Anonymous wrote:Private school parents don’t want to pay the levels of tuition necessary to pay teachers as much as public school teachers earn

Private school tuition is already out of reach for most families (except maybe parochial schools). It just wouldn't be sustainable to run the schools if teachers were paid like public school teachers.

Anonymous wrote:Because they’re not unionized.

Many public schools are not unionized.

Anonymous wrote:Because there are enough teachers who are willing to take the pay cut in exchange for the more enjoyable teaching environment.
-teacher

And many are subsidized by spouses or parents. My younger DD was also taught by many young women and one man in the process of deciding to become Catholic clergy. They were living very modestly (group housing, biking to work or catching the bus, thrift store clothing, and brown bag lunches). All but one ended up in the religious life. The one that didn’t was married within a year and on maternity leave by her first anniversary. We left the school after that so I don’t know if she ever returned.

It's mostly because they don't have to deal with IEPs, behavior problems, or students who aren't performing on grade level. Most private schools have minimum admissions standards and aren't going to take students who have a documented case of one or more of the above, but especially not #1 or #2. The amount of paperwork is huge for public school teachers, and you can't refuse to accommodate a student in your class because you aren't trained to deal with HFA or dyslexia or ADHD and don't want to write sub plans while you sit in an IEP or local screening meeting. The private special ed schools cost considerably more, mostly because they have to hire more staff who are trained to deal with those issues. Some of the teachers at privates aren't certified and don't have endorsements in their subject area, which is less of an issue at schools where students are mostly coming in on grade level without food or housing insecurity and have well educated parents who have provided all sorts of enrichment activities since birth, or even just "basic" stuff like reading to their kids a lot, or going to museums and musical events.

I did see a bunch of cringeworthy situations when I taught private, where students had obvious signs of learning disabilities and really should have received at least an evaluation in early ES and subsequent interventions, but the parents didn't want to accept it so nothing was done. Usually these kids twisted in the wind until about 4th grade and then the behavior problems started because they couldn't keep up. We counseled out a lot of those students, who went to public schools and usually got referred for local screening by the end of the first quarter.

I went from teaching in public to teaching in private and am willing to answer honestly, but I also want to challenge some of the assumptions in this thread:

1. I initially made less in private school, but that was mostly due to the differential in health insurance cost. I am not paid in "lockstep" with teachers who have the same number of years of experience anymore, but that also means that over time I negotiated a far better salary. I make more in private now than I would have at the equivalent step in public. That is case by case.
2. That said, I only could take that initial cut because I have a much higher-earning partner. It was an inconsequential part of the decision for me.
3. I never looked back. Part of the value of private school is that 99% of my time goes to direct teaching and addressing students' needs. I'm not watching a series of dumb training videos that have no bearing on my work.
4. I have more flexibility to innovate and do what's right for kids. My hands were often tied when I was in public school. I don't need an IEP to give a child the right accommodations.

Now for the false blanket statements, at least from my perspective in a DC independent school, not a Catholic school:

1. My peers are not less qualified, though many are not certified. Think about it for a moment. I'm certified because I had to get certified to work in a public school, but that certification process has very little to do with what I bring to my school. I was a career changer with extensive experience in my field. I'd been working with children in other capacities my entire life. I have several graduate degrees and a passion for what I teach. I went to top 5 universities for both my undergraduate and graduate programs. When I changed fields, I went back for certification at a local university that accepts everyone. It was just a means to an end. The quality of that program was abysmal. Yet it gave me the piece of paper that allowed me to apply to public schools. It did nothing to improve my teaching. Everyone ends up learning things like behavior management on the job, anyway. There are excellent teachers in both settings, but independent school teachers' contracts are re-upped annually. If you're terrible, you won't be passed around the system; you'll be terminated. My colleagues now (and again, there are good and bad teachers everywhere) may not be certified, but they are incredibly intelligent, well-educated people who want to be there. So many of my former colleagues are riding it out until they have enough years to collect their pension. I hope to stay at my school for as long as they'll have me.
2. Yes, the workload is lighter in an independent school, at least with regards to extraneous duties and number of preps you have to do, as well as the number of students in your classes. But many independent teachers still put in long hours because they don't feel like time punchers. It's their choice as long as they're doing their job well. You can pick up extra work in both settings for a stipend, ie coaching.
3. Sometimes the kids are all higher-achieving, better-behaved etc., but that isn't true for all schools. Given the economy, some schools have loosened standards without adding appropriate supports, so buyer beware. Look at how well their support programs are staffed.

Ok, that's my 2 cents. I'm aware that I'm very lucky that I get to work by choice and love my job. I probably would have stayed in public if that differential had made a substantial difference in my life, but that wouldn't have benefitted anyone's kids, because I was miserable. Never underestimate the importance of happy teachers to a school's overall culture.

Unions. Not performance which at this point means being open. You get what you vote for.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They are paid less because they get little to no government funding. Period. Fwiw, I work in public and make 75k. I came from Catholic school where I was paid 25k. My question is why do parochial school teachers stay? Yes, some independent private schools pay higher than parochial but seriously, 25k is less than what people make serving fast food.

What did your colleagues say who stayed when you left? What are their reasons?

I assume they don't want to be stabbed with scissors or have to deal with the IEPs.
As a parent, that's why I have my child in private school with their "unqualified" teachers. I mean, they are learning more than they did in public school. They are around other students who are doing well and not as stressed out by teachers stretched thin with difficult classroom management needs. I'm cool with it. Glad there are teachers who make that career decision.

