Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why are Americans obsessed with their grass? I don't get it. I also think in 10-20 years, you'll look back and be ashamed of the environmental devastation that trying to keep a perfect lawn not to mention the impact to our health:

https://www.cnn.com/style/article/lawns-american-yard-us/index.html#:~:text=Lawns%20are%20an%20American%20obsession,bylaws%20and%20by%20homeowner%20associations.

For all those who profess support of the environment, this is the height of hypocrisy. End of rant.

I mean, the landscaped yards in that article look beautiful, but are a LOT of work and not necessarily cheap either. We've been working to convert a small section of our lawn to native plants but there is no way we would do the entire yard. And kids need some space to run around, a lawn is best for this. Doesn't mean it has to be "perfect."

That's fair but it also doesn't mean you need to spray for weeds or mosquitos, both of which are incredibly harmful to the environment, pets and people. On my frequent walks, I am starting to see how bland and sterile non-native plants and pristine grass/lawns look and how damaging that is. Fun fact, did you know that your local bees can't pollinate non-native plants? Natives also do better. Moreover, you can find all kinds of alternatives to grass that are relatively low maintenance. It doesn't stop you from mowing. You just have to learn how to live with clover and dandelions!

I’m one of the people on this board who advocates for no chemicals, meadow lawns, I just posted about a perennial plant garden in lieu of a lawn, but this is a lie and a half.

I agree that the pp is dead wrong that bees (many of whom are non native themselves) won't pollinate non-native plants. And funny thing (although I don't mind dandelions, I do some hand weeding of them depending on my ambition) dandelions aren't native either. Nor are earthworms!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Whether we like it or not, nice grass lawn is a selling point. Lawns that are full of weeds, particularly crab grass are a sign of bad house ownership.
That is how buyers see it.
It is also a status symbol.
Houses that are more expensive than mine, in a neighborhood one over, almost all have manicured lawns. On my court, out of 8 houses, 5 are maintaining a "proper" lawn and have grass. The other 4 are not and it is very noticeable and looks bad. One has dandelions all over the front yard. Two have grow whatever grows which is not grass at all. And one is so, so.
Regardless of what we think is great for the environment, fact is that people like seeing the nice grass. Probably as they were raised with parents who thought nice grass was something to work on.
Bad lawn comes off being a lazy homeowner and people think that transfers to actual house maintenance.

Seriously? This is your justification? You could actually be the change instead of giving into some really shallow peer pressure. I got rid of chemicals and never looked back. I don't care what my neighbors think about a few dandelions and clover. And I really, really don't care what buyers think. But then again, I have no intention of selling for a decade or two and I keep our historic house in exquisite condition. Interestingly, the previous owners had a lawn service but didn't do any fundamental improvements. They more or less lived off the depreciation for 10 years. So, having a nice yard that is environmentally toxic - to plants, to pets and to people (especially kids) - is no guarantee that seller is investing in the things you can't see. But you do you, PP.

What? You really think if I used a tiny amount of chemicals that makes the difference.
You should care what buyers think, don't get this environmental crusade. There is a documentary showing that in Germany farmers raising organic (bio products) are not really able to get them sold as organic them bcs huge non-bio fields pollute every inch of the soil due to watershed and other processes that make pretty much all soil contaminated.
And I use True Green which has to comply with Montgomery country rules. But, sure we are buying your argument that you are protecting the kids!
All I think of you is that you are lazy and you use some crusade to justify it.
I know my neighbor is lazy that is why his yard is a mess. He never, ever mows his lawn until it is a jungle! Shallow peer pressure? You are lazy.
Funny how all neglected yards are crusaders' yards! I've yet to see a house with a terrible yard actually maintain their yard their natural way!

NP. Yes. This is how it works. All of you people - who are always only ever using “a tiny amount of chemicals” - add up. Just because you are only one person does not mean you have an impact. I live on a street with 90% perfect lawns, and I mean green sheets of grass so thick that it looks like newly installed shag carpet. My house is one of the crappiest lawns on the street because the last guy didn’t do even basic maintenance. It has been a battle to try and get the lawn to look semi-normal without resorting to chemicals, and I’m just not going to use them short of something like poison ivy.

