Anonymous
Post 04/10/2021 22:39     Subject: White Saviour Complex/grad school

‘I'd also note this, though. You have a long list above of all the things your family has done FOR people of color. You took in their babies, you visited them in the neighborhood, you ate at their restaurants. But I don't see anything about about what you did WITH people of color, nor what you did under their leadership. ‘

What they did in the 60s was not only engage but hosted dinners and mixers and befriended new families of color - not as a favor but because it was the way they began friendships that lasted through Vietnam, retirement to today. Yes my kid is way over it and as PP noted will have gained a lot going forward.

But please be patient as some of us do have friendships, marriages, relatives in our lives that indeed are testament to being WITH and working toGETHER regardless of race/ there seems to be a problem with even discussing that as fact without it also being misinterpreted in this board.
Anonymous
Post 04/09/2021 12:46     Subject: White Saviour Complex/grad school
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:It wasn’t a PAPER people! It was a live zoom presentation at the end of a tiring intense semester at a very multicultural graduate program abroad where many are there for the explicit reason of wanting to take their lifetime of awareness like nonother generation of rising white nationalism globally, diminishing resources regionally including 3rd world countries where plug-in stations are not high on their list- the whole pint of me the old white broad wondering about how woke people are being misinterpreted for being superior saviors because they, too, like their international peers, may want to affect change from the roots of the problem up.

It is getting pretty damn tiring to hear there are so many buzz words that must trickle down to the students who are in positions at selective grad programs from maybe their own parents to be suspicious of white kids also studying your cause. It is boring at a certain point, we all need each other and have to stol the labeling.

Finally, as I began this post- I’m a parent who always felt in DC we made conscious choices about weaving in our entire fabric of DC culture as important since our kids were born- I was raised Catholic which used to mean what Jesus taught/ help the poor, do unto others, give etc- and recognize we are all equal in the eus of God. I mentioned this discourse to my 90 ur old mother yesterday, who took in foster babies in the 60/ until they were adopted; who made a lint to invite the first black family on the block to a dinner party in 1970, who raised her children visiting all parts of DC and eating in restaurant Gs run by people of color (is that term still ok?). Her response? Through her hearing aide on the exam table where we hope it isn’t Lou Gehrig’s, while holding g her rosary, ‘what’s so bad about being a white savior? We were entitled and that’s what we should do’.

I mean people - we all want to get there. If there is a new code of ‘nuance’, one can’t extrapolate that a fellow grad student decided another student- based on his white skin even though his partner female presenter was Pakistani and in tandem with him- if we can’t see that perhaps the white savior label is an unconscious bias in itself that is part of the problem.


Oh, man. You need to disengage from this. You are telling the grandparents, angrily posting on DCUM, and I'm sure your son was over it days ago.

I'd also note this, though. You have a long list above of all the things your family has done FOR people of color. You took in their babies, you visited them in the neighborhood, you ate at their restaurants. But I don't see anything about about what you did WITH people of color, nor what you did under their leadership.

If your son took any of those attitudes with him to grad school, particularly as it appears he is K-MA without any fieldwork in between, then I can see why he's having his eyes opened by his peers now.


THIS.

If the only perspective that seeps out of your posts is noblesse oblige, then you are not helping in ways that will matter 10 or 15 years from now, and you are actively harming in some ways.


+1
A white person who cannot engage and reflect in these sorts of conversations is not going to be able to function in the field. It's not clear if only OP was upset on behalf of their son, or if the son was also upset. The best thing he can do is really take this critique to heart. I'm a white person who has spent a lot of time working in Black and Latino communities. I've need to understand and take seriously how I'm perceived and spend extra time and energy building trusting relationships and demonstrating my worth, It possible to be objectively super smart and accomplished and also offer nothing of value or cause harm to a community. If OP's son was my student, I would tell him to step back, let go of some of his ego, and really listen to others.
Anonymous
Post 04/09/2021 12:29     Subject: White Saviour Complex/grad school
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:It wasn’t a PAPER people! It was a live zoom presentation at the end of a tiring intense semester at a very multicultural graduate program abroad where many are there for the explicit reason of wanting to take their lifetime of awareness like nonother generation of rising white nationalism globally, diminishing resources regionally including 3rd world countries where plug-in stations are not high on their list- the whole pint of me the old white broad wondering about how woke people are being misinterpreted for being superior saviors because they, too, like their international peers, may want to affect change from the roots of the problem up.

It is getting pretty damn tiring to hear there are so many buzz words that must trickle down to the students who are in positions at selective grad programs from maybe their own parents to be suspicious of white kids also studying your cause. It is boring at a certain point, we all need each other and have to stol the labeling.