Problematically, making less than minimum wage is not a career decision. It's basically a volunteer job. And the archdiocese is taking advantage of them. Also if you think that parochial schools don't have kids who have significant special needs, academic and behavioral, your inexperience is showing.

According to google, the average salary of an AOB teacher is $40,000 a year - $68,000 a year. I believe that is above minimum wage.

Well I'm in Chicago and as of 6 years ago, I was making 25k with a masters degree and 4 years experience. Just fyi, catholic schools pay their elementary teachers 10-15k a year less than their high school teachers. They also don't follow their own tenets about treating workers well. Because even by your own stats, if the average catholic teacher--so probably 18 years in with a masters-- is making say 50, that's awful. That's 30-40k less than their public school counterparts.

I left my job because I don't have a wealthy spouse and we got tired if going to the food bank. I also knew I needed a retirement through a pension and the Chicago archdiocese offers nothing. I knew that the church would never practice what they preach.

Because there are enough teachers who are willing to take the pay cut in exchange for the more enjoyable teaching environment.
-teacher

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Less education requirements.

Once again, this is not true. Catholic school teachers are often required to maintain the same certification as public school teachers. I work in a Catholic high school. We are all certified. Most have public school experience and most have advanced degrees.

Again, it is true. Just because you work at one school where "most have advanced degrees" (would love to see actual stats on that) doesn't mean that those are the requirements. I am a public school teacher and the only teachers I know who have left for privates or charters are those who could not pass certification tests, didn't complete their masters coursework within the state's required 3 year time frame, or were discontinued for low ratings. I know a Catholic school teacher teaching high school chemistry with just an undergraduate degree in philosophy.

Anonymous wrote:Less education requirements.

Once again, this is not true. Catholic school teachers are often required to maintain the same certification as public school teachers. I work in a Catholic high school. We are all certified. Most have public school experience and most have advanced degrees.

Less education requirements.

There’s an encyclical - Ex Corse Ecclesia, I think - that addresses what Catholic institutions owe their employees. Catholic social teaching is generally really strong on duties to workers, etc. The pay will definitely be lower than public but no teacher should be needing food stamps. It may simply be that we live in a wealthy area and the parishes are well funded but I would be surprised to hear of that happening here. I am in no way arguing that the pay is as high as public schools - it’s not - but as others have noted people make their choices for a variety of reasons.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They are paid less because they get little to no government funding. Period. Fwiw, I work in public and make 75k. I came from Catholic school where I was paid 25k. My question is why do parochial school teachers stay? Yes, some independent private schools pay higher than parochial but seriously, 25k is less than what people make serving fast food.

What did your colleagues say who stayed when you left? What are their reasons?

I assume they don't want to be stabbed with scissors or have to deal with the IEPs.
As a parent, that's why I have my child in private school with their "unqualified" teachers. I mean, they are learning more than they did in public school. They are around other students who are doing well and not as stressed out by teachers stretched thin with difficult classroom management needs. I'm cool with it. Glad there are teachers who make that career decision.

Problematically, making less than minimum wage is not a career decision. It's basically a volunteer job. And the archdiocese is taking advantage of them. Also if you think that parochial schools don't have kids who have significant special needs, academic and behavioral, your inexperience is showing.

My inexperience may be showing but only because I have the experience of only my own kids to go by which is also cool with me. They are happier, learning more and they do not have as many children in their classrooms who have behavioral issues like in their public schools.
I'm not an educator or a public school lobbyist in my spare time. If the school works for my child, I'm fine with it. Sorry to give the impression that I'm out there for the greater good or something. I think most parents don't have the bandwidth to be the savior of society and public education in their spare time.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They are paid less because they get little to no government funding. Period. Fwiw, I work in public and make 75k. I came from Catholic school where I was paid 25k. My question is why do parochial school teachers stay? Yes, some independent private schools pay higher than parochial but seriously, 25k is less than what people make serving fast food.

What did your colleagues say who stayed when you left? What are their reasons?

I assume they don't want to be stabbed with scissors or have to deal with the IEPs.
As a parent, that's why I have my child in private school with their "unqualified" teachers. I mean, they are learning more than they did in public school. They are around other students who are doing well and not as stressed out by teachers stretched thin with difficult classroom management needs. I'm cool with it. Glad there are teachers who make that career decision.

Problematically, making less than minimum wage is not a career decision. It's basically a volunteer job. And the archdiocese is taking advantage of them. Also if you think that parochial schools don't have kids who have significant special needs, academic and behavioral, your inexperience is showing.

According to google, the average salary of an AOB teacher is $40,000 a year - $68,000 a year. I believe that is above minimum wage.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They are paid less because they get little to no government funding. Period. Fwiw, I work in public and make 75k. I came from Catholic school where I was paid 25k. My question is why do parochial school teachers stay? Yes, some independent private schools pay higher than parochial but seriously, 25k is less than what people make serving fast food.

What did your colleagues say who stayed when you left? What are their reasons?

I assume they don't want to be stabbed with scissors or have to deal with the IEPs.
As a parent, that's why I have my child in private school with their "unqualified" teachers. I mean, they are learning more than they did in public school. They are around other students who are doing well and not as stressed out by teachers stretched thin with difficult classroom management needs. I'm cool with it. Glad there are teachers who make that career decision.

Problematically, making less than minimum wage is not a career decision. It's basically a volunteer job. And the archdiocese is taking advantage of them. Also if you think that parochial schools don't have kids who have significant special needs, academic and behavioral, your inexperience is showing.