Oh, and our eyes actually take things in upside down and project it: as our face is reflected back in a mirror.

Not seeing face to face.

Think of what you look liked when you looked in the mirror. Can you remember? Most people can’t.

How about a picture? You can remember that.

Why is it so hard to remember your own face in near real time?

Now we know in part, and are understood in part. Then we will know and understand face to face.

What literal principle allowing passage and the existence of light and darkness would carve out a path for a soul and psyche to exert free will, out of the commands of creation?

So.many.Questions!!

Everyone, think outside of boundary.

Apply this principle in terms of a hypothetical action that creates astronomical principles in space. Consider time, gravity, realms, elements for life, and the Sun/Son.

See anything different when you loook through that lens?

A picture of a black hole looks just like a human pupil - a window to a soul indescribable, but existing. We see projections of light in the welecteomagnetic waves allowing our mind to make sense of it all.

We guard ourselves with the helmet of salvation. How would salvation protect a mind?

How would an enemy remove the threat of one?

Food for thought.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The penalty for sin against an infinitely holy God is death. Adam and Eve were made sinless, and therefore immortal. Then they sinned, and death entered the world. So there is a problem: God is perfectly holy. And God is perfectly just. If He decided to just wave away the sin, he would no longer be just. But He very much loved Adam and Eve, so He set up a system wherein when they sinned, they could offer a sacrifice that would “take the penalty“ of the sin (die) and they would still be in God‘s presence. The Old Testament is basically one long series of this contract sin (break with God)-death (sacrifice)-reconcile.
One man, Jesus, ended this cycle. He lived a perfectly sinless life, but took on every one of our sins at his death, and therefore paid the permanent price for us to be with God forever.

How in heaven could they sin???

Then they sinned

They did not know right from wrong until they ate the apple. So BEFORE they ate the apple they could not sin because they did not know what they were doing. Once they got the knowledge, then this is another story but how can you say they sin if they did not have the faculties YET.

God specifically told them not to eat the apple, so, while they may not have known sin, they knew what disobedience was and they went ahead and ate the apple anyhow and doomed the rest of humanity forever. If you believe the story, that is.

So if I put a bowl of chocolate ice cream in front of my toddlers that don't know any better, my 'perfect' creations, told them "don't eat the chocolate ice cream" and left.

They are forever damned and they have damned all of humanity because they took a spoon of the ice cream. That was my punishment to them and the rest of humanity for them not obeying.

Then later down the road, I was tired of holding a grudge against humanity and decided to have another kid. Told that one to tell everyone how bad they are and to get himself killed. This way I could show everyone who's really boss and make them understand that they are bad and need to love me or else spend eternal damnation in a ring of fire with a psychotic little red man.

Adam and Eve were created sinless. But God gave them a free will. By its definition, in order to be free, they had to be able to choose against God. God told them at the outset “I give you this whole world. Don’t eat that fruit. If you do, you cannot live with me in this garden.” It was their free choice. After that, there was no return to a sinless state. Every human being that followed had a sinful nature, which is basically a bent towards being your own god and doing things your way.

Why?

Why would a loving God kick them out forever? Would a loving parent do that? You ate the ice scream, now out of my house!

Why is there "no return", that's incredibly harsh. Why do these created figures determine the destiny of all people after them?

If the point is free will, why punish for a choice made out of free will?

It's more like a trap. I'm going to lay this mouse trap for you with this bit of cheese that I know you won't be able to resist. Now all the mice after you will also be trapped the same way because that's the purpose of creating the trap. Until I send down a rabbit to be killed for you cheese eating fools so you can learn to beg for forgiveness for touching the trap I set you up to fail with.

And who heard God say don't eat the apple or did he tell someone else later on that he told them not to eat the apple? If there were only him, Adam, and Eve, then it had to be later. So he told Jesus or some other sinning mortal?

Then they tell everyone that their original ancestor wasn't supposed to eat an apple but they did, now they are all sinners and bad people that need to repent. Is it like a "sins of the father" thing so all of humanity bears the burden of Adam and Eve? Like intergenerational transmigratory sin? But there is never an end to that sin then, so what's the point of believing in Jesus?