Finally, as I began this post- I’m a parent who always felt in DC we made conscious choices about weaving in our entire fabric of DC culture as important since our kids were born- I was raised Catholic which used to mean what Jesus taught/ help the poor, do unto others, give etc- and recognize we are all equal in the eus of God. I mentioned this discourse to my 90 ur old mother yesterday, who took in foster babies in the 60/ until they were adopted; who made a lint to invite the first black family on the block to a dinner party in 1970, who raised her children visiting all parts of DC and eating in restaurant Gs run by people of color (is that term still ok?). Her response? Through her hearing aide on the exam table where we hope it isn’t Lou Gehrig’s, while holding g her rosary, ‘what’s so bad about being a white savior? We were entitled and that’s what we should do’.

I mean people - we all want to get there. If there is a new code of ‘nuance’, one can’t extrapolate that a fellow grad student decided another student- based on his white skin even though his partner female presenter was Pakistani and in tandem with him- if we can’t see that perhaps the white savior label is an unconscious bias in itself that is part of the problem.


Oh, man. You need to disengage from this. You are telling the grandparents, angrily posting on DCUM, and I'm sure your son was over it days ago.

I'd also note this, though. You have a long list above of all the things your family has done FOR people of color. You took in their babies, you visited them in the neighborhood, you ate at their restaurants. But I don't see anything about about what you did WITH people of color, nor what you did under their leadership.

If your son took any of those attitudes with him to grad school, particularly as it appears he is K-MA without any fieldwork in between, then I can see why he's having his eyes opened by his peers now.


THIS.

If the only perspective that seeps out of your posts is noblesse oblige, then you are not helping in ways that will matter 10 or 15 years from now, and you are actively harming in some ways.
Anonymous
Post 04/09/2021 12:12     Subject: White Saviour Complex/grad school
Anonymous wrote:It wasn’t a PAPER people! It was a live zoom presentation at the end of a tiring intense semester at a very multicultural graduate program abroad where many are there for the explicit reason of wanting to take their lifetime of awareness like nonother generation of rising white nationalism globally, diminishing resources regionally including 3rd world countries where plug-in stations are not high on their list- the whole pint of me the old white broad wondering about how woke people are being misinterpreted for being superior saviors because they, too, like their international peers, may want to affect change from the roots of the problem up.

It is getting pretty damn tiring to hear there are so many buzz words that must trickle down to the students who are in positions at selective grad programs from maybe their own parents to be suspicious of white kids also studying your cause. It is boring at a certain point, we all need each other and have to stol the labeling.

Finally, as I began this post- I’m a parent who always felt in DC we made conscious choices about weaving in our entire fabric of DC culture as important since our kids were born- I was raised Catholic which used to mean what Jesus taught/ help the poor, do unto others, give etc- and recognize we are all equal in the eus of God. I mentioned this discourse to my 90 ur old mother yesterday, who took in foster babies in the 60/ until they were adopted; who made a lint to invite the first black family on the block to a dinner party in 1970, who raised her children visiting all parts of DC and eating in restaurant Gs run by people of color (is that term still ok?). Her response? Through her hearing aide on the exam table where we hope it isn’t Lou Gehrig’s, while holding g her rosary, ‘what’s so bad about being a white savior? We were entitled and that’s what we should do’.

I mean people - we all want to get there. If there is a new code of ‘nuance’, one can’t extrapolate that a fellow grad student decided another student- based on his white skin even though his partner female presenter was Pakistani and in tandem with him- if we can’t see that perhaps the white savior label is an unconscious bias in itself that is part of the problem.


Oh, man. You need to disengage from this. You are telling the grandparents, angrily posting on DCUM, and I'm sure your son was over it days ago.

I'd also note this, though. You have a long list above of all the things your family has done FOR people of color. You took in their babies, you visited them in the neighborhood, you ate at their restaurants. But I don't see anything about about what you did WITH people of color, nor what you did under their leadership.

If your son took any of those attitudes with him to grad school, particularly as it appears he is K-MA without any fieldwork in between, then I can see why he's having his eyes opened by his peers now.
Anonymous
Post 04/09/2021 12:02     Subject: White Saviour Complex/grad school
Anonymous wrote:It wasn’t a PAPER people! It was a live zoom presentation at the end of a tiring intense semester at a very multicultural graduate program abroad where many are there for the explicit reason of wanting to take their lifetime of awareness like nonother generation of rising white nationalism globally, diminishing resources regionally including 3rd world countries where plug-in stations are not high on their list- the whole pint of me the old white broad wondering about how woke people are being misinterpreted for being superior saviors because they, too, like their international peers, may want to affect change from the roots of the problem up.

