Top universities want leaders to return to their communities and lead our nation/their community to change for the better.

That is why a student from a needy community doesn’t need the same stats as somebody who has great stats in an area with yin’s of kids with great stats.

They don’t want worker bees and if that is what you aspire to be then why go to a top university?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:University professor here. It's not what most professors want. The last thing we need is arrogant little pricks coming in thinking they are revolutionizing the world with an IQ of 120. This is just one example of very many, but I had set up a booth to recruit students for a study several years back. It was going just fine until a 20 year old came up to me and insisted he was a "direct marketing expert" who was "transforming businesses." He would not leave my booth and I lost a number of potential recruits in the thirty (!!) minutes he lectured me on what I was doing wrong with my advertisement and recruiting script. I came to learn he had taken TWO CLASSES in marketing to gain his "expertise." Like dude, you're a sophomore, not a business transformation expert. Leadership is a buzzword invented by administrators so that they can ignore SAT scores in favor of subjective and ever changing definitions of "personality" to broaden their admissions pool. The reality is that we get a lot of students who have been falsely indoctrinated by their parents, high schools, and others that they are leadership material, even though when they graduate they will probably be performing some menial task. It's not proven but I believe the inflation of young people's expectations that they will all be some kind of leader or world changer is contributing to depression in the late 20s/early 30s workforce

If you are a university professor who was taken for a ride for 30 mins by a sophomoric kid with 2 classes, this explains why this country is going down the toilet. A prof who spends all his life thinking should be able to spot a fake within 10 secs. You are the moron here.

Thank you!

Anonymous wrote:University professor here. It's not what most professors want. The last thing we need is arrogant little pricks coming in thinking they are revolutionizing the world with an IQ of 120. This is just one example of very many, but I had set up a booth to recruit students for a study several years back. It was going just fine until a 20 year old came up to me and insisted he was a "direct marketing expert" who was "transforming businesses." He would not leave my booth and I lost a number of potential recruits in the thirty (!!) minutes he lectured me on what I was doing wrong with my advertisement and recruiting script. I came to learn he had taken TWO CLASSES in marketing to gain his "expertise." Like dude, you're a sophomore, not a business transformation expert. Leadership is a buzzword invented by administrators so that they can ignore SAT scores in favor of subjective and ever changing definitions of "personality" to broaden their admissions pool. The reality is that we get a lot of students who have been falsely indoctrinated by their parents, high schools, and others that they are leadership material, even though when they graduate they will probably be performing some menial task. It's not proven but I believe the inflation of young people's expectations that they will all be some kind of leader or world changer is contributing to depression in the late 20s/early 30s workforce

You sound inane.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:University professor here. It's not what most professors want. The last thing we need is arrogant little pricks coming in thinking they are revolutionizing the world with an IQ of 120. This is just one example of very many, but I had set up a booth to recruit students for a study several years back. It was going just fine until a 20 year old came up to me and insisted he was a "direct marketing expert" who was "transforming businesses." He would not leave my booth and I lost a number of potential recruits in the thirty (!!) minutes he lectured me on what I was doing wrong with my advertisement and recruiting script. I came to learn he had taken TWO CLASSES in marketing to gain his "expertise." Like dude, you're a sophomore, not a business transformation expert. Leadership is a buzzword invented by administrators so that they can ignore SAT scores in favor of subjective and ever changing definitions of "personality" to broaden their admissions pool. The reality is that we get a lot of students who have been falsely indoctrinated by their parents, high schools, and others that they are leadership material, even though when they graduate they will probably be performing some menial task. It's not proven but I believe the inflation of young people's expectations that they will all be some kind of leader or world changer is contributing to depression in the late 20s/early 30s workforce

If you are a university professor who was taken for a ride for 30 mins by a sophomoric kid with 2 classes, this explains why this country is going down the toilet. A prof who spends all his life thinking should be able to spot a fake within 10 secs. You are the moron here.

And if they had said, "Look, I am trying to accomplish something here and you are in the way. Get out," someone would have been complaining about how arrogant and rude professors are and this is why the country is going down the toilet.

But good job calling a total stranger a moron.

