Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All of my friends these days believe their mothers are “narcissists.” I nod along but it’s absolutely silly.

+1

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How do you know, and how can you judge? If you haven’t been parented by a narcissist, you have no idea what it’s like.

I know because they tell me why their mothers are so "terrible." It's truly, truly silly. And for the record I'm in my 30s, this is not a case of me being a boomer who is reaping what she sowed.

DP and yet somehow I feel you maybe don't get it. There are covert narcissists who can be quite charming to the outside world and yet are terrible with their closest family. A seemingly small interaction can have a huge amount of information for the child but seem relatively small to an outsider who doesn't get the intimacies and nuances within that particular relationship. For example your friend may say "she said she wasn't sure about my dress" and you are thinking no big deal, but you don't know that your friend grew up with her mother constantly belittling her, telling her she was ugly and would never look feminine.

Or perhaps your friends are the narcissists who will grow up and create more problems. Maybe they will mature and grow out of it but just because a couple of your friends have this experience doesn't make it true for others.

You misunderstand. I’ve only briefly met the parents myself. My reaction is solely to the things my friends say their parents did in private, and throughout their childhood. No glancing comments like you say, but full downloads of multi year disagreements about dresses.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How many of these people had parents who didn’t like or respect them as children and/ or as adults? You reap what you sow. It is certainly healthy for people to distance themselves from those who are abusive or manipulative. If that means distancing from a parent, I completely support that.

+1

This. My parents hated being parents. They spent my entire childhood screaming at us, hitting us, complaining about everything we did, blaming us for any dissatisfaction in their own lives, etc. They were just terribly immature people and having kids did not make them get it together -- they just took their immaturity out on us.

The thing is, I don't even fully blame them. They had their own terrible parents, and they had kids way too young and then they had too many kids (they both grew up Catholic and this is just what people did). I do think, on some level, they tried their best. But now that I've been out in the world for a while, and seen how other people parent, and also become a parent myself, I can see how damaging and terrible my upbringing was. I think I rationalized it when I was younger, but now I can see it for what it was. I'm not even angry at my parents necessarily, but I do recognize that their parenting was objectively bad.

And because they've never really come to terms with any of it -- not their own bad childhoods, and certainly not the clearly abusive things they did to us, being close to them would mean perpetuating a falsehood (that I had some idyllic childhood and that they gave me everything) to protect their fragile egos. I can see why they want this, and I can even see why a couple of my siblings have chosen to do it with them. But I know that for me, it would hurt to much. So I choose to distance myself. I haven't cut them off, but I live far away and I keep myself emotionally detached and I don't allow myself to be drawn into their fantasy of us as a close-knit family. That's something I do for myself and for my own kids. It's the right choice for me.

Anyone who calls that selfish is living in the same fantasy as my parents, believing you can spend 30 years abusing and hurting your children and then expect them to flip a switch and adore you into your old age. That's not a reasonable expectation.

Anonymous wrote:My young adult DD has a bunch of friends who grew up without mothers in their lives. I find it mind boggling. I mean, how many kids out there had their moms walk out on them when they were children? Did any of you have moms who walked out on you and left you high and dry like that? One of her friends was adopted by her stepfather - and then her biological mother walked out on her, and her stepdad raised her alone! I think he deserves a medal.

If you have a mom who was abusive, or a diagnosed BPD or another diagnosed severe mental disorder like that, I can understand your wanting to keep your distance. I encountered a lot of dysfunctional crazies among the school parents when my kid was growing up. But disliking your mom because she tried to steer you, but with love and not with malice? Uh, okay. Whatever. Just be glad your mom never walked out on you to go find herself. At least give her some basic credit for hanging in there with the midnight feedings and the all-nighters dealing with your illnesses, protecting you from danger and trying to guide you as you made big life choices, putting you first in her life and pouring all her love and effort into trying to raise you right. That's what life comes down to, and it's awfully selfish to write it all off as if it was no skin off your mom's nose.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How do you know, and how can you judge? If you haven’t been parented by a narcissist, you have no idea what it’s like.

