) going forward. China used to fudge the age of some of their gymnasts, seeking an advantage. I'm curious to see the age of the China team this time and if younger is still viewed as better.

I also wonder if this will trickle down in the US so younger athletes save their body and sanity to peak at an older age.

Anonymous wrote:What do you all think of this? I think if a female competitor can accomplish this effortlessly and safely it should be qualified with full points.

It is generally dangerous but she can do it. I don’t really think that there’s going to be an issue with others recklessly attempting it, but on the issue of the double double off beam I fell on the side of either it’s dangerous and ban it or give it a consistent value. I don’t think the “we don’t want to overvalue it because it’s dangerous” argument made much sense. We’ve also seen some really scary falls with athletes attempting double pikes off beam but it’s all been allowed or encouraged so far. Katelyn Ohashi’s foot slipped on a beam dismount (when she was at UCLA), one of the scariest falls I’ve ever personally seen, was totally mishandled in my opinion, luckily she was relatively okay.

If something is dangerous they have to ban it or change the structure to favor connections and consistency (Simone would still win, maybe not by wide margins). Lowballing the value doesn’t really seem to address that issue to me.

On the vault value I haven’t seen as much, I did think it would be higher than a 6.6 (? I think) but there was already a wider issue after 2012 with vault values giving an inherent advantage in the AA to those whose best event is vault since you could achieve scores that weren’t really being seen on say, bars. I did think there was some argument there, the score distributions should be roughly equivalent across the events for AA purposes, unless someone is an outlier like Simone. But if multiple people are getting scores that you really can’t get on another event, that should be aligned. That’s why the previous “top vaults” were devalued. A 16.1 is going to be untouchable on vault as it is. If she gets a 16 at Tokyo, that will probably be the only one in the entire competition.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I find Simone Biles fascinating because she's such an unreal athlete yet seems like she has a normal personal life (which for anyone who follows gymnastics knows how crazy things can get). She has a long-term boyfriend, she goes on vacation, drinks alcohol, etc etc. and yet performs on a world-class level time and time again. It's astonishing.

I love Simone and she is 24 and has taken significant breaks off training in the last 4-5 years. So there is an aspect of that. And while I realize it wasn’t meant that way, Simone even with her phenomenal talent has dedicated most of her life and sacrificed enormously in order to perform at this level. As much as everyone else. Maybe more in some cases.

It is great that she is proving you can still take breaks, live less rigidly and compete into your 20s and dominate. But I just want to put in a word in for the lifetime of work, physical and mental pain, emotional hardship that is behind this.

She is proving that SHE can take breaks, then return and dominate. No one else ever could and, probably, won't be able to in the future. She truly is an anomaly.

I agree with you that Simone is a once in a lifetime talent.

I don't agree that Simone is the only one who can take breaks and come back to perform at a high level (maybe not dominate, but then again, Simone is Simone).

Aly Raisman took time off after the London Olympics in 2012 before she started her comeback for Rio in 2016. She was 18 and the captain of the team in London and was 22 on the gold medal winning team in Rio.

Gabby Douglas was also 21 in Rio, making a comeback after her gold medal in the all-around in 2012.

Internationally, there are other gymnasts with long careers, including Canada's Ellie Black, who will be 25 at the Tokyo Olympics and Germany's Elizabeth Seitz, who is still competing at a high level at age 27. Neither of these women ever took much time off from gymnastics except to recover from injuries, but they have had long and successful careers. It's nice to see that the sport is no longer dominated by pre-pubescent teens.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I could see her continuing as a vault specialist down the road like Oksana chusovitiba who is in her 40s.

Former elite gymnast here (who is in awe of Biles and never had those skills). I think she is ready to be done. The vaults Biles does are in a different stratosphere and take a much higher toll on the body. I don’t see her being willing to water down her skills just to keep competing. She has been pretty vocal that she almost quit several times last year. I think she’s done after this.

She recently said she's thinking about continuing to Paris as a specialist. (And her coaches are French.)

What do you all think of this? I think if a female competitor can accomplish this effortlessly and safely it should be qualified with full points.

Anonymous wrote:I could see her continuing as a vault specialist down the road like Oksana chusovitiba who is in her 40s.

Former elite gymnast here (who is in awe of Biles and never had those skills). I think she is ready to be done. The vaults Biles does are in a different stratosphere and take a much higher toll on the body. I don’t see her being willing to water down her skills just to keep competing. She has been pretty vocal that she almost quit several times last year. I think she’s done after this.

Mentally and physically top of the game. Shes really something!

I get in my head in front of people so I am always amazed at performers.

She is an amazing athlete and such an inspiration to so many girls. In addition to blowing our minds time and time again, she has also said something in the Hoda interview that made me love her more. She said she was called back to the sport b/c, as long as she is still there, they are forced to continue the changes. She's not just back for herself. She's back for all those that suffered under the old USAG and for all those girls who will come up after her.

I could see her continuing as a vault specialist down the road like Oksana chusovitiba who is in her 40s.

over-rotated