But as we have more money, I’ll be purposefully switching it to a bee and meadow lawn with native grasses that will grow to five feet at the tallest parts and short sedges in the front. And then I’ll be lazy and saving the earth.

And just a teensy part of me will relish knowing that it annoys people who still think a green lawn is positive thing. It’s not. It’s a thing within the control of the average homeowner and the average homeowner is killing the earth.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Whether we like it or not, nice grass lawn is a selling point. Lawns that are full of weeds, particularly crab grass are a sign of bad house ownership.
That is how buyers see it.
It is also a status symbol.
Houses that are more expensive than mine, in a neighborhood one over, almost all have manicured lawns. On my court, out of 8 houses, 5 are maintaining a "proper" lawn and have grass. The other 4 are not and it is very noticeable and looks bad. One has dandelions all over the front yard. Two have grow whatever grows which is not grass at all. And one is so, so.
Regardless of what we think is great for the environment, fact is that people like seeing the nice grass. Probably as they were raised with parents who thought nice grass was something to work on.
Bad lawn comes off being a lazy homeowner and people think that transfers to actual house maintenance.

Seriously? This is your justification? You could actually be the change instead of giving into some really shallow peer pressure. I got rid of chemicals and never looked back. I don't care what my neighbors think about a few dandelions and clover. And I really, really don't care what buyers think. But then again, I have no intention of selling for a decade or two and I keep our historic house in exquisite condition. Interestingly, the previous owners had a lawn service but didn't do any fundamental improvements. They more or less lived off the depreciation for 10 years. So, having a nice yard that is environmentally toxic - to plants, to pets and to people (especially kids) - is no guarantee that seller is investing in the things you can't see. But you do you, PP.

What? You really think if I used a tiny amount of chemicals that makes the difference.
You should care what buyers think, don't get this environmental crusade. There is a documentary showing that in Germany farmers raising organic (bio products) are not really able to get them sold as organic them bcs huge non-bio fields pollute every inch of the soil due to watershed and other processes that make pretty much all soil contaminated.
And I use True Green which has to comply with Montgomery country rules. But, sure we are buying your argument that you are protecting the kids!
All I think of you is that you are lazy and you use some crusade to justify it.
I know my neighbor is lazy that is why his yard is a mess. He never, ever mows his lawn until it is a jungle! Shallow peer pressure? You are lazy.
Funny how all neglected yards are crusaders' yards! I've yet to see a house with a terrible yard actually maintain their yard their natural way!

Anonymous wrote:Whether we like it or not, nice grass lawn is a selling point. Lawns that are full of weeds, particularly crab grass are a sign of bad house ownership.
That is how buyers see it.
It is also a status symbol.
Houses that are more expensive than mine, in a neighborhood one over, almost all have manicured lawns. On my court, out of 8 houses, 5 are maintaining a "proper" lawn and have grass. The other 4 are not and it is very noticeable and looks bad. One has dandelions all over the front yard. Two have grow whatever grows which is not grass at all. And one is so, so.
Regardless of what we think is great for the environment, fact is that people like seeing the nice grass. Probably as they were raised with parents who thought nice grass was something to work on.
Bad lawn comes off being a lazy homeowner and people think that transfers to actual house maintenance.

Seriously? This is your justification? You could actually be the change instead of giving into some really shallow peer pressure. I got rid of chemicals and never looked back. I don't care what my neighbors think about a few dandelions and clover. And I really, really don't care what buyers think. But then again, I have no intention of selling for a decade or two and I keep our historic house in exquisite condition. Interestingly, the previous owners had a lawn service but didn't do any fundamental improvements. They more or less lived off the depreciation for 10 years. So, having a nice yard that is environmentally toxic - to plants, to pets and to people (especially kids) - is no guarantee that seller is investing in the things you can't see. But you do you, PP.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why are Americans obsessed with their grass? I don't get it. I also think in 10-20 years, you'll look back and be ashamed of the environmental devastation that trying to keep a perfect lawn not to mention the impact to our health:

https://www.cnn.com/style/article/lawns-american-yard-us/index.html#:~:text=Lawns%20are%20an%20American%20obsession,bylaws%20and%20by%20homeowner%20associations.

