Anonymous
Post 12/21/2020 20:54     Subject: Re:secular Christmas is an oxymoron
Tree, presents, Santa, cookies, Xmas music ... not Christian ... secular

Jesus, church... is Christian Christmas
Anonymous
Post 12/21/2020 20:52     Subject: secular Christmas is an oxymoron
Anonymous wrote:I call it 'cultural Christmas'


Same. Not religious at all, but this is part of my American culture.
Anonymous
Post 12/21/2020 17:48     Subject: Re:secular Christmas is an oxymoron
Why? No actual birth at this time of anyone (!) and quite a bit of pagan celebration...the tree and fantastical man delivering gifts, not to mention flying reindeer. Oh, and the consumer aspect? How is that Christianity? What about the capitalism aspect- is THAT what brings you to align with modern Christianity?
Anonymous
Post 12/21/2020 17:42     Subject: secular Christmas is an oxymoron
Anonymous wrote:Christmas was originally a pagan holiday stolen by Christians to get the pagans to convert. Christians have a history of stealing other holidays and forcing people to convert, and they still do. Easter eggs and Halloween were originally pagan traditions. Christians also co-opted a few Jewish holidays, made it about Jesus and call it Messianic Judaism. It’s Messianic Christianity. While some Messianic Christians are ethnically Jews, Messianic Christianity is not a part of Judaism. Sorry to get of topic. The original Christmas is a pagan holiday. What does the evergreen tree, music and lots of material gifts have to do with Jesus' birthday? If I wanted to celebrate Jesus birthday, I would create a birthday card for Jesus and sing "Happy Birthday Dear Jesus". Original pagan traditions have nothing to do with Christmas.

Christmas has become commercialized and it’s everywhere, and the decorations and songs are fun. Of course I want to join in, even as a Jew.

Christians should be honored that so many wish to spread joy and cheer during Christmas! Our priest spoke to this last weekend, that others merry making adds to the beauty of Christmas and their joy of the season is in fact adding to the celebration the birth of Christ. So thank you for your happy participation!
Anonymous
Post 12/21/2020 15:56     Subject: secular Christmas is an oxymoron
Christmas was originally a pagan holiday stolen by Christians to get the pagans to convert. Christians have a history of stealing other holidays and forcing people to convert, and they still do. Easter eggs and Halloween were originally pagan traditions. Christians also co-opted a few Jewish holidays, made it about Jesus and call it Messianic Judaism. It’s Messianic Christianity. While some Messianic Christians are ethnically Jews, Messianic Christianity is not a part of Judaism. Sorry to get of topic. The original Christmas is a pagan holiday. What does the evergreen tree, music and lots of material gifts have to do with Jesus' birthday? If I wanted to celebrate Jesus birthday, I would create a birthday card for Jesus and sing "Happy Birthday Dear Jesus". Original pagan traditions have nothing to do with Christmas.

Christmas has become commercialized and it’s everywhere, and the decorations and songs are fun. Of course I want to join in, even as a Jew.
Anonymous
Post 12/18/2020 20:15     Subject: secular Christmas is an oxymoron
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:If you are a Christian, why are you celebrating Christmas in late December, when that's not when Jesus was even born? Not even the same season--by at least a few months!


If you are Catholic, you celebrate when the Church holds these feast days. And, if you went to Catholic school or did RCIA as an adult, you are absolutely aware that they were moved to co opt pagan shenanigans like Samhain and Yule.

When I was a child many minor feasts were celebrated on a certain date and now they seem to have migrated to the nearest Sunday which makes me a bit sad. The result is that my family celebrates religious Epiphany by going to Mass on the designated Sunday and cultural Epiphany on 1/6 (Three Kings bring the kids gift).


So basically the whole reason you are celebrating Jesus now is to ruin someone else’s party. That’s totally normal and probably what Jesus would do. Also question: if I go to mass but I also buy a Chanel bag, which Christmas am I celebrating?
Anonymous
Post 12/18/2020 19:26     Subject: Re:secular Christmas is an oxymoron
I celebrate Christmas and Easter like I celebrate Halloween and St Paddy’s Day and Mardi Gras.

