I was not aware that you could catch AP test scores from the other kids in your AP classes.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

True. And some may have more. My student is motivated by being in classes filled with others who are too. Make sure you are in a cluster where this is the case.

I don't know what to say to people who believe that only some of the high schools in MCPS have a cohort of academically-motivated students.

No one is saying that, including the PP you responded to. Some people are saying that there is a difference in the size of the cohort of academically motivated kids and also that there can be degrees of academic motivation.

Plenty of people say that, including the PP(s) above.

What do you think "more" means? I even emboldened it for you in my last post to stand out.

It is clear (and would have been more so if you hadn't cut off the thread midpoint) that PP was saying that some schools have more or a larger academically motivated cohort than others. No one has said only "some" schools have this.

This size of this cohort may or may not matter to you, and that's fine, but let's not create straw men of what others are posting.

DP, and I don't think anyone's claiming there aren't differences in the size of the college-bound cohorts between MCPS high schools. The data make that clear.

What I (and I suspect others) object to is the claim that non-W school high school kids can't possibly compete intellectually with their W-school peers. In my own little corner of the DCC, you can't walk a block without finding a parent, and usually more than one, with a Ph.D. (tons of academics and government scientists here, along with teachers, social workers, police officers, stay at home parents, etc., although very few BigLawyers/lobbyists/consultants). It's both ignorant and insulting to suggest that our kids are intellectually inferior to those in the W schools, and, yes, that's exactly what PPs who claim that AP/IB classes in the DCC aren't "at the same level" as W schools are saying. In providing advice to someone who is looking to move into the area, and doesn't know much about the distinctions between schools, it's important to be honest about what you do and don't know.

No one is saying that any individual kid is or is not at the same level. There are absolutely are kids in the DCC (or any other school) that are very bit as smart as kids at a W school. But, the fact that there is a smaller cohort of college-bound kids (and a smaller cohort aiming for competitive colleges) does change the dynamic, in the classroom and more broadly. But, let's stop talking in the abstract. Let's look at data.

https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/sharedaccountability/reports/2019/2018%20AP%20and%20IB%20Course%20Enrollment%20and%20Exam%20Participation%20and%20Performance.pdf

Appendix B above shows the percentage of kids scoring 3 or higher on AP, which ranges from 91% at Wooton to 35.1% at Watkins Mill.

So, yes, a student taking AP X at Wooton or Watkins Mill is being taught the same curriculum, but do you really not believe there will be a difference in terms of what the class can cover and the depth of discussions that will occur? Obviously, those are the extremes, but if you look at the data there is a pronounced difference among high schools, with lots of schools in the 80s and others in the 30s or 50s (oddly none in the 40s). Of course, this only looks at AP classes. Almost no students (none if you count things like gym and electives) will be in all AP classes and the student body as a whole becomes more relevant there as well.

Again, this isn't to say that there aren't kids at Watkins Mill (or elsewhere) every bit as smart and smarter than kids at Wooton or that a kid can't get a good education at any MCPS school, but I think it is wrong to say that, just because there is a college-bound cohort at all MCPS schools, there differences between schools are irrelevant to someone's high school education and experience.

Anonymous wrote:The W schools (and BCC) are all the same academically. Same opportunity for learning, resources to achieve, etc. Whitman is a pressure cooker in a way the others aren’t since probably 80% of its student body are college-bound high achievers with successful parents. BCC and WJ are more diverse (racial and socioeconomically) but they have successful cohort programs for the high achieving kids. The rich elementary schools that feed into all three are indistinguishable from one another. Westland, Silver Creek, and NB are all great middle schools with nurturing environments (as far as public schools go) and are not swimming in people. Pyle is a mess. Way too many kids so no way for a non-troublemaker to get any attention.

I have two well behaved, high achieving kids in Pyle. They get plenty of attention. I don't know if we were lucky with our assistant principals (1 per grade) but ours are pretty sharp and I think because of a demanding parent population, are accustomed to fixing / changing / adapting whatever is needed and quickly.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

DP, and I don't think anyone's claiming there aren't differences in the size of the college-bound cohorts between MCPS high schools. The data make that clear.

