Anonymous wrote:The issues I find with your post is that you speak as if you are “sure” about things that you clearly don’t understand. It’s okay to just say I don’t understand.

Maybe the issue also is the book you posted is trash and has your brain in knots ... after being peer reviewed the author had to put a disclaimer on it.

You might get less backlash if you came from a place of learning instead of knowing. Also don’t talk about the book it makes you sound crazy.

Also, you are seeking a clear and definitive answer/solution. It doesn’t exist. Maybe a boy just likes to wear nail polish and now we think .., hmm what is his label and actually he’s just a boy who wears nail polish.

Your daughter is a girl biologically who does not follow female social norms and you want a label for that and a solution to fix it.

There is no problem, hence no solution.... if I was a she/they and my mom/society was trying to fix me I’d have anxiety and depression too.

There is not “explosion” of girls being trans, it’s just new to you.

Also men ogling women is disgusting ... she not liking it is not the problem.

Thank you for saying everything that needed to be said

My Dd is 11 and in the past couple of months 2 girls in her class and generally in her wider friend group have come out as trans and announced new names and pronouns. A couple of others have started using they/them pronouns and a few others have identified themselves as gay. Dd is in 6th grade.
I remember to use the correct names and pronouns when discussing these kids, and I am supportive of whatever decisions they feel they need to make right now, as is dd. I don’t know if it’s a “fad” and possibly some of them will make different decisions in a year or two, but it’s not my business to comment on that.
Dd is “absolutely sure” she is a straight girl. She hasn’t started puberty yet (but is excited for it), and I hope she continues to feel good about herself in her body. I do remember the horrible unwanted attention I started getting at her age - I was more developed - and hope to be able to offer her better counsel than my mom who just shrugged when we were walking by a group of men who catcalled at us, and said “that’s what men do”.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it's depression. This is the way that some show it.

Watch some interviews with people who were "100% sure" that they were transgender and then later changed their minds. They admit that they were depressed, and they thought things would be better after the change, but it wasn't.

I think any sign of depression should be a major red flag, or if the person has things to gain by switching (like guys saying they're girls and being allowed to compete against women in sports).

Absolutely. All of the girls who have been doing this that I've seen at my daughter's school are clearly depressed. The pandemic has made it worse. And by depressed, I mean: poor / crazy screwed up sleep schedule; weird eating; spending all day in room on internet; no exercise; friendships disappearing or all friendships within same self-pity / gender dysphoria crew. They are being told that changing their labels will make them feel better, and that society and its "labels" are the cause of their problems, and are *not* being told to take some accountability for themselves and deal with their issues. This is another example of the coddling / victimhood mindset that has taken over education and parenting and it's high-time that parents start to question it.

+1000

1. Let your child bind. Binding can be dangerous if done incorrectly or when using certain binders (think bruised and broken ribs). People should only be wearing a binder 8 hours a day and should stick to a brand like GC2B which is flexible all around. By not letting them bind, they may be more likely to bind in secret and unsafely.

2. Make sure your child knows you love and support them no matter what. This doesn't mean allowing or encouraging medical intervention at the moment, but just knowing that whatever they are feeling is okay. Also, even if you think it's a phase, don't let them know that just let them know that you're a safe place to go.

I've never thought that it sucks to be a girl or a woman. Not all parts are awesome but that's the same for men.

I don't think parents understand the level of power that young women/girls have in the younger generations. I think we're holding young women back with our old ideas.

I have only boys (one gay) so maybe I see it from a different perspective but in no way are these young ladies, writ large, victims or "poor me" anything. They are very capable, strong, and powerful in their own right.

1) She has always felt different from other girls. Not gender dysphoric. She just felt not like a girly girl (not surprising, since I also observed that and I didnt raise/dress her that way)
2) Unwanted looks from men have been a source of distress for her from which she never really recovered, and these looks were not all post puberty

What I have noticed with my DDs (one gay, one straight) is that they/their friends have this very narrow view of what it means to be female - and it means to be super girly, dress and act girly. Anything that is not that is non-binary. I'm an ally, but I find this really disconcerting and don't understand where it comes from. I tell them that this is wrong and seems to internalize a very misogynistic, weak view of women. I am not stereotypically girly in the least--I am a WOHM married to a SAHD who does all the cooking, I can't be bothered with fashion or makeup, and my body language has been described in the past as "very dude like." I'm still a woman.