For all those who profess support of the environment, this is the height of hypocrisy. End of rant.

I mean, the landscaped yards in that article look beautiful, but are a LOT of work and not necessarily cheap either. We've been working to convert a small section of our lawn to native plants but there is no way we would do the entire yard. And kids need some space to run around, a lawn is best for this. Doesn't mean it has to be "perfect."

That's fair but it also doesn't mean you need to spray for weeds or mosquitos, both of which are incredibly harmful to the environment, pets and people. On my frequent walks, I am starting to see how bland and sterile non-native plants and pristine grass/lawns look and how damaging that is. Fun fact, did you know that your local bees can't pollinate non-native plants? Natives also do better. Moreover, you can find all kinds of alternatives to grass that are relatively low maintenance. It doesn't stop you from mowing. You just have to learn how to live with clover and dandelions!

DP. Oh if only we all just had clover and dandelions and violets......I can't find a pdf version but there's a great publication by the U.S. fish and wildlife service with area invasive weeds. The invasives are terrible around here.

I think they’re pretty terrible everywhere, what with global warming.

I was just thinking of other things OP could do - burn it off under plastic, for one thing, though it takes a few weeks (and works best in the blazing hot sun). You could do successive sowings of cover crop after that - buckwheat grows super fast and deprives the weeds of their sun, and then you can till it under for green manure, repeat.

Couldn't you just cover it with a tarp for a few weeks and then reseed?

You could but some weed seeds are really, really persistent, which is fine for the ones that are easy to weed out, but if OP wants a clean slate, she’s going to need to really cook the lawn.

Whether we like it or not, nice grass lawn is a selling point. Lawns that are full of weeds, particularly crab grass are a sign of bad house ownership.
That is how buyers see it.
It is also a status symbol.
Houses that are more expensive than mine, in a neighborhood one over, almost all have manicured lawns. On my court, out of 8 houses, 5 are maintaining a "proper" lawn and have grass. The other 4 are not and it is very noticeable and looks bad. One has dandelions all over the front yard. Two have grow whatever grows which is not grass at all. And one is so, so.
Regardless of what we think is great for the environment, fact is that people like seeing the nice grass. Probably as they were raised with parents who thought nice grass was something to work on.
Bad lawn comes off being a lazy homeowner and people think that transfers to actual house maintenance.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why are Americans obsessed with their grass? I don't get it. I also think in 10-20 years, you'll look back and be ashamed of the environmental devastation that trying to keep a perfect lawn not to mention the impact to our health:

https://www.cnn.com/style/article/lawns-american-yard-us/index.html#:~:text=Lawns%20are%20an%20American%20obsession,bylaws%20and%20by%20homeowner%20associations.

For all those who profess support of the environment, this is the height of hypocrisy. End of rant.

I mean, the landscaped yards in that article look beautiful, but are a LOT of work and not necessarily cheap either. We've been working to convert a small section of our lawn to native plants but there is no way we would do the entire yard. And kids need some space to run around, a lawn is best for this. Doesn't mean it has to be "perfect."

That's fair but it also doesn't mean you need to spray for weeds or mosquitos, both of which are incredibly harmful to the environment, pets and people. On my frequent walks, I am starting to see how bland and sterile non-native plants and pristine grass/lawns look and how damaging that is. Fun fact, did you know that your local bees can't pollinate non-native plants? Natives also do better. Moreover, you can find all kinds of alternatives to grass that are relatively low maintenance. It doesn't stop you from mowing. You just have to learn how to live with clover and dandelions!

DP. Oh if only we all just had clover and dandelions and violets......I can't find a pdf version but there's a great publication by the U.S. fish and wildlife service with area invasive weeds. The invasives are terrible around here.

I think they’re pretty terrible everywhere, what with global warming.

I was just thinking of other things OP could do - burn it off under plastic, for one thing, though it takes a few weeks (and works best in the blazing hot sun). You could do successive sowings of cover crop after that - buckwheat grows super fast and deprives the weeds of their sun, and then you can till it under for green manure, repeat.