So "Saved" sinners go to heaven and "Unsaved" sinners to hell? The whole story is sad and kinda sadistic.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The penalty for sin against an infinitely holy God is death. Adam and Eve were made sinless, and therefore immortal. Then they sinned, and death entered the world. So there is a problem: God is perfectly holy. And God is perfectly just. If He decided to just wave away the sin, he would no longer be just. But He very much loved Adam and Eve, so He set up a system wherein when they sinned, they could offer a sacrifice that would “take the penalty“ of the sin (die) and they would still be in God‘s presence. The Old Testament is basically one long series of this contract sin (break with God)-death (sacrifice)-reconcile.
One man, Jesus, ended this cycle. He lived a perfectly sinless life, but took on every one of our sins at his death, and therefore paid the permanent price for us to be with God forever.

How in heaven could they sin???

Then they sinned

They did not know right from wrong until they ate the apple. So BEFORE they ate the apple they could not sin because they did not know what they were doing. Once they got the knowledge, then this is another story but how can you say they sin if they did not have the faculties YET.

God specifically told them not to eat the apple, so, while they may not have known sin, they knew what disobedience was and they went ahead and ate the apple anyhow and doomed the rest of humanity forever. If you believe the story, that is.

So if I put a bowl of chocolate ice cream in front of my toddlers that don't know any better, my 'perfect' creations, told them "don't eat the chocolate ice cream" and left.

They are forever damned and they have damned all of humanity because they took a spoon of the ice cream. That was my punishment to them and the rest of humanity for them not obeying.

Then later down the road, I was tired of holding a grudge against humanity and decided to have another kid. Told that one to tell everyone how bad they are and to get himself killed. This way I could show everyone who's really boss and make them understand that they are bad and need to love me or else spend eternal damnation in a ring of fire with a psychotic little red man.

Adam and Eve were created sinless. But God gave them a free will. By its definition, in order to be free, they had to be able to choose against God. God told them at the outset “I give you this whole world. Don’t eat that fruit. If you do, you cannot live with me in this garden.” It was their free choice. After that, there was no return to a sinless state. Every human being that followed had a sinful nature, which is basically a bent towards being your own god and doing things your way.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The penalty for sin against an infinitely holy God is death. Adam and Eve were made sinless, and therefore immortal. Then they sinned, and death entered the world. So there is a problem: God is perfectly holy. And God is perfectly just. If He decided to just wave away the sin, he would no longer be just. But He very much loved Adam and Eve, so He set up a system wherein when they sinned, they could offer a sacrifice that would “take the penalty“ of the sin (die) and they would still be in God‘s presence. The Old Testament is basically one long series of this contract sin (break with God)-death (sacrifice)-reconcile.
One man, Jesus, ended this cycle. He lived a perfectly sinless life, but took on every one of our sins at his death, and therefore paid the permanent price for us to be with God forever.

How in heaven could they sin???

Then they sinned

They did not know right from wrong until they ate the apple. So BEFORE they ate the apple they could not sin because they did not know what they were doing. Once they got the knowledge, then this is another story but how can you say they sin if they did not have the faculties YET.

God specifically told them not to eat the apple, so, while they may not have known sin, they knew what disobedience was and they went ahead and ate the apple anyhow and doomed the rest of humanity forever. If you believe the story, that is.

So if I put a bowl of chocolate ice cream in front of my toddlers that don't know any better, my 'perfect' creations, told them "don't eat the chocolate ice cream" and left.

They are forever damned and they have damned all of humanity because they took a spoon of the ice cream. That was my punishment to them and the rest of humanity for them not obeying.

Then later down the road, I was tired of holding a grudge against humanity and decided to have another kid. Told that one to tell everyone how bad they are and to get himself killed. This way I could show everyone who's really boss and make them understand that they are bad and need to love me or else spend eternal damnation in a ring of fire with a psychotic little red man.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The penalty for sin against an infinitely holy God is death. Adam and Eve were made sinless, and therefore immortal. Then they sinned, and death entered the world. So there is a problem: God is perfectly holy. And God is perfectly just. If He decided to just wave away the sin, he would no longer be just. But He very much loved Adam and Eve, so He set up a system wherein when they sinned, they could offer a sacrifice that would “take the penalty“ of the sin (die) and they would still be in God‘s presence. The Old Testament is basically one long series of this contract sin (break with God)-death (sacrifice)-reconcile.
One man, Jesus, ended this cycle. He lived a perfectly sinless life, but took on every one of our sins at his death, and therefore paid the permanent price for us to be with God forever.

How in heaven could they sin???

