Anonymous wrote:I have noticed several families with top students avoided applying to Harvard based on attacks on free speech. I thought this was interesting as these are really liberal people. They said that they are old school liberal in that they want everyone to speak and of course they believe their arguments will win out. I am wondering if Harvard is starting to ruin their brand esp when they are talking about taking away someone's earned degree. These families were troubled even before the latest attacks on speech happened. I don't have kids old enough but thought this was something we will watch in the coming years.

Big troll, big fail.

Let me guess, they applied to Hillsdale. Or Liberty.

The conservative attacks on on elite universities are rooted in deep jealousy.

Anonymous wrote:What is with all the MAGAheads on here lately?

You don’t seem to get that you keep proving their point.

Anonymous wrote:I have noticed several families with top students avoided applying to Harvard based on attacks on free speech. I thought this was interesting as these are really liberal people. They said that they are old school liberal in that they want everyone to speak and of course they believe their arguments will win out. I am wondering if Harvard is starting to ruin their brand esp when they are talking about taking away someone's earned degree. These families were troubled even before the latest attacks on speech happened. I don't have kids old enough but thought this was something we will watch in the coming years.

No, you have not noticed this.

Anonymous wrote:Not sure who you are talking to, but Harvard Early Applications were way up this year to 10,086 from 6,424 last year. Don't think any perceived free speech issues had any impact, or the opposite impact of what you suggest.

Apps overall at Harvard up 42%. Not sure where else your friends will apply these days if that’s their criteria.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have noticed several families with top students avoided applying to Harvard based on attacks on free speech. I thought this was interesting as these are really liberal people. They said that they are old school liberal in that they want everyone to speak and of course they believe their arguments will win out. I am wondering if Harvard is starting to ruin their brand esp when they are talking about taking away someone's earned degree. These families were troubled even before the latest attacks on speech happened. I don't have kids old enough but thought this was something we will watch in the coming years.

Nice story. Can anyone else see these 'families' or is it just you?

Not sure what you mean but just talk to people you know who you would have expected their kids to apply to Harvard. The press on Harvard intolerance is out there and maybe because Zuckerberg went there etc.

The chances of those kids getting in were infinitesimal anyway. I don't think Harvard is worried.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
What attack on free speech?

Are you talking about curtailing hate speech and incitation to violence? You know that in most wealthy nations, such actions are prohibited by law? The USA has an overly broad interpretation of free speech, which leads to hate crimes.

You need to understand what will happen if we start prohibiting speech because it "incites violence." Today, you might be happy to have Trump supporters' speech curtailed. But what if that standard was used in the past? I guarantee you MLK's and Malcom X's speech would be curtailed for inciting violence. What might happen in the future? I am not a Trump supporter by any means, but I am a firm believer in the First Amendment and I think everyone needs to stop being so short sighted. And to OP's point, yes, I know some liberals who are steering their kids toward schools like Chicago that have made clear that they value free speech over wokeness.

You should pick up a history book. MLK was hounded relentlessly be the FBI - they received authority to wiretap him specifically in order to record him having extramarital sex in an effort to discredit the civil rights movement. Fred Hampton was murdered in his bed by police. Angel Davis was held in jail for a year on flimsy charges for which she was eventually aquitted. It's not a question of "if we start prohibiting speech" - we already do that. The question is when we prohibit speech. Historically, the posture of the US government has been to prohibit the speech of Black, brown and poor people who are seeking equal protection under the law. Folks are now suggesting that instead we prohibit active terrorist recruitment, direct incitement to violence and political intimidation and voter suppression through things like people brining weapons to polling places.

Except, if MLK or Malcom X's supporters attacked the US Capitol, they would have been beaten, shot & arrested. This backlash against woke culture is just thinly veiled racism. I'm absolutely against cancel culture and I think that's a fad that will pass. But college kids should be able to assert their beliefs and call out policies and practices that they disagree with. Isn't self exploration and gaining new knowledge a part of the undergrad experience? I expect administrators & professors to set the tone on campus to provide a safe space for differing perspectives. My child's HS has been doing that all year and there have been excellent in class discussions about blue lives and black lives, raising the minimum wage, the current pandemic and comparing various news outlets. The ability to understand issues from various perspectives is critical in education. I don't think anyone can seriously claim Harvard isn't doing that.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
What attack on free speech?

Are you talking about curtailing hate speech and incitation to violence? You know that in most wealthy nations, such actions are prohibited by law? The USA has an overly broad interpretation of free speech, which leads to hate crimes.

You need to understand what will happen if we start prohibiting speech because it "incites violence." Today, you might be happy to have Trump supporters' speech curtailed. But what if that standard was used in the past? I guarantee you MLK's and Malcom X's speech would be curtailed for inciting violence. What might happen in the future? I am not a Trump supporter by any means, but I am a firm believer in the First Amendment and I think everyone needs to stop being so short sighted. And to OP's point, yes, I know some liberals who are steering their kids toward schools like Chicago that have made clear that they value free speech over wokeness.

Harvard got 57% increase in REA applicants while UChicago only got received 6% more applicants in the ED round. Strangely UChicago released its early result the last on Dec 21.

Anonymous wrote:
What attack on free speech?

Are you talking about curtailing hate speech and incitation to violence? You know that in most wealthy nations, such actions are prohibited by law? The USA has an overly broad interpretation of free speech, which leads to hate crimes.

You need to understand what will happen if we start prohibiting speech because it "incites violence." Today, you might be happy to have Trump supporters' speech curtailed. But what if that standard was used in the past? I guarantee you MLK's and Malcom X's speech would be curtailed for inciting violence. What might happen in the future? I am not a Trump supporter by any means, but I am a firm believer in the First Amendment and I think everyone needs to stop being so short sighted. And to OP's point, yes, I know some liberals who are steering their kids toward schools like Chicago that have made clear that they value free speech over wokeness.