For all the criticism thrown at the PP who said that this is a product of realizing that it sucks to be a girl, I think there is probably some truth in that. Being a girl means realizing that you feel and are vulnerable.

Anonymous wrote:Post of the problem is female and male social norms are so restrictive now. And deviation is considered queer or nonbinary, however in other cultures or other times there is no rigid binary.

Not sure I agree - at least with respect to women. I think women are much more free now than in the past re: social norms. Compared to the 50's, even the 70's (when a lot of it was window dressing), compared to Victorian England, and all that.

I do think men remain fairly restricted, as they always have been, and I do agree that some cultures allow men more freedom of choice than the US.

Bravo OP. When my daughter was 12, there were 8 to 10 kids in her friend group who were questioning their gender identity. Fast forward 12 years, every single one of them is the gender they were born with.

I agree with your premise that it is a mistake to do anything permanent too quickly.

Post of the problem is female and male social norms are so restrictive now. And deviation is considered queer or nonbinary, however in other cultures or other times there is no rigid binary.

I think there’s a difference between kids exploring their identity and kids who know they’re trans. It’s fine to explore, it’s fine to discuss and question during that exploration, it’s fine to be fluid and not settle on one label. It’s not fine for someone to know who they are and have people tell them they’re wrong and withhold medical treatment for religious or social reasons.

My son is trans, ftm. When he came out, everything made sense. It explained so much about him. We got him therapy, met with medical professionals, and came up with a plan. Everyone agreed on the best course of action, and he is so much happier. Life is better. The only people who were surprised by his transition are people who didn’t know him or people who are transphobic and believe it’s a trend or fad and that being trans is a form of mental illness.

I think sometimes it’s shocking for people who are closed off to the possibility of someone being different than they see them. Some parents are blind to the signs so it’s incredibly surprising when their kids aren’t heterosexual or cisgender. There’s also a crappy perception that because some kids explore these boundaries, all kids having any experience with these issues are also only experimenting, and it must be a fad. It also sucks when people assume kids who explore these issues are attention seeking. That attitude might be why the kids are trying to push buttons, if that’s their goal.

Where does all this come from? DC are in MS and no one has ever had this issue some up in our sphere.

Anonymous wrote:I was discussing this with SIL the other day because 22 year old niece is “exploring non-binary” which I think means she is wearing more masculine clothes, and she would be okay using they/them pronouns but is also okay with she/her.

I think one thing that is different these days, and a PP touched on it above, is the labels! When I was young (long long ago) and shopped largely in the mens department because I was self conscious about my body and wanted less revealing clothes, I just liked to wear those clothes. Now I think there’s a lot of drive or push to say that means something, to give it some significance, and with that comes a label. Or maybe the label comes first, I’m not sure.

The focus on labeling seems to be rampant in this culture. Who you are is how you identify, what box you check, what label you have.

NP here. This is a fascinating observation. It kind of helps me understand why I feel so uncomfortable sharing my pronouns in group settings...even though I've always been proactive about calling people by their preferred pronouns (probably longer than some people to whom my discomfort might seem like bigotry have been alive).

I'm a woman who identifies as such, but I've been very masculine in presentation at various points in my life. In HS, I was the only girl in several STEM classes, and I wasn't that interested in dating anyone. While at the time, it never would have occurred to me to question my gender identity, I think now it would. But, really, it's just that I became interested in sexual relationships later than typical, and I felt very uncomfortable being the only girl in a lot of settings. It was already apparent to me, that I would experience sexism throughout my life and work (and I have).

I think it's interesting that at the same time that society is rightly becoming so much more accepting of trans-gender identities, we still are reluctant to talk about the many ways misogyny is built into our culture.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it's depression. This is the way that some show it.

Watch some interviews with people who were "100% sure" that they were transgender and then later changed their minds. They admit that they were depressed, and they thought things would be better after the change, but it wasn't.

