Anonymous
Post 02/11/2021 17:28     Subject: Please be honest- How much, if at all, does full pay help?
I know for a fact it helps. Why wouldn't it? Especially this year when every college is deep in the red. It also signals you'll be a big donor. I mean this is a no brainer if you're the college.
Anonymous
Post 02/11/2021 16:52     Subject: Please be honest- How much, if at all, does full pay help?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Cash isn't king, there are too many full pay applicants. GPA, however, is king...


How can something as inconsistent and easily manipulated as GPA be king? Most schools don't even post their average GPA on the CDS and those that do often show that they are reporting for a small percentage of student GPAs, and they don't disclose how they (re)calculated the GPA anyway.


Because test optional schools need a way to compare students and most don’t have the resources to know or care about which privates and public are more or less challenging than others in a random metro area hundreds of miles from their campus. The school will manipulate the GPA Toni weight it or strip PE and art and to turn it into a class rank of that isn’t provided, but it’s all going to be based off of GPA this year because there is nothing else to compare unhooked kids

+1. High school comparisons and the high school profile only go so far. I suspect there will be a lot of unexpected results next month.


This conspiratorial thinking and these unfounded conclusions are not helpful. Colleges do know the schools, have a history, and mine data on the success of students from them. They also know how to read the data from the profile and compare it to other applicants. They know what they are doing and organizationally they have been doing it a very ling time.

That doesn't mean they are perfect - but it means they mostly won't make mistakes and they will build the class they need.

The main reason for that is that it is pretty easy for them to pick qualified students, and the highly competitive colleges have plenty to choose from. You've all heard them say they could replace their entire accepted class with the next batch, then do that again, and never notice. It's been said at virtually every top-20 presentation I have attended.

PP is right. GPA is king and always will be.


Do you really think the the University of Wisconsin has enough applicants from West Potomac High that they have any idea about the quality of the school? Do you think they have the manpower to look into it, or do you think they say 4.6, maybe glance that the data sheet, and move on? These schools are being inundated with applications and they no longer have the easy first cut that SATs and ACTs provide
Anonymous
Post 02/11/2021 16:48     Subject: Please be honest- How much, if at all, does full pay help?
As someone who works at at private college in DC (not need-blind), I have attended many meetings to discuss how to get more international students because they don't count in ranking statistics and, since they don't qualify for aide (regardless of income), are great profit sources for the college. It makes you feel bad though, because many of these international students are not wealthy (despite the stereotypes), and families mortgage homes and businesses for a false hope that by attending college in the US, the students are more likely to get a local job and be allowed to stay after college.
Anonymous
Post 02/11/2021 09:49     Subject: Re:Please be honest- How much, if at all, does full pay help?
Anonymous wrote:Many colleges/universities, even highly selective ones, love international students (with the right test scores of course) because they pay full-tuition and then some. Can't tell me even though they are "need blind", application reviewers and read between the lines, like where the kids live (zip code which give clues on income), parent education level/profession, public or private schools (they know that families that live in certain zip codes and attend the big 3 in DC private are most likely paying full tuition and will likely pay full at their school). Especially with COVID, many schools (maybe not the top 20) have to seriously look at their financial health.

"Need Blind" is not truly so blind, there are other factors schools can look at to gather info on potential revenue.


"Can't tell" you? Despite 100% consistent assertions to the contrary, and not a single bit of evidence to support your claim, including not one confession from the thousands of former need-blind adcoms, a few dozen of whom have written tell-all books?

Clearly no one can tell you.

But we can tell everyone else. Schools that claim to be need blind in admissions are, in fact, need blind in admissions.

Anonymous
Post 02/11/2021 09:40     Subject: Re:Please be honest- How much, if at all, does full pay help?
Many colleges/universities, even highly selective ones, love international students (with the right test scores of course) because they pay full-tuition and then some. Can't tell me even though they are "need blind", application reviewers and read between the lines, like where the kids live (zip code which give clues on income), parent education level/profession, public or private schools (they know that families that live in certain zip codes and attend the big 3 in DC private are most likely paying full tuition and will likely pay full at their school). Especially with COVID, many schools (maybe not the top 20) have to seriously look at their financial health.

"Need Blind" is not truly so blind, there are other factors schools can look at to gather info on potential revenue.
Anonymous
Post 02/11/2021 09:34     Subject: Please be honest- How much, if at all, does full pay help?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Cash isn't king, there are too many full pay applicants. GPA, however, is king...


How can something as inconsistent and easily manipulated as GPA be king? Most schools don't even post their average GPA on the CDS and those that do often show that they are reporting for a small percentage of student GPAs, and they don't disclose how they (re)calculated the GPA anyway.


Because test optional schools need a way to compare students and most don’t have the resources to know or care about which privates and public are more or less challenging than others in a random metro area hundreds of miles from their campus. The school will manipulate the GPA Toni weight it or strip PE and art and to turn it into a class rank of that isn’t provided, but it’s all going to be based off of GPA this year because there is nothing else to compare unhooked kids

+1. High school comparisons and the high school profile only go so far. I suspect there will be a lot of unexpected results next month.


This conspiratorial thinking and these unfounded conclusions are not helpful. Colleges do know the schools, have a history, and mine data on the success of students from them. They also know how to read the data from the profile and compare it to other applicants. They know what they are doing and organizationally they have been doing it a very ling time.