Then they sinned

They did not know right from wrong until they ate the apple. So BEFORE they ate the apple they could not sin because they did not know what they were doing. Once they got the knowledge, then this is another story but how can you say they sin if they did not have the faculties YET.

God specifically told them not to eat the apple, so, while they may not have known sin, they knew what disobedience was and they went ahead and ate the apple anyhow and doomed the rest of humanity forever. If you believe the story, that is.

Anonymous wrote:The penalty for sin against an infinitely holy God is death. Adam and Eve were made sinless, and therefore immortal. Then they sinned, and death entered the world. So there is a problem: God is perfectly holy. And God is perfectly just. If He decided to just wave away the sin, he would no longer be just. But He very much loved Adam and Eve, so He set up a system wherein when they sinned, they could offer a sacrifice that would “take the penalty“ of the sin (die) and they would still be in God‘s presence. The Old Testament is basically one long series of this contract sin (break with God)-death (sacrifice)-reconcile.
One man, Jesus, ended this cycle. He lived a perfectly sinless life, but took on every one of our sins at his death, and therefore paid the permanent price for us to be with God forever.

How in heaven could they sin???

Then they sinned

They did not know right from wrong until they ate the apple. So BEFORE they ate the apple they could not sin because they did not know what they were doing. Once they got the knowledge, then this is another story but how can you say they sin if they did not have the faculties YET.

Anonymous wrote:OP, I'm not a Biblical scholar, but I am an evangelical Christian and am happy to take a stab at this for you, especially since no one else here will!

To say that Jesus "Redeemed" humanity is to say that He saved us from ourselves - our sin, which is what separates us from God. We are all sinners - everyone of us - me, you, every DCUM reader, everyone. Sin and God cannot co-exist. So because we have it in our lives, we cannot be reunited with God, either here on earth or in the afterlife in Heaven.

Jesus took that sin, died on the cross, went to hell and rose again from the dead. He conquered sin, and death and through Him, we can have the same victory. It is the ultimate redemption because we could never be good enough or in any other way save ourselves. He is our only hope.

Why did He do it? Because God so loved us. He literally sent His Son to die for us in an attempt to get us back.

HOW?

Jesus took that sin, died on the cross, went to hell and rose again from the dead. He conquered sin

So it is not about ORIGINAL sin? The Adam and Eve one? Which sin exactly was this? Also doesn't church distinguish between mortal sins and ordinary sins? Saying.. if it is mortal sin you are pretty much as good as baked, but for the other you can be redeemed and if Jesus redeemed you then why do you need to
repent and all that? If Jesus redeemed you ahead of time it should be already taken care of right?

And as to the original sin and those sins that supposed to anger God to bring upon the Flood, weren't those forgiven upon entering into the covenant and that rainbow promise?

I am quite lost on the concept of the very sin that needed to be forgiven. And also why would God need a sacrifice of his son? Not to mention he had only one... in order to forgive the entire humanity?

Is it like Jesus came here to prove that a human can live a life without a sin so that was the thing that did the whole forgiveness?

But Jesus got mad in the temple flipped those tables, even if the intention is good but the sheer.. anger.. anger is sin so in theory he also sinned..

Jesus send the demons into the innocent pigs (of course it is curious why there were pig in the population that followed Jewish laws that prohibited eating unclean animals but that is another question for another day) but non the less that was pretty bad thing to do to send innocent animals into the oblivion. Sounds like animal cruelty if you ask me.

Of course it is all faith based but the lack of logic in this is kind of .. bugling because God is a loving father,
so here he has one son and he need this son to die to prove something to make a way for humans?
How dying and coming from the dead also has anything to do with anything? Redemption wise.
Yes, it is certainly good slelling point as far as the faith base but then again. HOW? is this part of the redemption?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Anybody else wonder if God, in a second attempt at creation, managed to make a world with perfect people without sin who didn’t end up sinning like Adam and Eve and therefore didn’t need a child of God to be born to die for them?

God would be pretty bored and churches would be out of business

God loves redeemed man more than Adam and Eve. A child who loves you because they choose to is sweeter than a child who can’t choose otherwise.

And children who don't believe in you because they can't see you go to hell for eternity. Their choice.

The children who believe in God don’t see Him, either. But evidence of God is everywhere, and it is our choice to accept God or reject Him.

The kind of evidence that would stand up in court is nowhere. You must have faith to believe in God. And many people never make the choice to accept or reject because they have never been religious.