Couldn't you just cover it with a tarp for a few weeks and then reseed?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why are Americans obsessed with their grass? I don't get it. I also think in 10-20 years, you'll look back and be ashamed of the environmental devastation that trying to keep a perfect lawn not to mention the impact to our health:

https://www.cnn.com/style/article/lawns-american-yard-us/index.html#:~:text=Lawns%20are%20an%20American%20obsession,bylaws%20and%20by%20homeowner%20associations.

For all those who profess support of the environment, this is the height of hypocrisy. End of rant.

I mean, the landscaped yards in that article look beautiful, but are a LOT of work and not necessarily cheap either. We've been working to convert a small section of our lawn to native plants but there is no way we would do the entire yard. And kids need some space to run around, a lawn is best for this. Doesn't mean it has to be "perfect."

That's fair but it also doesn't mean you need to spray for weeds or mosquitos, both of which are incredibly harmful to the environment, pets and people. On my frequent walks, I am starting to see how bland and sterile non-native plants and pristine grass/lawns look and how damaging that is. Fun fact, did you know that your local bees can't pollinate non-native plants? Natives also do better. Moreover, you can find all kinds of alternatives to grass that are relatively low maintenance. It doesn't stop you from mowing. You just have to learn how to live with clover and dandelions!

DP. Oh if only we all just had clover and dandelions and violets......I can't find a pdf version but there's a great publication by the U.S. fish and wildlife service with area invasive weeds. The invasives are terrible around here.

I think they’re pretty terrible everywhere, what with global warming.

I was just thinking of other things OP could do - burn it off under plastic, for one thing, though it takes a few weeks (and works best in the blazing hot sun). You could do successive sowings of cover crop after that - buckwheat grows super fast and deprives the weeds of their sun, and then you can till it under for green manure, repeat.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why are Americans obsessed with their grass? I don't get it. I also think in 10-20 years, you'll look back and be ashamed of the environmental devastation that trying to keep a perfect lawn not to mention the impact to our health:

https://www.cnn.com/style/article/lawns-american-yard-us/index.html#:~:text=Lawns%20are%20an%20American%20obsession,bylaws%20and%20by%20homeowner%20associations.

For all those who profess support of the environment, this is the height of hypocrisy. End of rant.

I mean, the landscaped yards in that article look beautiful, but are a LOT of work and not necessarily cheap either. We've been working to convert a small section of our lawn to native plants but there is no way we would do the entire yard. And kids need some space to run around, a lawn is best for this. Doesn't mean it has to be "perfect."

That's fair but it also doesn't mean you need to spray for weeds or mosquitos, both of which are incredibly harmful to the environment, pets and people. On my frequent walks, I am starting to see how bland and sterile non-native plants and pristine grass/lawns look and how damaging that is. Fun fact, did you know that your local bees can't pollinate non-native plants? Natives also do better. Moreover, you can find all kinds of alternatives to grass that are relatively low maintenance. It doesn't stop you from mowing. You just have to learn how to live with clover and dandelions!

DP. Oh if only we all just had clover and dandelions and violets......I can't find a pdf version but there's a great publication by the U.S. fish and wildlife service with area invasive weeds. The invasives are terrible around here.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why are Americans obsessed with their grass? I don't get it. I also think in 10-20 years, you'll look back and be ashamed of the environmental devastation that trying to keep a perfect lawn not to mention the impact to our health:

https://www.cnn.com/style/article/lawns-american-yard-us/index.html#:~:text=Lawns%20are%20an%20American%20obsession,bylaws%20and%20by%20homeowner%20associations.

For all those who profess support of the environment, this is the height of hypocrisy. End of rant.

I mean, the landscaped yards in that article look beautiful, but are a LOT of work and not necessarily cheap either. We've been working to convert a small section of our lawn to native plants but there is no way we would do the entire yard. And kids need some space to run around, a lawn is best for this. Doesn't mean it has to be "perfect."

