Anonymous wrote:We have extremely high standards for behavior. But we allow all feelings. For example, its ok to express your anger or displeasure by whining or crying, but it is NOT ok to throw things or to hit people when you're angry. I show my kids how to express their anger in constructive ways. If my kid walks away when I am talking to them, I go and sit in front of them and say 'I see you're having a hard time listening, what can you do when that happens?" And I tell them what they can do instead.

Kids pre frontal cortex in the brain, which controls emotional control, is not developed until early adulthood. So to expect a 4y to not whine is NOT developmentally age appropriate.

If my husband told me not to whine when I am annoyed with something, I would just get more angry. But if he says "Yeah I get it, its annoying", I can immediately calm down. And I'm an adult and not a 4y old obviously...

It's part of being human to be able to express your feelings.

This is well said. My kids stomp their feet, roll their eyes, huff and puff. But if they do the task I’m asking them to do, it’s fine. If they look really upset, I get down on their level and ask them what’s bugging them. Sometimes it’s just a matter of not feeling heard. My 5 year old will say something like “but I was playing, I don’t want to clean up”. To which I say “I understand, it is frustrating, let’s clean up together and see who can get the toys back in the closet the fastest”. That usually snaps him right out of it. Don’t make the behavior a big deal, let them express it, but help them to move past it. It’s normal in young kids. My oldest grew past it, or course I’m sure the eye rolls and huffs will make an appearance again once he hits 14. That’s totally normal too!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We have extremely high standards for behavior. But we allow all feelings. For example, its ok to express your anger or displeasure by whining or crying, but it is NOT ok to throw things or to hit people when you're angry. I show my kids how to express their anger in constructive ways. If my kid walks away when I am talking to them, I go and sit in front of them and say 'I see you're having a hard time listening, what can you do when that happens?" And I tell them what they can do instead.

Kids pre frontal cortex in the brain, which controls emotional control, is not developed until early adulthood. So to expect a 4y to not whine is NOT developmentally age appropriate.

If my husband told me not to whine when I am annoyed with something, I would just get more angry. But if he says "Yeah I get it, its annoying", I can immediately calm down. And I'm an adult and not a 4y old obviously...

It's part of being human to be able to express your feelings.

I'm the "move and talk to them somewhere else" mom.

I don't see crying and eye rolling in the same category at all. I see the latter as rude. There are other ways to express not wanting to do something that are not rude.

Ok, but that is YOUR boundary. My point is in how you enforce it. And I am saying you should then show your toddler what to do instead, instead of threatening or implementing consequences which have nothing to do with the eye rolling. For example "If you roll your eyes, I don't want to continue this conversation. You can say "I am annoyed" instead of rolling your eyes".

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a very brand new supervisor right now who is in the stage of his first supervisory assignment where he will not allow any eye- rolling or grumbling. He’s writing this up as insubordination.

I think he’s going to last about 4 months.

Wait. I am a supervisor. When I give directions and instructions I should allow my direct reports to look right at me, grumble and roll their eyes? Of ADULTS? Nope. Now, in your office you can mumble or in your head you can question, but actually, if you are an ADULT you can also say "I am not sure I understand why you want me to do it that way." Or "I disagree, can we talk about it some more?" And then if they still don't agree, they should still do it because I know better - I'm their boss and have more understanding, knowledge, or see the bigger picture.

I certainly have grumbled or talked under my breath to people, but my boss? Yeah, no.

Sure. But you're authority to enforce the no-eyerolling does not exist. People can do what they want. You can talk to them and say 'that was disrespectful. do you want to share your views on why you just rolled your eyes?". But you can't stop people from doing it.

Anonymous wrote:I let eye rolls go. I let mumbling under the breath go. If I tell them to go do something, and they go off to do it while grumbling, they're still doing it. And that's good enough for me. I do not want to create a situation where they can't vent their anger or frustration.

I'm strict about safety, about cleaning up messes and being organized, strict about being kind, strict about enforcing boundaries, and about high-quality apologies. But if you want to stamp up the stairs grumbling that you HATE getting dressed, go right ahead. I hate putting on a bra and real pants instead of pj pants too, buddy. I feel you, 100%.

+100

This is the best response.

Anonymous wrote:We have extremely high standards for behavior. But we allow all feelings. For example, its ok to express your anger or displeasure by whining or crying, but it is NOT ok to throw things or to hit people when you're angry. I show my kids how to express their anger in constructive ways. If my kid walks away when I am talking to them, I go and sit in front of them and say 'I see you're having a hard time listening, what can you do when that happens?" And I tell them what they can do instead.