It is getting pretty damn tiring to hear there are so many buzz words that must trickle down to the students who are in positions at selective grad programs from maybe their own parents to be suspicious of white kids also studying your cause. It is boring at a certain point, we all need each other and have to stol the labeling.

Finally, as I began this post- I’m a parent who always felt in DC we made conscious choices about weaving in our entire fabric of DC culture as important since our kids were born- I was raised Catholic which used to mean what Jesus taught/ help the poor, do unto others, give etc- and recognize we are all equal in the eus of God. I mentioned this discourse to my 90 ur old mother yesterday, who took in foster babies in the 60/ until they were adopted; who made a lint to invite the first black family on the block to a dinner party in 1970, who raised her children visiting all parts of DC and eating in restaurant Gs run by people of color (is that term still ok?). Her response? Through her hearing aide on the exam table where we hope it isn’t Lou Gehrig’s, while holding g her rosary, ‘what’s so bad about being a white savior? We were entitled and that’s what we should do’.

I mean people - we all want to get there. If there is a new code of ‘nuance’, one can’t extrapolate that a fellow grad student decided another student- based on his white skin even though his partner female presenter was Pakistani and in tandem with him- if we can’t see that perhaps the white savior label is an unconscious bias in itself that is part of the problem.


You are way too invested in this. I assume you know nothing about the international development field (at least it seems that way), and you are getting your information from your 22 year old "kid" who is off in grad school rather than working for a few years in int'l development to see if he actually likes the work. The concern about white saviorism has been around around a long ntime in the international development community, and has tried to be addressed in various ways institutionally and programmatically since at least the mid 90s, so, this is nothing new. I used to work with a program that placed POC in undergraduate internships in the international health field. These kids were always shocked when they went to Latin American and African countries and people viewed them as privileged Americans rather than "one of them". In my experience, if you are an American of any color, you are going to be suspect for "white saviorism"and basically seen as a walking checkbook. It is hard not to get very jaded in this field. The more you know, the more you wonder if you are actually helping. Your kid is going to need to grow a thick skin and learn that there are lots of challenges in trying to address poverty, hunger, etc. in developing countries. We haven't figure it out in this country, not sure why we think we'd do any better overseas!
Anonymous
Post 04/09/2021 01:34     Subject: White Saviour Complex/grad school
Anonymous wrote:It wasn’t a PAPER people! It was a live zoom presentation at the end of a tiring intense semester at a very multicultural graduate program abroad where many are there for the explicit reason of wanting to take their lifetime of awareness like nonother generation of rising white nationalism globally, diminishing resources regionally including 3rd world countries where plug-in stations are not high on their list- the whole pint of me the old white broad wondering about how woke people are being misinterpreted for being superior saviors because they, too, like their international peers, may want to affect change from the roots of the problem up.

It is getting pretty damn tiring to hear there are so many buzz words that must trickle down to the students who are in positions at selective grad programs from maybe their own parents to be suspicious of white kids also studying your cause. It is boring at a certain point, we all need each other and have to stol the labeling.

Finally, as I began this post- I’m a parent who always felt in DC we made conscious choices about weaving in our entire fabric of DC culture as important since our kids were born- I was raised Catholic which used to mean what Jesus taught/ help the poor, do unto others, give etc- and recognize we are all equal in the eus of God. I mentioned this discourse to my 90 ur old mother yesterday, who took in foster babies in the 60/ until they were adopted; who made a lint to invite the first black family on the block to a dinner party in 1970, who raised her children visiting all parts of DC and eating in restaurant Gs run by people of color (is that term still ok?). Her response? Through her hearing aide on the exam table where we hope it isn’t Lou Gehrig’s, while holding g her rosary, ‘what’s so bad about being a white savior? We were entitled and that’s what we should do’.

I mean people - we all want to get there. If there is a new code of ‘nuance’, one can’t extrapolate that a fellow grad student decided another student- based on his white skin even though his partner female presenter was Pakistani and in tandem with him- if we can’t see that perhaps the white savior label is an unconscious bias in itself that is part of the problem.


-Or perhaps the “white savior “ comment was made because of actual comments or behavior. There is no way to assess this based on the information provided. It could have been quite conscious and quite deliberate and more related to actual behavior than bias. Again, the details that would allow us to assess this haven’t been provided. You seem to be twisting yourself into knots to avoid the possibility that actual behavior might be the critical factor here — not “ unconscious bias” or “white”skin, or the relevance or irrelevance of a “Pakistani” co-presenter or a grandmother who ate in the same room with actual Black (capital B) people.

I’m not sure where you get the idea that students “from maybe their own parents to be suspicious or white kids also studying your cause”. If I’m understanding your point, I’m not clear why you’re unable to imagine that grad students in a selective program would be unable to formulate their own opinions based upon their own experiences and draw their own conclusions.