What I (and I suspect others) object to is the claim that non-W school high school kids can't possibly compete intellectually with their W-school peers. In my own little corner of the DCC, you can't walk a block without finding a parent, and usually more than one, with a Ph.D. (tons of academics and government scientists here, along with teachers, social workers, police officers, stay at home parents, etc., although very few BigLawyers/lobbyists/consultants). It's both ignorant and insulting to suggest that our kids are intellectually inferior to those in the W schools, and, yes, that's exactly what PPs who claim that AP/IB classes in the DCC aren't "at the same level" as W schools are saying. In providing advice to someone who is looking to move into the area, and doesn't know much about the distinctions between schools, it's important to be honest about what you do and don't know.

Can we please also explicitly mention the existence of smart, motivated kids whose parents don't have PhDs or even any college degrees at all.

As well as the existence of unmotivated kids whose parents have advanced degrees but whose primary strength is not in school academics. There may even be some kids like that in Bethesda.

Absolutely, and thank you. Bright, motivated kids exist in families from all walks of life. And unmotivated kids generally aren’t bursting into classrooms of their more motivated counterparts to disrupt their learning, or whatever some parents want to assume.

Anonymous wrote:

DP, and I don't think anyone's claiming there aren't differences in the size of the college-bound cohorts between MCPS high schools. The data make that clear.

What I (and I suspect others) object to is the claim that non-W school high school kids can't possibly compete intellectually with their W-school peers. In my own little corner of the DCC, you can't walk a block without finding a parent, and usually more than one, with a Ph.D. (tons of academics and government scientists here, along with teachers, social workers, police officers, stay at home parents, etc., although very few BigLawyers/lobbyists/consultants). It's both ignorant and insulting to suggest that our kids are intellectually inferior to those in the W schools, and, yes, that's exactly what PPs who claim that AP/IB classes in the DCC aren't "at the same level" as W schools are saying. In providing advice to someone who is looking to move into the area, and doesn't know much about the distinctions between schools, it's important to be honest about what you do and don't know.

Can we please also explicitly mention the existence of smart, motivated kids whose parents don't have PhDs or even any college degrees at all.

As well as the existence of unmotivated kids whose parents have advanced degrees but whose primary strength is not in school academics. There may even be some kids like that in Bethesda.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

True. And some may have more. My student is motivated by being in classes filled with others who are too. Make sure you are in a cluster where this is the case.

I don't know what to say to people who believe that only some of the high schools in MCPS have a cohort of academically-motivated students.

No one is saying that, including the PP you responded to. Some people are saying that there is a difference in the size of the cohort of academically motivated kids and also that there can be degrees of academic motivation.

Plenty of people say that, including the PP(s) above.

What do you think "more" means? I even emboldened it for you in my last post to stand out.

It is clear (and would have been more so if you hadn't cut off the thread midpoint) that PP was saying that some schools have more or a larger academically motivated cohort than others. No one has said only "some" schools have this.

This size of this cohort may or may not matter to you, and that's fine, but let's not create straw men of what others are posting.

DP, and I don't think anyone's claiming there aren't differences in the size of the college-bound cohorts between MCPS high schools. The data make that clear.