Fun celebrations. Christmas is extra special because school is out for an extended time, my office is closed or at reduced hours so I get lots of time with family, lots of parties (pre-Covid), gifts, lights, decorations, etc.

They are all fun holidays with their own traditions. None of which involve religion for us.
Anonymous
Post 12/18/2020 19:14     Subject: secular Christmas is an oxymoron
OP is a definer of the faith.
Anonymous
Post 12/18/2020 18:54     Subject: Re:secular Christmas is an oxymoron
Anonymous wrote:Hi OP. I’m a Christian and a Minister. Celebrating the birth of Jesus has absolutely nothing to do with the traditions you celebrate on December 25th. It’s very likely Jesus was born in the spring or summer. What you celebrate is Winter Solstice. The decorated tree. The gifts. The lights. The candles. The wreaths. The nuts. Etc..... All pagan traditions.

I love Christmas. I love that we can use the festivities to celebrate the light Jesus brought into our world. But people don’t need to be religious at all to celebrate.

Exactly. No one has an “exclusive use” right over any faith. We can find meaning from a multitude of religions and incorporate these things into our own lives, that make sense to whatever we want to celebrate! It’d be wonderful if we would be less concerned about others personal beliefs.
Anonymous
Post 12/18/2020 18:40     Subject: Re:secular Christmas is an oxymoron
Hi OP. I’m a Christian and a Minister. Celebrating the birth of Jesus has absolutely nothing to do with the traditions you celebrate on December 25th. It’s very likely Jesus was born in the spring or summer. What you celebrate is Winter Solstice. The decorated tree. The gifts. The lights. The candles. The wreaths. The nuts. Etc..... All pagan traditions.

I love Christmas. I love that we can use the festivities to celebrate the light Jesus brought into our world. But people don’t need to be religious at all to celebrate.
Anonymous
Post 12/18/2020 18:29     Subject: secular Christmas is an oxymoron
Anonymous wrote:I call it 'cultural Christmas'


I call it putting the Saturn back in Saturnalia.
Anonymous
Post 12/18/2020 18:28     Subject: secular Christmas is an oxymoron
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:If you are a Christian, why are you celebrating Christmas in late December, when that's not when Jesus was even born? Not even the same season--by at least a few months!


If you are Catholic, you celebrate when the Church holds these feast days. And, if you went to Catholic school or did RCIA as an adult, you are absolutely aware that they were moved to co opt pagan shenanigans like Samhain and Yule.

When I was a child many minor feasts were celebrated on a certain date and now they seem to have migrated to the nearest Sunday which makes me a bit sad. The result is that my family celebrates religious Epiphany by going to Mass on the designated Sunday and cultural Epiphany on 1/6 (Three Kings bring the kids gift).


Still an oxymoron. But that's fine, and then don't complain about people celebrating secular Christmas in late December, since they're not the ones contradicting their religious history/faith. Because this time of year, Jesus is actually not the reason for the season at all.


Yeah, I’ve never complained about it. Or any holiday anyone chose to celebrate except for Jefferson Davis Day and other confederate holidays.
Anonymous
Post 12/18/2020 18:23     Subject: secular Christmas is an oxymoron
Anonymous wrote:So if there is separation of church and state, how can Christmas be a religious holiday at the same time it is a national holiday?


+1

This isn't a "Christian nation".
Anonymous
Post 12/18/2020 18:04     Subject: secular Christmas is an oxymoron
So if there is separation of church and state, how can Christmas be a religious holiday at the same time it is a national holiday?
Anonymous
Post 12/18/2020 18:00     Subject: secular Christmas is an oxymoron
Christmas is primarily a secular holiday in the US now.

OP sounds like you are talking about the birth of Jesus. Which isn't even in December.