Anonymous wrote:Class sizes are small. I don't know the numbers off hand but I think in the upper grades it's like 15.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^p.s.: But I’m sure Payne is improving and that it’s trajectory is positive. I just don’t buy that it’s all perfect now in upper grades.

nobody said it was perfect. if you want your kids surrounded only by kids just like them, the Hill may not be for you.

Anonymous wrote:^^p.s.: But I’m sure Payne is improving and that it’s trajectory is positive. I just don’t buy that it’s all perfect now in upper grades.

Another Cap Hill mom and I have to agree. The sad truth is that it can be very hard to form a tight knit school community at a school that is facing challenges as simple as having high numbers of kids who do not get proper nutrition or are housing insecure. It's hard for any kid to feel nurtured in an environment where many kids are experiencing poverty.

I think the choice between a "high-performing school" and a "nurturing school" makes more sense if you are looking at private schools or are in a district with a lot of socio-economic homogeneity (and little poverty). I even see this discussion among folks who are focused solely on charters within the District. But at DCPS schools, the dynamics are different. I hate the idea of dividing schools into "good" versus "weak" but on the East side at least, that does seem to be what happens. The schools with higher test scores also tend to have higher overall attendance, more parent involvement, better teacher retention, etc. -- all the stuff that helps contribute to a better, more nurturing school environment.

Anonymous wrote:So, the perspective you are missing is that bc it's such a small community the teachers in the upper grades have plenty of bandwidth to differentiate. So the higher performing kids get personalized attention.

Anonymous wrote:So, the perspective you are missing is that bc it's such a small community the teachers in the upper grades have plenty of bandwidth to differentiate. So the higher performing kids get personalized attention.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honestly, if you have a little kid or baby and you're overwhelming focus is already that they must have a "high performing peer group," that's a pretty stressful way to live. You have no idea what kind of kid you'll have. You may have a kid who blossoms being a leader if they truly are "high performing." You may find that (gasp) your child actually is not "high performing" and your kid is a solid 3 or 4. You may find that it's more important for you to have a small, nurturing school than your kid being part of a huge cohort of a "high performing peer group." You may find that your little 5 actually gets more "differentiation" as an outlier. You may even find that those 3s are nice and good friends to your "high performer" and that is more important than anything else. There may be many non-academic factors that are more important, like access to a good aftercare program, a shorter commute, a tight school community with friends in the neighborhood, and of course, housing costs. At the end of the day, this is *elementary school." There are a lot of things much, much more important than your kid being surrounded by 5s, and you actually have no idea how your kid's social, emotional, and academic trajectories are going to work out. Advanced learning and "high performing peer groups" can come later.

PP: As the mom of two kids with IEPs, I absolutely agree with many of your sentiments, since I've certainly had to adjust my expectations for my kids based on their own social, emotional and academic trajectories. That said, your post fails to take into account the huge discipline challenges that often plague lower-performing schools, due no doubt to the high numbers of broken families, economic challenges, homelessness, etc. If you want a "small, nurturing school" that values "your kid's social, emotional and academic trajectories," you're far more likely to find that at a high-performing school.

Signed,
Capitol Hill mom who learned the hard-way

Another Cap Hill mom and I have to agree. The sad truth is that it can be very hard to form a tight knit school community at a school that is facing challenges as simple as having high numbers of kids who do not get proper nutrition or are housing insecure. It's hard for any kid to feel nurtured in an environment where many kids are experiencing poverty.

I think the choice between a "high-performing school" and a "nurturing school" makes more sense if you are looking at private schools or are in a district with a lot of socio-economic homogeneity (and little poverty). I even see this discussion among folks who are focused solely on charters within the District. But at DCPS schools, the dynamics are different. I hate the idea of dividing schools into "good" versus "weak" but on the East side at least, that does seem to be what happens. The schools with higher test scores also tend to have higher overall attendance, more parent involvement, better teacher retention, etc. -- all the stuff that helps contribute to a better, more nurturing school environment.

but look at the numbers - Payne is solid. I don’t see any indication that it is a “low performing” school; it just has a higher percentage of at-risk kids. My personal experience has been that my own kid with an IEP does much better in a setting where the school is trying to serve needs of a variety of kids as opposed to catering to the expectations of the parents who demand everything for their “high performing peer group.”

to be clear ... what I am saying is that the nurturing comes from teachers, staff, and admins with expertise and sensitivity. Not from moms who have a ton of time to volunteer for the PTA and making the auction as lucrative as possible to fund pet projects.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honestly, if you have a little kid or baby and you're overwhelming focus is already that they must have a "high performing peer group," that's a pretty stressful way to live. You have no idea what kind of kid you'll have. You may have a kid who blossoms being a leader if they truly are "high performing." You may find that (gasp) your child actually is not "high performing" and your kid is a solid 3 or 4. You may find that it's more important for you to have a small, nurturing school than your kid being part of a huge cohort of a "high performing peer group." You may find that your little 5 actually gets more "differentiation" as an outlier. You may even find that those 3s are nice and good friends to your "high performer" and that is more important than anything else. There may be many non-academic factors that are more important, like access to a good aftercare program, a shorter commute, a tight school community with friends in the neighborhood, and of course, housing costs. At the end of the day, this is *elementary school." There are a lot of things much, much more important than your kid being surrounded by 5s, and you actually have no idea how your kid's social, emotional, and academic trajectories are going to work out. Advanced learning and "high performing peer groups" can come later.