I know because they tell me why their mothers are so "terrible." It's truly, truly silly. And for the record I'm in my 30s, this is not a case of me being a boomer who is reaping what she sowed.

DP and yet somehow I feel you maybe don't get it. There are covert narcissists who can be quite charming to the outside world and yet are terrible with their closest family. A seemingly small interaction can have a huge amount of information for the child but seem relatively small to an outsider who doesn't get the intimacies and nuances within that particular relationship. For example your friend may say "she said she wasn't sure about my dress" and you are thinking no big deal, but you don't know that your friend grew up with her mother constantly belittling her, telling her she was ugly and would never look feminine.

Or perhaps your friends are the narcissists who will grow up and create more problems. Maybe they will mature and grow out of it but just because a couple of your friends have this experience doesn't make it true for others.

Anonymous wrote:All of my friends these days believe their mothers are “narcissists.” I nod along but it’s absolutely silly.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I read about a study that showed that in the United States, people are less likely to help a family member if they don't like them. This is not true in other cultures. I think it's true that Americans on average are very individualistic and care less about family duty/responsibility.

This expectation in other cultures has led to the abuse of many people, especially women. Individualism isn’t a dirty word.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:and cut them off. And many people say that’s ok.

What happens when you don’t like who your children turned out to be?

I agree. I don't know if it is the same posters posting repeatedly or if this Family Relationships forum attracts only the unstable but it is disheartening to see how intolerant people are. I used to think it was just a Millennial issue but now I don't know.

I do think that whomever is posting all of this vitriol hasn't figured out that they truly are their kids' models and what their kids see is how their kids will act when they get older. I think there are some DCUMers who are in for a nasty surprise in 5-10-15 years.

Anonymous wrote:I read about a study that showed that in the United States, people are less likely to help a family member if they don't like them. This is not true in other cultures. I think it's true that Americans on average are very individualistic and care less about family duty/responsibility.

Anonymous wrote:My young adult DD has a bunch of friends who grew up without mothers in their lives. I find it mind boggling. I mean, how many kids out there had their moms walk out on them when they were children? Did any of you have moms who walked out on you and left you high and dry like that? One of her friends was adopted by her stepfather - and then her biological mother walked out on her, and her stepdad raised her alone! I think he deserves a medal.

If you have a mom who was abusive, or a diagnosed BPD or another diagnosed severe mental disorder like that, I can understand your wanting to keep your distance. I encountered a lot of dysfunctional crazies among the school parents when my kid was growing up. But disliking your mom because she tried to steer you, but with love and not with malice? Uh, okay. Whatever. Just be glad your mom never walked out on you to go find herself. At least give her some basic credit for hanging in there with the midnight feedings and the all-nighters dealing with your illnesses, protecting you from danger and trying to guide you as you made big life choices, putting you first in her life and pouring all her love and effort into trying to raise you right. That's what life comes down to, and it's awfully selfish to write it all off as if it was no skin off your mom's nose.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:and cut them off. And many people say that’s ok.

What happens when you don’t like who your children turned out to be?

I agree. I don't know if it is the same posters posting repeatedly or if this Family Relationships forum attracts only the unstable but it is disheartening to see how intolerant people are. I used to think it was just a Millennial issue but now I don't know.

I do think that whomever is posting all of this vitriol hasn't figured out that they truly are their kids' models and what their kids see is how their kids will act when they get older. I think there are some DCUMers who are in for a nasty surprise in 5-10-15 years.

Anonymous wrote:and cut them off. And many people say that’s ok.

What happens when you don’t like who your children turned out to be?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How do you know, and how can you judge? If you haven’t been parented by a narcissist, you have no idea what it’s like.

I know because they tell me why their mothers are so "terrible." It's truly, truly silly. And for the record I'm in my 30s, this is not a case of me being a boomer who is reaping what she sowed.