Kids pre frontal cortex in the brain, which controls emotional control, is not developed until early adulthood. So to expect a 4y to not whine is NOT developmentally age appropriate.

If my husband told me not to whine when I am annoyed with something, I would just get more angry. But if he says "Yeah I get it, its annoying", I can immediately calm down. And I'm an adult and not a 4y old obviously...

It's part of being human to be able to express your feelings.

I'm the "move and talk to them somewhere else" mom.

I don't see crying and eye rolling in the same category at all. I see the latter as rude. There are other ways to express not wanting to do something that are not rude.

Anonymous wrote:I have a very brand new supervisor right now who is in the stage of his first supervisory assignment where he will not allow any eye- rolling or grumbling. He’s writing this up as insubordination.

I think he’s going to last about 4 months.

Wait. I am a supervisor. When I give directions and instructions I should allow my direct reports to look right at me, grumble and roll their eyes? Of ADULTS? Nope. Now, in your office you can mumble or in your head you can question, but actually, if you are an ADULT you can also say "I am not sure I understand why you want me to do it that way." Or "I disagree, can we talk about it some more?" And then if they still don't agree, they should still do it because I know better - I'm their boss and have more understanding, knowledge, or see the bigger picture.

I certainly have grumbled or talked under my breath to people, but my boss? Yeah, no.

Anonymous wrote:Don’t listen to the empathetic, let’s-develop-a-collective-strategy-with-an-irrational-preschooler parents; young children need direct, simple instructions with clear and consistent consequences. They don’t want to brainstorm boundaries, YOU set the boundaries. Young children want to know the dimensions of their world, this goes, this doesn’t, this is good, that’s bad. Your rules should be as natural as the laws of physics: gravity makes things fall and children don’t roll their eyes at their mothers.

You can be empathetic and set clear boundaries. "I hear you don't want to go home, but that's what we're doing now. I know, it's hard and you're mad about it. Do you want to walk or should I carry you to the car?". Then pick them up and put them in the car. No threatening or negotiating, while still allowing them to be upset and holding the boundary.

We have extremely high standards for behavior. But we allow all feelings. For example, its ok to express your anger or displeasure by whining or crying, but it is NOT ok to throw things or to hit people when you're angry. I show my kids how to express their anger in constructive ways. If my kid walks away when I am talking to them, I go and sit in front of them and say 'I see you're having a hard time listening, what can you do when that happens?" And I tell them what they can do instead.

Kids pre frontal cortex in the brain, which controls emotional control, is not developed until early adulthood. So to expect a 4y to not whine is NOT developmentally age appropriate.

If my husband told me not to whine when I am annoyed with something, I would just get more angry. But if he says "Yeah I get it, its annoying", I can immediately calm down. And I'm an adult and not a 4y old obviously...

It's part of being human to be able to express your feelings.

Anonymous wrote:I have a very brand new supervisor right now who is in the stage of his first supervisory assignment where he will not allow any eye- rolling or grumbling. He’s writing this up as insubordination.

I think he’s going to last about 4 months.

If someone sabotages him sooner, he will be out quicker. 4 months is way too long to deal with that nonsense.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I let eye rolls go. I let mumbling under the breath go. If I tell them to go do something, and they go off to do it while grumbling, they're still doing it. And that's good enough for me. I do not want to create a situation where they can't vent their anger or frustration.

I'm strict about safety, about cleaning up messes and being organized, strict about being kind, strict about enforcing boundaries, and about high-quality apologies. But if you want to stamp up the stairs grumbling that you HATE getting dressed, go right ahead. I hate putting on a bra and real pants instead of pj pants too, buddy. I feel you, 100%.

This is the right answer right here. Kids are allowed to express their displeasure. They’re human beings. My mom was insane about not allowing any sort of eye rolling or any other form of “rude behavior”. Thankfully she doesn’t get it anymore from me and my two siblings because we don’t ever see her. Now I hear she whines about how she can’t believe we have abandoned her.

+1. My parents were super strict and I really don't talk to them. Personally, I follow the approaches outlined in Whole Brain Parenting and No Drama Discipline. Works for us and great for relationship building while teaching children how to be people.

I follow this book too. I think the parents who are too strict have issues with what they perceive as lack of control and they don’t know any other ways of addressing those issues. So they latch onto perceived slights like a huff or an eye roll. People like that are always looking for ways that they feel others have slighted them even when it’s not their kids. They also have very rigid and black & white thinking when it comes to the world.

Your mom didn't accept rude behavior so you've determined she was a less than perfect mother and then you... don't see her anymore? Presumably she fed you, clothed you, educated you, rejoiced in your successes and suffered your hurts.