PP: As the mom of two kids with IEPs, I absolutely agree with many of your sentiments, since I've certainly had to adjust my expectations for my kids based on their own social, emotional and academic trajectories. That said, your post fails to take into account the huge discipline challenges that often plague lower-performing schools, due no doubt to the high numbers of broken families, economic challenges, homelessness, etc. If you want a "small, nurturing school" that values "your kid's social, emotional and academic trajectories," you're far more likely to find that at a high-performing school.

Signed,
Capitol Hill mom who learned the hard-way

Another Cap Hill mom and I have to agree. The sad truth is that it can be very hard to form a tight knit school community at a school that is facing challenges as simple as having high numbers of kids who do not get proper nutrition or are housing insecure. It's hard for any kid to feel nurtured in an environment where many kids are experiencing poverty.

I think the choice between a "high-performing school" and a "nurturing school" makes more sense if you are looking at private schools or are in a district with a lot of socio-economic homogeneity (and little poverty). I even see this discussion among folks who are focused solely on charters within the District. But at DCPS schools, the dynamics are different. I hate the idea of dividing schools into "good" versus "weak" but on the East side at least, that does seem to be what happens. The schools with higher test scores also tend to have higher overall attendance, more parent involvement, better teacher retention, etc. -- all the stuff that helps contribute to a better, more nurturing school environment.

but look at the numbers - Payne is solid. I don’t see any indication that it is a “low performing” school; it just has a higher percentage of at-risk kids. My personal experience has been that my own kid with an IEP does much better in a setting where the school is trying to serve needs of a variety of kids as opposed to catering to the expectations of the parents who demand everything for their “high performing peer group.”

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honestly, if you have a little kid or baby and you're overwhelming focus is already that they must have a "high performing peer group," that's a pretty stressful way to live. You have no idea what kind of kid you'll have. You may have a kid who blossoms being a leader if they truly are "high performing." You may find that (gasp) your child actually is not "high performing" and your kid is a solid 3 or 4. You may find that it's more important for you to have a small, nurturing school than your kid being part of a huge cohort of a "high performing peer group." You may find that your little 5 actually gets more "differentiation" as an outlier. You may even find that those 3s are nice and good friends to your "high performer" and that is more important than anything else. There may be many non-academic factors that are more important, like access to a good aftercare program, a shorter commute, a tight school community with friends in the neighborhood, and of course, housing costs. At the end of the day, this is *elementary school." There are a lot of things much, much more important than your kid being surrounded by 5s, and you actually have no idea how your kid's social, emotional, and academic trajectories are going to work out. Advanced learning and "high performing peer groups" can come later.

PP: As the mom of two kids with IEPs, I absolutely agree with many of your sentiments, since I've certainly had to adjust my expectations for my kids based on their own social, emotional and academic trajectories. That said, your post fails to take into account the huge discipline challenges that often plague lower-performing schools, due no doubt to the high numbers of broken families, economic challenges, homelessness, etc. If you want a "small, nurturing school" that values "your kid's social, emotional and academic trajectories," you're far more likely to find that at a high-performing school.

Signed,
Capitol Hill mom who learned the hard-way

Another Cap Hill mom and I have to agree. The sad truth is that it can be very hard to form a tight knit school community at a school that is facing challenges as simple as having high numbers of kids who do not get proper nutrition or are housing insecure. It's hard for any kid to feel nurtured in an environment where many kids are experiencing poverty.

I think the choice between a "high-performing school" and a "nurturing school" makes more sense if you are looking at private schools or are in a district with a lot of socio-economic homogeneity (and little poverty). I even see this discussion among folks who are focused solely on charters within the District. But at DCPS schools, the dynamics are different. I hate the idea of dividing schools into "good" versus "weak" but on the East side at least, that does seem to be what happens. The schools with higher test scores also tend to have higher overall attendance, more parent involvement, better teacher retention, etc. -- all the stuff that helps contribute to a better, more nurturing school environment.

Anonymous wrote:Honestly, if you have a little kid or baby and you're overwhelming focus is already that they must have a "high performing peer group," that's a pretty stressful way to live. You have no idea what kind of kid you'll have. You may have a kid who blossoms being a leader if they truly are "high performing." You may find that (gasp) your child actually is not "high performing" and your kid is a solid 3 or 4. You may find that it's more important for you to have a small, nurturing school than your kid being part of a huge cohort of a "high performing peer group." You may find that your little 5 actually gets more "differentiation" as an outlier. You may even find that those 3s are nice and good friends to your "high performer" and that is more important than anything else. There may be many non-academic factors that are more important, like access to a good aftercare program, a shorter commute, a tight school community with friends in the neighborhood, and of course, housing costs. At the end of the day, this is *elementary school." There are a lot of things much, much more important than your kid being surrounded by 5s, and you actually have no idea how your kid's social, emotional, and academic trajectories are going to work out. Advanced learning and "high performing peer groups" can come later.

PP: As the mom of two kids with IEPs, I absolutely agree with many of your sentiments, since I've certainly had to adjust my expectations for my kids based on their own social, emotional and academic trajectories. That said, your post fails to take into account the huge discipline challenges that often plague lower-performing schools, due no doubt to the high numbers of broken families, economic challenges, homelessness, etc. If you want a "small, nurturing school" that values "your kid's social, emotional and academic trajectories," you're far more likely to find that at a high-performing school.

Signed,
Capitol Hill mom who learned the hard-way