That's fair but it also doesn't mean you need to spray for weeds or mosquitos, both of which are incredibly harmful to the environment, pets and people. On my frequent walks, I am starting to see how bland and sterile non-native plants and pristine grass/lawns look and how damaging that is. Fun fact, did you know that your local bees can't pollinate non-native plants? Natives also do better. Moreover, you can find all kinds of alternatives to grass that are relatively low maintenance. It doesn't stop you from mowing. You just have to learn how to live with clover and dandelions!

I’m one of the people on this board who advocates for no chemicals, meadow lawns, I just posted about a perennial plant garden in lieu of a lawn, but this is a lie and a half.

\

Np here. What is true is that we have lost many of our native bees. Many bees only use certain native plants. Honey bees are actually not native. It is helpful to the environment to use native plants.

That’s not what the PP said, and that’s what I take issue with. No, many bees do not only use certain native plants; most natives do not bloom anywhere near long enough for them to rely on just natives. One of the reasons that we are losing so many bees is that we don’t have enough blooming plants for them, period. Look in most suburban neighborhoods: grass. Grass and bushes, sometimes a couple annuals. That’s it. There is nothing for bees (or birds or any other insect). You can plant a variety of pollinator-friendly plants - natives among them - that bloom over a season and give all the bees (including the little sweat bees) lots to eat. Pollen for protein and nectar for carbohydrates. But it’s not just natives.

Anonymous wrote:If it’s crabgrass nip it in the bud now. Not very familiar as DH has been battling, but from his rants it overtakes healthy grass. Our lawn was good and the neighbors yard was not, and it’s starting to encroach on the corner of our property on their side.

Yes, crab grass is nasty business that leaves your lawn brown and bare.
I am the one who redid the whole front lawn due to it.
I could take clover, oxalis, and a myriad of other things that started to grow. But, crabgrass leaves it dead for most of the year. Due to both neighbors now I have True Green coming bcs they are not doing any work on their lawns. Two neighbors around these two, have wonderful lawns! But, just my luck.
I am from Europe and we don't do any of this madness there. But, hey, when in Rome...

I bought clover seeds in two colors. I have tons of weeds and a huge number of pollinators in my garden. So I say to hell with having a great lawn. I have an interesting lawn. And the lawn mower chap who I hire cuts it often enough that it does not look that bad.

If it’s crabgrass nip it in the bud now. Not very familiar as DH has been battling, but from his rants it overtakes healthy grass. Our lawn was good and the neighbors yard was not, and it’s starting to encroach on the corner of our property on their side.

The whole lawn thing just amazes me. The original idea was to have this oasis of greenery and peace in every home, and it has morphed into rarely being able to enjoy it because of the constant noise pollution of mowers, blowers, and edgers. People bagging grass in plastic and throwing chemicals on their grass-it is kind of insane of we really stop to think about it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why are Americans obsessed with their grass? I don't get it. I also think in 10-20 years, you'll look back and be ashamed of the environmental devastation that trying to keep a perfect lawn not to mention the impact to our health:

https://www.cnn.com/style/article/lawns-american-yard-us/index.html#:~:text=Lawns%20are%20an%20American%20obsession,bylaws%20and%20by%20homeowner%20associations.

For all those who profess support of the environment, this is the height of hypocrisy. End of rant.

I mean, the landscaped yards in that article look beautiful, but are a LOT of work and not necessarily cheap either. We've been working to convert a small section of our lawn to native plants but there is no way we would do the entire yard. And kids need some space to run around, a lawn is best for this. Doesn't mean it has to be "perfect."

That's fair but it also doesn't mean you need to spray for weeds or mosquitos, both of which are incredibly harmful to the environment, pets and people. On my frequent walks, I am starting to see how bland and sterile non-native plants and pristine grass/lawns look and how damaging that is. Fun fact, did you know that your local bees can't pollinate non-native plants? Natives also do better. Moreover, you can find all kinds of alternatives to grass that are relatively low maintenance. It doesn't stop you from mowing. You just have to learn how to live with clover and dandelions!

I’m one of the people on this board who advocates for no chemicals, meadow lawns, I just posted about a perennial plant garden in lieu of a lawn, but this is a lie and a half.

\

Np here. What is true is that we have lost many of our native bees. Many bees only use certain native plants. Honey bees are actually not native. It is helpful to the environment to use native plants.