Everyone is religious, because you are created to worship. Everyone has a god they adore, whether that’s their children or football or work or food or other people’s approval or the favorite, your own self. God gives you the choice: accept He’s God or one of those things. But there’s never been a choice of no religion at all.

Everyone is religious... except those who deny the premise and would never compare belief in the supernatural to pleasure they receive from various life activities

Anonymous wrote:OP here is a Catholic explanation:

http://www.saintaquinas.com/what_is_the_redemption.html

and here is a resource if you have more questions:

https://relevantradio.com/listen/our-shows/the-patrick-madrid-show/

I think of Jesus' torture and death as: would I go through that for other people? Even those I don't love?
To me that is what Jesus was teaching- yes you can love like that. We all can. What a wonderful world this would be if we loved each other as Jesus did.

What a wonderful world it would be if people who can't bring themselves to believe in Jesus never thought they would experience eternal suffering because of their lack of belief.

OP here is a Catholic explanation:

http://www.saintaquinas.com/what_is_the_redemption.html

and here is a resource if you have more questions:

https://relevantradio.com/listen/our-shows/the-patrick-madrid-show/

I think of Jesus' torture and death as: would I go through that for other people? Even those I don't love?
To me that is what Jesus was teaching- yes you can love like that. We all can. What a wonderful world this would be if we loved each other as Jesus did.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Anybody else wonder if God, in a second attempt at creation, managed to make a world with perfect people without sin who didn’t end up sinning like Adam and Eve and therefore didn’t need a child of God to be born to die for them?

God would be pretty bored and churches would be out of business

God loves redeemed man more than Adam and Eve. A child who loves you because they choose to is sweeter than a child who can’t choose otherwise.

And children who don't believe in you because they can't see you go to hell for eternity. Their choice.

The children who believe in God don’t see Him, either. But evidence of God is everywhere, and it is our choice to accept God or reject Him.

The kind of evidence that would stand up in court is nowhere. You must have faith to believe in God. And many people never make the choice to accept or reject because they have never been religious.

Everyone is religious, because you are created to worship. Everyone has a god they adore, whether that’s their children or football or work or food or other people’s approval or the favorite, your own self. God gives you the choice: accept He’s God or one of those things. But there’s never been a choice of no religion at all.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Anybody else wonder if God, in a second attempt at creation, managed to make a world with perfect people without sin who didn’t end up sinning like Adam and Eve and therefore didn’t need a child of God to be born to die for them?

God would be pretty bored and churches would be out of business

God loves redeemed man more than Adam and Eve. A child who loves you because they choose to is sweeter than a child who can’t choose otherwise.

And children who don't believe in you because they can't see you go to hell for eternity. Their choice.

The children who believe in God don’t see Him, either. But evidence of God is everywhere, and it is our choice to accept God or reject Him.

The kind of evidence that would stand up in court is nowhere. You must have faith to believe in God. And many people never make the choice to accept or reject because they have never been religious.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Anybody else wonder if God, in a second attempt at creation, managed to make a world with perfect people without sin who didn’t end up sinning like Adam and Eve and therefore didn’t need a child of God to be born to die for them?

God would be pretty bored and churches would be out of business

God loves redeemed man more than Adam and Eve. A child who loves you because they choose to is sweeter than a child who can’t choose otherwise.

And children who don't believe in you because they can't see you go to hell for eternity. Their choice.

The children who believe in God don’t see Him, either. But evidence of God is everywhere, and it is our choice to accept God or reject Him.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP I have never understood this either.

There were countless other people who "died on the cross" and suffered just as much, if not more than Jesus. Crucifixion was a common form of death by the Romans - Jesus' death and suffering were never special. For the life of me, I don't understand why all the other people who died on the cross didn't also "suffer for my sins."

Religion is weird. All religions are weird. They're all myths to convey a story, and hold no actual truth.

The difference is that Jesus, if you believe it, was no ordinary guy being crucified. What makes him special is that he was the Son of God, sent to earth by God to redeem us through his suffering on the cross.

Then, to prove his divinity, he rose from the dead after 3 days in the tomb and then later ascended into heaven to live eternally with his Father, and eventually his mother, a human, who came up to heaven even later.

How? Why? Why was Jesus' "suffering" a redemption for humanity, any different than the suffering by the thousand of others who were crucified and suffered on the cross? His suffering wasn't special. He didn't suffer more than others.

These myths are no more bizarre than ancient Egyptian mythology.