I think any sign of depression should be a major red flag, or if the person has things to gain by switching (like guys saying they're girls and being allowed to compete against women in sports).

Absolutely. All of the girls who have been doing this that I've seen at my daughter's school are clearly depressed. The pandemic has made it worse. And by depressed, I mean: poor / crazy screwed up sleep schedule; weird eating; spending all day in room on internet; no exercise; friendships disappearing or all friendships within same self-pity / gender dysphoria crew. They are being told that changing their labels will make them feel better, and that society and its "labels" are the cause of their problems, and are *not* being told to take some accountability for themselves and deal with their issues. This is another example of the coddling / victimhood mindset that has taken over education and parenting and it's high-time that parents start to question it.

Trans people are typically depressed when they have to hide who they are. I know from personal experience that when they come out to love and support that depression gets better. When they're faced with people like you, it gets worse, sometimes fatally so. I pray no one in your life is trans.

Anonymous wrote:The issues I find with your post is that you speak as if you are “sure” about things that you clearly don’t understand. It’s okay to just say I don’t understand.

Maybe the issue also is the book you posted is trash and has your brain in knots ... after being peer reviewed the author had to put a disclaimer on it.

You might get less backlash if you came from a place of learning instead of knowing. Also don’t talk about the book it makes you sound crazy.

Also, you are seeking a clear and definitive answer/solution. It doesn’t exist. Maybe a boy just likes to wear nail polish and now we think .., hmm what is his label and actually he’s just a boy who wears nail polish.

Your daughter is a girl biologically who does not follow female social norms and you want a label for that and a solution to fix it.

There is no problem, hence no solution.... if I was a she/they and my mom/society was trying to fix me I’d have anxiety and depression too.

There is not “explosion” of girls being trans, it’s just new to you.

Also men ogling women is disgusting ... she not liking it is not the problem.

OP here, it absolutely is disgusting AND it is not something anyone should tolerate.

You know nothing about all the "social norms" my daughter did and does follow. You cannot speak to what my daufgter is experiencing.

It is specifically because I dont believe a label is the right thing that I am posting.

There is absolutely a documented uptick in girls being trans, and its not just new to me.

I dont care if talking about one book makes me sound crazy. I dont need anyone's approval, nor am I seeking it.

And nowhere did I use the word sure about my thoughts. But it sure is interesting you thought I did.

Anonymous wrote:The issues I find with your post is that you speak as if you are “sure” about things that you clearly don’t understand. It’s okay to just say I don’t understand.

Maybe the issue also is the book you posted is trash and has your brain in knots ... after being peer reviewed the author had to put a disclaimer on it.

You might get less backlash if you came from a place of learning instead of knowing. Also don’t talk about the book it makes you sound crazy.

Also, you are seeking a clear and definitive answer/solution. It doesn’t exist. Maybe a boy just likes to wear nail polish and now we think .., hmm what is his label and actually he’s just a boy who wears nail polish.

Your daughter is a girl biologically who does not follow female social norms and you want a label for that and a solution to fix it.

There is no problem, hence no solution.... if I was a she/they and my mom/society was trying to fix me I’d have anxiety and depression too.

There is not “explosion” of girls being trans, it’s just new to you.

Also men ogling women is disgusting ... she not liking it is not the problem.

EXACTLY. I could not have said this better myself. OP is very narcissistic and turned this whole thing into something much bigger than it needed to be for her DD. By applying all this psycho-analytical mumbo-jumbo and academic/technical terms for gender issues to her still young daughter when all of this reared its head, OP took the daughter to far ends of the the situation. Why not say to your daughter a few years back when the topic first started, "As a woman, there is a wide range of people who feel very feminine, girly girl, etc. But there is also many who feel very tom-boyish and not girly. This is all normal. Just like there are people who have fear of heights and people who get a thrill from skydiving. This is all normal that there is no normal." Why turn this into a big roller coaster ride of taking extreme actions, exploring gender changes, when all you had to do was teach your daughter basic coping skills at her youth. By the way, no one likes to be oggled at. are you saying that straight girls enjoy being oggled at? Such a messed up parent you are.