Bad karma lady. Your children will follow your example.

Authoritarian parents rarely have close relationships with their adult children. It is common for children raised by parents like that to have poor emotional regulation, poor self esteem, and issues with authority as they get older. It is usually better for kids raised like that to cut ties in order to heal their trauma.

https://www.canr.msu.edu/news/authoritarian_parenting_style

Kids are allowed to feel their feelings while also following house rules and not being rude. I also try not to set up my kids for failure but knowing what they are capable of. And where did he learn the eye rolling?
For those that say it wont be tolerated, what would do right after it happens? What is the consequence?
My 5 year old dd can be spirited but i know that she cannot go to ber room and pick out clothes in the am. Its too stressful in the am. So we pick the day before, if she doesn't like it in the am she can go change them but she never does. She now even reminds me at bedtime to get clothes from her room (she is in an upstairs bedroom and gets dressed in her baby sisters room downstairs) because she knows itll make for a better morning. I get sass back sometimes and i acknowledged that shes is feeling angry or frustrated or sad and remind her not to be rude and go to another room and calm down or ask of she needs something shes not getting. So more and more she will say she is in a bad mood when she is and can she go to her room and be away from us. A lot of my parenting is reminding that is can be in control of a lot of her life and emotions and Im there to help her and not control her. Safety comes first of course but we don't run into issues woth that much.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I let eye rolls go. I let mumbling under the breath go. If I tell them to go do something, and they go off to do it while grumbling, they're still doing it. And that's good enough for me. I do not want to create a situation where they can't vent their anger or frustration.

I'm strict about safety, about cleaning up messes and being organized, strict about being kind, strict about enforcing boundaries, and about high-quality apologies. But if you want to stamp up the stairs grumbling that you HATE getting dressed, go right ahead. I hate putting on a bra and real pants instead of pj pants too, buddy. I feel you, 100%.

This is the right answer right here. Kids are allowed to express their displeasure. They’re human beings. My mom was insane about not allowing any sort of eye rolling or any other form of “rude behavior”. Thankfully she doesn’t get it anymore from me and my two siblings because we don’t ever see her. Now I hear she whines about how she can’t believe we have abandoned her.

+1. My parents were super strict and I really don't talk to them. Personally, I follow the approaches outlined in Whole Brain Parenting and No Drama Discipline. Works for us and great for relationship building while teaching children how to be people.

I follow this book too. I think the parents who are too strict have issues with what they perceive as lack of control and they don’t know any other ways of addressing those issues. So they latch onto perceived slights like a huff or an eye roll. People like that are always looking for ways that they feel others have slighted them even when it’s not their kids. They also have very rigid and black & white thinking when it comes to the world.

Your mom didn't accept rude behavior so you've determined she was a less than perfect mother and then you... don't see her anymore? Presumably she fed you, clothed you, educated you, rejoiced in your successes and suffered your hurts.

Bad karma lady. Your children will follow your example.

OP, you’re in a house, not a boot camp. Relax.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I let eye rolls go. I let mumbling under the breath go. If I tell them to go do something, and they go off to do it while grumbling, they're still doing it. And that's good enough for me. I do not want to create a situation where they can't vent their anger or frustration.

I'm strict about safety, about cleaning up messes and being organized, strict about being kind, strict about enforcing boundaries, and about high-quality apologies. But if you want to stamp up the stairs grumbling that you HATE getting dressed, go right ahead. I hate putting on a bra and real pants instead of pj pants too, buddy. I feel you, 100%.

This is the right answer right here. Kids are allowed to express their displeasure. They’re human beings. My mom was insane about not allowing any sort of eye rolling or any other form of “rude behavior”. Thankfully she doesn’t get it anymore from me and my two siblings because we don’t ever see her. Now I hear she whines about how she can’t believe we have abandoned her.

+1. My parents were super strict and I really don't talk to them. Personally, I follow the approaches outlined in Whole Brain Parenting and No Drama Discipline. Works for us and great for relationship building while teaching children how to be people.

I follow this book too. I think the parents who are too strict have issues with what they perceive as lack of control and they don’t know any other ways of addressing those issues. So they latch onto perceived slights like a huff or an eye roll. People like that are always looking for ways that they feel others have slighted them even when it’s not their kids. They also have very rigid and black & white thinking when it comes to the world.

I have a very brand new supervisor right now who is in the stage of his first supervisory assignment where he will not allow any eye- rolling or grumbling. He’s writing this up as insubordination.

I think he’s going to last about 4 months.