That doesn't mean they are perfect - but it means they mostly won't make mistakes and they will build the class they need.

The main reason for that is that it is pretty easy for them to pick qualified students, and the highly competitive colleges have plenty to choose from. You've all heard them say they could replace their entire accepted class with the next batch, then do that again, and never notice. It's been said at virtually every top-20 presentation I have attended.

PP is right. GPA is king and always will be.
Anonymous
Post 02/11/2021 09:25     Subject: Please be honest- How much, if at all, does full pay help?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Cash isn't king, there are too many full pay applicants. GPA, however, is king...


How can something as inconsistent and easily manipulated as GPA be king? Most schools don't even post their average GPA on the CDS and those that do often show that they are reporting for a small percentage of student GPAs, and they don't disclose how they (re)calculated the GPA anyway.


Because test optional schools need a way to compare students and most don’t have the resources to know or care about which privates and public are more or less challenging than others in a random metro area hundreds of miles from their campus. The school will manipulate the GPA Toni weight it or strip PE and art and to turn it into a class rank of that isn’t provided, but it’s all going to be based off of GPA this year because there is nothing else to compare unhooked kids

+1. High school comparisons and the high school profile only go so far. I suspect there will be a lot of unexpected results next month.
Anonymous
Post 02/11/2021 09:21     Subject: Please be honest- How much, if at all, does full pay help?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Cash isn't king, there are too many full pay applicants. GPA, however, is king...


How can something as inconsistent and easily manipulated as GPA be king? Most schools don't even post their average GPA on the CDS and those that do often show that they are reporting for a small percentage of student GPAs, and they don't disclose how they (re)calculated the GPA anyway.
[b]

Every year each high school sends a class profile to the colleges receiving transcripts. The profile gives the exact GpA for the senior class including all the AP courses and number of students taking those courses. It provides the high and low GPA and median it takes an admissions office about ten seconds to figure out your child’s rank even if the high school says “we don’t rank”.
Anonymous
Post 02/11/2021 09:21     Subject: Please be honest- How much, if at all, does full pay help?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Cash isn't king, there are too many full pay applicants. GPA, however, is king...


How can something as inconsistent and easily manipulated as GPA be king? Most schools don't even post their average GPA on the CDS and those that do often show that they are reporting for a small percentage of student GPAs, and they don't disclose how they (re)calculated the GPA anyway.


Because test optional schools need a way to compare students and most don’t have the resources to know or care about which privates and public are more or less challenging than others in a random metro area hundreds of miles from their campus. The school will manipulate the GPA Toni weight it or strip PE and art and to turn it into a class rank of that isn’t provided, but it’s all going to be based off of GPA this year because there is nothing else to compare unhooked kids
Anonymous
Post 02/11/2021 09:13     Subject: Please be honest- How much, if at all, does full pay help?
Anonymous wrote:Cash isn't king, there are too many full pay applicants. GPA, however, is king...


How can something as inconsistent and easily manipulated as GPA be king? Most schools don't even post their average GPA on the CDS and those that do often show that they are reporting for a small percentage of student GPAs, and they don't disclose how they (re)calculated the GPA anyway.
Anonymous
Post 02/11/2021 09:06     Subject: Please be honest- How much, if at all, does full pay help?
Cash isn't king, there are too many full pay applicants. GPA, however, is king...
Anonymous
Post 02/11/2021 09:05     Subject: Please be honest- How much, if at all, does full pay help?
Anonymous wrote:Aspirations of need blind acknowledged, the pandemic has made those who are full pay the golden goose for ALL schools. And this is expected to impact admissions for the next 3-5 years. Cash is king in this environment and we are seeing it being played out at area school already with how ED/EA admissions results are playing out...

No. Full pay is not a hook at need blind schools. (Full pay here with good scores, denied from two need-blind in the early round, deferred from two need-aware.)
Anonymous
Post 02/11/2021 05:34     Subject: Re:Please be honest- How much, if at all, does full pay help?
My son is on the spectrum and doesn’t always have a filter. We toured a (not competitive but good fit for him) school and after the tour had a quick meeting with an admissions counselor. The counselor was explaining the process and mentioned financial aid awards and ds said oh we won’t be needing that. The admissions guy’s eyes lit up. Ds was sort of a marginal applicant academically tbh and I do wonder if the full pay helped him get in. He decided to go somewhere else.
Anonymous
Post 02/11/2021 04:49     Subject: Please be honest- How much, if at all, does full pay help?
Anonymous wrote:Aspirations of need blind acknowledged, the pandemic has made those who are full pay the golden goose for ALL schools. And this is expected to impact admissions for the next 3-5 years. Cash is king in this environment and we are seeing it being played out at area school already with how ED/EA admissions results are playing out...


No not all schools. Not at need blind ones. Typing "ALL" in "CAPS" does not change that.
Anonymous
Post 02/11/2021 00:35     Subject: Please be honest- How much, if at all, does full pay help?
Aspirations of need blind acknowledged, the pandemic has made those who are full pay the golden goose for ALL schools. And this is expected to impact admissions for the next 3-5 years. Cash is king in this environment and we are seeing it being played out at area school already with how ED/EA admissions results are playing out...