What I (and I suspect others) object to is the claim that non-W school high school kids can't possibly compete intellectually with their W-school peers. In my own little corner of the DCC, you can't walk a block without finding a parent, and usually more than one, with a Ph.D. (tons of academics and government scientists here, along with teachers, social workers, police officers, stay at home parents, etc., although very few BigLawyers/lobbyists/consultants). It's both ignorant and insulting to suggest that our kids are intellectually inferior to those in the W schools, and, yes, that's exactly what PPs who claim that AP/IB classes in the DCC aren't "at the same level" as W schools are saying. In providing advice to someone who is looking to move into the area, and doesn't know much about the distinctions between schools, it's important to be honest about what you do and don't know.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The W schools (and BCC) are all the same academically. Same opportunity for learning, resources to achieve, etc. Whitman is a pressure cooker in a way the others aren’t since probably 80% of its student body are college-bound high achievers with successful parents. BCC and WJ are more diverse (racial and socioeconomically) but they have successful cohort programs for the high achieving kids. The rich elementary schools that feed into all three are indistinguishable from one another. Westland, Silver Creek, and NB are all great middle schools with nurturing environments (as far as public schools go) and are not swimming in people. Pyle is a mess. Way too many kids so no way for a non-troublemaker to get any attention.

I agree with a lot of this, but don't think Whitman is any more of a pressure cooker than the others. What makes the others academically strong is that there is a large cohort of high-achieving kids striving for college, and in many cases competitive colleges. That Whitman may have a smaller cohort of non-college bound students is largely irrelevant to the level of pressure your kid will feel.

If your kid is college-bound and looking at competitive schools, he or she will be competing against all the other kids in the school with similar goals. It won't really matter whether there are 10, 20, or 30% of the class that don't share those goals, because there will be enough that do to create the pressure.

As a WJ parent who attended Whitman, I’ve noticed a difference for sure. My DD has made friends in her electives classes whose life plans don’t involved applying early decision to Penn or Brown (or even going to college at all). Her immediate friend group is somewhat of a pressure cooker just cause they all have the same goal and are on the same time table but knowing that not everyone’s world and experience of being 17 is just like hers as been great for her. MC, trade school, etc are great options for some people and I never learned that at Whitman.

That's a really interesting point. Thanks, PP.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The W schools (and BCC) are all the same academically. Same opportunity for learning, resources to achieve, etc. Whitman is a pressure cooker in a way the others aren’t since probably 80% of its student body are college-bound high achievers with successful parents. BCC and WJ are more diverse (racial and socioeconomically) but they have successful cohort programs for the high achieving kids. The rich elementary schools that feed into all three are indistinguishable from one another. Westland, Silver Creek, and NB are all great middle schools with nurturing environments (as far as public schools go) and are not swimming in people. Pyle is a mess. Way too many kids so no way for a non-troublemaker to get any attention.

I agree with a lot of this, but don't think Whitman is any more of a pressure cooker than the others. What makes the others academically strong is that there is a large cohort of high-achieving kids striving for college, and in many cases competitive colleges. That Whitman may have a smaller cohort of non-college bound students is largely irrelevant to the level of pressure your kid will feel.

If your kid is college-bound and looking at competitive schools, he or she will be competing against all the other kids in the school with similar goals. It won't really matter whether there are 10, 20, or 30% of the class that don't share those goals, because there will be enough that do to create the pressure.

As a WJ parent who attended Whitman, I’ve noticed a difference for sure. My DD has made friends in her electives classes whose life plans don’t involved applying early decision to Penn or Brown (or even going to college at all). Her immediate friend group is somewhat of a pressure cooker just cause they all have the same goal and are on the same time table but knowing that not everyone’s world and experience of being 17 is just like hers as been great for her. MC, trade school, etc are great options for some people and I never learned that at Whitman.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oakland Terrace ES is bilingual and feeds to Einstein HS which has an IB program basically anyone can do without testing. It’s part of the down county consortium so you could apply to the Blair magnet for high school and have the Wheaton magnet as a backup.

As a current OTES parent and W school alum, the above is true. It's also true that OTES/DCC are very racially and socioeconomically diverse. The feel is palpably different from W school feeders, with respect to culture and how much parents are focusing on getting their kids into the "best" schools, not to mention socioeconomic diversity in particular. I love it here and we choose to continue living here for the wonderful, diverse community, but if OP is interested in being around other like-minded families, the DCC is not likely to be the best fit.