For teens leadership is really taking on responsibility. No teen is reinventing the wheel with very few exceptions. But like any other service or civic or sports or arts organizations, getting people to step up and be responsible and organize the other volunteers is a necessary and thankless task. Do these colleges want the kids that understand the world does not run itself and someone needs to do it or the ones that sit back and let someone else do that job?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Elite colleges are basically looking for one thing: evidence that you will someday be either very rich, very famous, or both. "Leadership" is an attempt to screen for that.

It's ridiculous, but you don't have to apply to those colleges. For most careers (other than the rich/ famous ones), it really doesn't matter where you went for undergrad.

This. Plenty of other colleges take the non-leaders like me, who want to be academics or just love to learn. You can even get merit scholarships.

There's nothing wrong being a follower like you. Not sure why you think everyone in the world has to be like you. If everyone were followers in your world, you still need leaders.

Anonymous wrote:Elite colleges are basically looking for one thing: evidence that you will someday be either very rich, very famous, or both. "Leadership" is an attempt to screen for that.

It's ridiculous, but you don't have to apply to those colleges. For most careers (other than the rich/ famous ones), it really doesn't matter where you went for undergrad.

This. Plenty of other colleges take the non-leaders like me, who want to be academics or just love to learn. You can even get merit scholarships.

Anonymous wrote:University professor here. It's not what most professors want. The last thing we need is arrogant little pricks coming in thinking they are revolutionizing the world with an IQ of 120. This is just one example of very many, but I had set up a booth to recruit students for a study several years back. It was going just fine until a 20 year old came up to me and insisted he was a "direct marketing expert" who was "transforming businesses." He would not leave my booth and I lost a number of potential recruits in the thirty (!!) minutes he lectured me on what I was doing wrong with my advertisement and recruiting script. I came to learn he had taken TWO CLASSES in marketing to gain his "expertise." Like dude, you're a sophomore, not a business transformation expert. Leadership is a buzzword invented by administrators so that they can ignore SAT scores in favor of subjective and ever changing definitions of "personality" to broaden their admissions pool. The reality is that we get a lot of students who have been falsely indoctrinated by their parents, high schools, and others that they are leadership material, even though when they graduate they will probably be performing some menial task. It's not proven but I believe the inflation of young people's expectations that they will all be some kind of leader or world changer is contributing to depression in the late 20s/early 30s workforce

If you are a university professor who was taken for a ride for 30 mins by a sophomoric kid with 2 classes, this explains why this country is going down the toilet. A prof who spends all his life thinking should be able to spot a fake within 10 secs. You are the moron here.

Anonymous wrote:University professor here. It's not what most professors want. The last thing we need is arrogant little pricks coming in thinking they are revolutionizing the world with an IQ of 120. This is just one example of very many, but I had set up a booth to recruit students for a study several years back. It was going just fine until a 20 year old came up to me and insisted he was a "direct marketing expert" who was "transforming businesses." He would not leave my booth and I lost a number of potential recruits in the thirty (!!) minutes he lectured me on what I was doing wrong with my advertisement and recruiting script. I came to learn he had taken TWO CLASSES in marketing to gain his "expertise." Like dude, you're a sophomore, not a business transformation expert. Leadership is a buzzword invented by administrators so that they can ignore SAT scores in favor of subjective and ever changing definitions of "personality" to broaden their admissions pool. The reality is that we get a lot of students who have been falsely indoctrinated by their parents, high schools, and others that they are leadership material, even though when they graduate they will probably be performing some menial task. It's not proven but I believe the inflation of young people's expectations that they will all be some kind of leader or world changer is contributing to depression in the late 20s/early 30s workforce

It can be hard when someone with so little life experience lectures those of us with lots. Yet, as I have watched my own DC go through this stage of development, I realized that their confidence and grand visions are a sign of passion, energy and optimism. As we age, we lose some of those qualities or they get tamped down.

Arrogance is bad, and kids have to put up with paying their dues. But no one who is too humble ever did great things. It is not like our generations have done an amazing job with the world. I am willing to give tomorrow's hot shots a turn to channel their talents and confidence to improving our social trajectory.

Anonymous wrote:They let non-leaders in of course, but favor leaders for recognition/merit/perhaps to tolerate lower than 25% stats.

Remember, they are building a community. Most schools give students lots of responsibilities (i.e. budgets to spend, famous speakers to choose/host, events to plan/manage, the adjudication of students who violate honor codes, etc.). That work will not happen unless they recruit kids who are change makers.