Anonymous
Post 04/08/2021 21:19     Subject: White Saviour Complex/grad school
It wasn’t a PAPER people! It was a live zoom presentation at the end of a tiring intense semester at a very multicultural graduate program abroad where many are there for the explicit reason of wanting to take their lifetime of awareness like nonother generation of rising white nationalism globally, diminishing resources regionally including 3rd world countries where plug-in stations are not high on their list- the whole pint of me the old white broad wondering about how woke people are being misinterpreted for being superior saviors because they, too, like their international peers, may want to affect change from the roots of the problem up.

It is getting pretty damn tiring to hear there are so many buzz words that must trickle down to the students who are in positions at selective grad programs from maybe their own parents to be suspicious of white kids also studying your cause. It is boring at a certain point, we all need each other and have to stol the labeling.

Finally, as I began this post- I’m a parent who always felt in DC we made conscious choices about weaving in our entire fabric of DC culture as important since our kids were born- I was raised Catholic which used to mean what Jesus taught/ help the poor, do unto others, give etc- and recognize we are all equal in the eus of God. I mentioned this discourse to my 90 ur old mother yesterday, who took in foster babies in the 60/ until they were adopted; who made a lint to invite the first black family on the block to a dinner party in 1970, who raised her children visiting all parts of DC and eating in restaurant Gs run by people of color (is that term still ok?). Her response? Through her hearing aide on the exam table where we hope it isn’t Lou Gehrig’s, while holding g her rosary, ‘what’s so bad about being a white savior? We were entitled and that’s what we should do’.

I mean people - we all want to get there. If there is a new code of ‘nuance’, one can’t extrapolate that a fellow grad student decided another student- based on his white skin even though his partner female presenter was Pakistani and in tandem with him- if we can’t see that perhaps the white savior label is an unconscious bias in itself that is part of the problem.
Anonymous
Post 04/08/2021 21:05     Subject: Re:White Saviour Complex/grad school
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:This is why I'm pushing my kids to go to business school and make millions.

You guys simply cannot be pleased.


+1. Avoid nonprofit and intl development work at all costs. Just not worth it. You’ll be vilified and underpaid. Lose-lose


+2. No way in hell.
Anonymous
Post 04/08/2021 21:00     Subject: White Saviour Complex/grad school
PP please see post from 17:35
Anonymous
Post 04/08/2021 19:54     Subject: White Saviour Complex/grad school
Anonymous wrote:Without seeing your son's paper, I can't opine on whether it was problematic. But...it might have been.

Just because your child attended global majority schools does not inoculate him from neo-colonialist or US-centric thought processes and reflexes.


+100

OP your post lacks nuance that would help explain what happened in your son’s case.
Anonymous
Post 04/08/2021 19:53     Subject: Re:White Saviour Complex/grad school
Anonymous wrote:This is why I'm pushing my kids to go to business school and make millions.

You guys simply cannot be pleased.


+1. Avoid nonprofit and intl development work at all costs. Just not worth it. You’ll be vilified and underpaid. Lose-lose
Anonymous
Post 04/08/2021 19:35     Subject: White Saviour Complex/grad school
Anonymous wrote:PS. the label was 'white savior' so therein color is used so that is identifying a person by their race rather than their individuality as well.


Yeah, really it should be Western Savior syndrome. Or rich-country savior syndrome. I have seen articles about Black voluntourists in Africa that point out the same problematic mindset: we’re here from a place of superiority to help.
Anonymous
Post 04/08/2021 17:37     Subject: Re:White Saviour Complex/grad school
This is why I'm pushing my kids to go to business school and make millions.

You guys simply cannot be pleased.
Anonymous
Post 04/08/2021 17:35     Subject: White Saviour Complex/grad school
The comment was prompted when resents took concluded on addressing problems in Central America with coming US funds. After the presentation during discussion a student asked why she had not heard more about the way the citizens in these regions felt about about it, and the two presenters were probably flat footed and had focused more on strategy, and felt it was implied in the community building. A few students stayed on zoom and the student went further that he seemed to have white savior syndrome. Look I wasn’t there, but the whole thing was hypothetical and he felt it was just a convenient way to criticize a presentation praised by the professor.
Anonymous
Post 04/08/2021 15:40     Subject: White Saviour Complex/grad school
Anonymous wrote:PS. the label was 'white savior' so therein color is used so that is identifying a person by their race rather than their individuality as well.


True, but without knowing what prompted the comment, it’s hard, for me at least, to know how to take that.

I’ll go out on a limb here and add that if what prompted the comment was something egregiously Euro-centric, than I get it, and can even imagine situations when such a response might seem less cruel than one that was sharply honed to be more personal. .