Your best options are likely to be in-bounds for RM, WJ, or Whitman. Churchill is more wealthy than it is academic, and Wootton is probably further out than you want to be. Schools that feed into WJ/RM are more walkable generally than Whitman. RM neighborhoods are less wealthy than WJ, inasmuch as that matters.

It's kind of splitting hairs. Academically you can do just as well at any school in the county. It really comes down to which is socially a better fit for your kids and convenient for you. All high-schools have competitive classes. The difference is 4 sections of AP English vs 3. It's really not a big deal.

OP here--thanks again to all who posted! This has been really helpful in narrowing our search.

Anonymous wrote:The W schools (and BCC) are all the same academically. Same opportunity for learning, resources to achieve, etc. Whitman is a pressure cooker in a way the others aren’t since probably 80% of its student body are college-bound high achievers with successful parents. BCC and WJ are more diverse (racial and socioeconomically) but they have successful cohort programs for the high achieving kids. The rich elementary schools that feed into all three are indistinguishable from one another. Westland, Silver Creek, and NB are all great middle schools with nurturing environments (as far as public schools go) and are not swimming in people. Pyle is a mess. Way too many kids so no way for a non-troublemaker to get any attention.

I agree with a lot of this, but don't think Whitman is any more of a pressure cooker than the others. What makes the others academically strong is that there is a large cohort of high-achieving kids striving for college, and in many cases competitive colleges. That Whitman may have a smaller cohort of non-college bound students is largely irrelevant to the level of pressure your kid will feel.

If your kid is college-bound and looking at competitive schools, he or she will be competing against all the other kids in the school with similar goals. It won't really matter whether there are 10, 20, or 30% of the class that don't share those goals, because there will be enough that do to create the pressure.

The W schools (and BCC) are all the same academically. Same opportunity for learning, resources to achieve, etc. Whitman is a pressure cooker in a way the others aren’t since probably 80% of its student body are college-bound high achievers with successful parents. BCC and WJ are more diverse (racial and socioeconomically) but they have successful cohort programs for the high achieving kids. The rich elementary schools that feed into all three are indistinguishable from one another. Westland, Silver Creek, and NB are all great middle schools with nurturing environments (as far as public schools go) and are not swimming in people. Pyle is a mess. Way too many kids so no way for a non-troublemaker to get any attention.

Anonymous wrote:Oakland Terrace ES is bilingual and feeds to Einstein HS which has an IB program basically anyone can do without testing. It’s part of the down county consortium so you could apply to the Blair magnet for high school and have the Wheaton magnet as a backup.

As a current OTES parent and W school alum, the above is true. It's also true that OTES/DCC are very racially and socioeconomically diverse. The feel is palpably different from W school feeders, with respect to culture and how much parents are focusing on getting their kids into the "best" schools, not to mention socioeconomic diversity in particular. I love it here and we choose to continue living here for the wonderful, diverse community, but if OP is interested in being around other like-minded families, the DCC is not likely to be the best fit.

Your best options are likely to be in-bounds for RM, WJ, or Whitman. Churchill is more wealthy than it is academic, and Wootton is probably further out than you want to be. Schools that feed into WJ/RM are more walkable generally than Whitman. RM neighborhoods are less wealthy than WJ, inasmuch as that matters.

Anonymous wrote:I live in a terrible school pyramid neighborhood. It has worked well for us as kids went to magnet schools, so I don't have any skin in this issue.

My advice to anyone who can afford it is to go to the Whitman Cluster. Burning Bush ES, Pyle MS and Whitman HS - would be the most desirable.

Who would most desire this, and on what basis?

Also, it's Burning Tree ES (named after the Bethesda country club), not Burning Bush ES (named after the famous vegetation on Mt Sinai).

Anonymous wrote:I live in a terrible school pyramid neighborhood. It has worked well for us as kids went to magnet schools, so I don't have any skin in this issue.

My advice to anyone who can afford it is to go to the Whitman Cluster. Burning Bush ES, Pyle MS and Whitman HS - would be the most desirable.

As someone asked earlier, "Why?"