My kid recently saw a documentary about how big social media companies are using our data. It bothered her. She wrote to her school's president, provost, dept chairs, etc. They decided to pay to have the film shown on campus. My daughter has had to figure out how to arrange for the airing and she is now organizing a panel of faculty to discuss it afterwards. I love that her school let a student run with this programming initiative. And she is getting good experience learning how to make her idea happen.

Small example, but the point is, colleges rely on students to enhance the community for all members. They want to see some evidence that they will be "good citizens," not just passive recipients of education (like they might have been in elementary school).

most of those things happen based on inertia - the same frame work that a group used ten years ago will be used today. Good for your kid getting a moving shown and getting academics to bloviate- did she manage to get the school to look at software and IT provider agreements that it has signed and challenge any of the TOS?

I agree that schools are looking for donations and high-profile graduates. So schools use high school “leadership” (in part) as a proxy for rich/influential parents. Because wealthy parents can buy their kids influence & leadership positions starting at a young age. And, in my experience (went to an Ivy for professional school) the rich kids are more likely to become leaders. Not necessarily because they are smart (though many are), but because their parents are well-connected. Additionally the rich kids can take risks because they will have a soft landing even if a venture fails. It takes money to make money and all that.

Also, leaders have a “phenotype” - often tall or good looking men. This is often evident early - ie by high school. Leadership is fascinating - where I work there are women and quiet/conventionally unattractive men who I view as incredibly inspirational and I would “follow them into a fire”. However, they wouldn’t be labeled as a leader, and the current leadership would never let them into the “club” since they don’t have the right pedigree or the right look. Some do manage to break in, but it’s often due to fortuitous timing.

They let non-leaders in of course, but favor leaders for recognition/merit/perhaps to tolerate lower than 25% stats.

Remember, they are building a community. Most schools give students lots of responsibilities (i.e. budgets to spend, famous speakers to choose/host, events to plan/manage, the adjudication of students who violate honor codes, etc.). That work will not happen unless they recruit kids who are change makers.

My kid recently saw a documentary about how big social media companies are using our data. It bothered her. She wrote to her school's president, provost, dept chairs, etc. They decided to pay to have the film shown on campus. My daughter has had to figure out how to arrange for the airing and she is now organizing a panel of faculty to discuss it afterwards. I love that her school let a student run with this programming initiative. And she is getting good experience learning how to make her idea happen.

Small example, but the point is, colleges rely on students to enhance the community for all members. They want to see some evidence that they will be "good citizens," not just passive recipients of education (like they might have been in elementary school).

I think it’s strange too, op. For kids who are inclined that way, great-there are lots of genuinely passionate and active kids and I can see that they would be an asset to any class, much like a math genius or oboe prodigy. However, what I think happened a in practice is that many/most kids see “leadership” as a box to check and do they’re scrambling for those experiences to add to their applications rather than following their interests and strengths as they develop. I’ve told my child to stick to what they’re interested in and the roles they are suited for.

I think people get a very narrow view of what "leadership" is. My DS never had a leadership role in a club and in fact did very little with school clubs. He goes to a big, very competitive HS and a ton of people show up for any activity because so many are focused on building that college resume. He told me it doesn't matter if he shows up, they don't need him there. Which is true. And everyone wants to "start a club", which takes very little effort and no college is going to know how much or little you did with that.

DS did one service activity at our church for a long time, not a ton of total time, once a month for a few hours. I nagged him about "leadership" which he ignored and stuck with the one job he'd always done that seemed to not require much of him. But when he had to write about service for a college essay he talked about how he liked that job because he actually got to talk with the people he was serving and build relationships with them. By doing that quiet, non-leadership, job he was making a real contribution to the community and certainly making the guests feel welcome and connected in a way he wouldn't by dropping that job to sit on the leadership committee or taking some other higher-profile job. He got into VT when most of his friends with similar or better profiles got waitlisted and I would guess his service essay helped since service is very important to VT.

Anonymous wrote:Elite colleges are basically looking for one thing: evidence that you will someday be either very rich, very famous, or both. "Leadership" is an attempt to screen for that.

It's ridiculous, but you don't have to apply to those colleges. For most careers (other than the rich/ famous ones), it really doesn't matter where you went for undergrad.

True. However, one can be a leader in academia. Look at this one:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suzannah_Lipscomb