Anonymous
Post 12/11/2020 13:17     Subject: Ivies or die?
Anonymous wrote:My spouse and I are both Ivy grads. We both wanted SLACs for our kids. Ivy students are smart but the Ivy experience is usually overrated.

Walking around Yale and Harvard a few times over the past few years, I've been amazed at how tense many (most) of the students seem. Campuses of SLACs and even campuses of state universities often give off a happier vibe.

Also, "Ivy" is just 8 colleges that happen to be in the same athletic conference. People who apply to all 8 seen pretty clueless to me. If you really like Dartmouth and Cornell, there are plenty of excellent non-Ivy colleges you'd probably prefer to Columbia, Penn, Harvard and Yale. If you really like the more urban Ivy options, why would your top choices include Princeton, Darmouth or Cornell? For some applicants, there may be particular academic programs or athletic or extracurricular activities that explain why someone would like both Columbia and Dartmouth, but usually there won't be a very good reason.



Yeah I never understood the people who applied to all 8 (and nothing else)...ridiculous.
Anonymous
Post 12/11/2020 13:16     Subject: Ivies or die?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:"Some of us went to Ivies, others didn’t. "


MOST of us didn't. Have the kids read the bios of people they consider successful.



x1000000


Don't be a narrow minded striver - now THERE is a goal.


I'm confused - emulate successful people who didn't go to Ivies? Aren't they also strivers?


Depends. If they are social climbers, without much cred, well......
Anonymous
Post 12/11/2020 13:14     Subject: Ivies or die?
I went to an ivy. My spouse went to a lesser-known directional state school. My spouse makes a lot more than I do as my spouse is in sales.
Anonymous
Post 12/11/2020 13:13     Subject: Ivies or die?
My spouse and I are both Ivy grads. We both wanted SLACs for our kids. Ivy students are smart but the Ivy experience is usually overrated.

Walking around Yale and Harvard a few times over the past few years, I've been amazed at how tense many (most) of the students seem. Campuses of SLACs and even campuses of state universities often give off a happier vibe.

Also, "Ivy" is just 8 colleges that happen to be in the same athletic conference. People who apply to all 8 seen pretty clueless to me. If you really like Dartmouth and Cornell, there are plenty of excellent non-Ivy colleges you'd probably prefer to Columbia, Penn, Harvard and Yale. If you really like the more urban Ivy options, why would your top choices include Princeton, Darmouth or Cornell? For some applicants, there may be particular academic programs or athletic or extracurricular activities that explain why someone would like both Columbia and Dartmouth, but usually there won't be a very good reason.

Anonymous
Post 12/11/2020 12:59     Subject: Ivies or die?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:My kids’ friends are convinced there is no other way to succeed. They believe that it’s imperative to get into an Ivy or other top-ranked school in order to make money. They are so stressed and pressured about this. I am a successful professional and know many other successful professionals. Some of us went to Ivies, others didn’t.
How can I explain to these teens that going to a college that is a good fit where they can thrive is much more important than going to an Ivy?


I'd rather have my teens obsessed with the goal of getting into an Ivy than just being a average underachieving slacker kid. Have you seen the average teen? They're dumb as a brick, lazy, addicted to the phone and video games. They've literally never finished a book. Or the other large subset of teens obsessed with playing sports, which 99.9% of the time is just a pointless time sink.


I'd rather have my teens be well-adjusted and not "obsessed" with anything at this young stage in their lives. Of course, I want them to be passionate about something, but obsessed, no! And what kind of parent talks about the average teen as dumb as a brick. You're talking about your friend's kids, unless they're all the obsessed type. And if they are, I sure hope my kids aren't friends with them.
Anonymous
Post 12/11/2020 12:21     Subject: Ivies or die?
Anonymous wrote:Leave it to their parents.


+1

Anonymous
Post 12/11/2020 12:19     Subject: Re:Ivies or die?
I have a junior in college. Fit all the criteria for an ivy in high school, but did not believe the hype. Went to a mid level school. Trust me, this kid did not need an ivy to be successful. Completely fierce, competitive, smart, go getter, and totally killing it in the summer intern interviews.
Anonymous
Post 12/11/2020 11:56     Subject: Ivies or die?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:"Some of us went to Ivies, others didn’t. "


MOST of us didn't. Have the kids read the bios of people they consider successful.



x1000000


Don't be a narrow minded striver - now THERE is a goal.


I'm confused - emulate successful people who didn't go to Ivies? Aren't they also strivers?


Not necessarily. There is a difference between A) going to to the best school you can and B) believing you have to go to one of 12 schools because they are so prestigious and everything else is crap.


Exactly. We are responding to an OP who is asking about kids giving up hope if they don't get into an Ivy, "ivy or die," as if that is the only way on the world to become successful. The reality is that most successful people did not attend Ivy league schools, and not all people who did attend Ivy league schools are objectively successful. So it is a terrible, and ignorant, frame of mind for a high schooler to have, and it is born of a false belief in numerical "rankings" of things that are too diverse for a straight line comparison. It is purely a misguided social construct.
Anonymous
Post 12/11/2020 11:27     Subject: Ivies or die?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:"Some of us went to Ivies, others didn’t. "


MOST of us didn't. Have the kids read the bios of people they consider successful.



x1000000


Don't be a narrow minded striver - now THERE is a goal.


I'm confused - emulate successful people who didn't go to Ivies? Aren't they also strivers?


Not necessarily. There is a difference between A) going to to the best school you can and B) believing you have to go to one of 12 schools because they are so prestigious and everything else is crap.
Anonymous
Post 12/11/2020 11:01     Subject: Ivies or die?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:"Some of us went to Ivies, others didn’t. "


MOST of us didn't. Have the kids read the bios of people they consider successful.



x1000000


Don't be a narrow minded striver - now THERE is a goal.


I'm confused - emulate successful people who didn't go to Ivies? Aren't they also strivers?
Anonymous
Post 12/11/2020 10:38     Subject: Ivies or die?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:There are only a few spots left on Ivies once they fill their required “mixed and legacy” spots. Many many qualified people go to “lesser” schools and do extremely well.


This is the problem. Even put that word in quotes does not change the impact on people's brains. There are brilliant people and brilliant professors at most colleges. You will get an incredible education with wonderful opportunities if you take advantage of what is available to you at most colleges. Full stop.

It is not all about the name on the diploma; its is about the person holding it.


That's what I'd tell my kids. *Obviously,* people who didn't go to Ivies get jobs, have good careers, lead happy lives. There are great professors and smart students almost everywhere. The important thing to is take advantage of what's available. In many cases, the non-Ivy will have the better program in the field you are interested in.

So you tell your kids, "I work with lots of smart, successful people. Some went to Ivies, some didn't. It's not the thing that determines the trajectory of the rest of your life. Going somewhere that is a good fit, where you can thrive, is more important because you will be able to really develop your interests and talents, you will be able to take risks and learn, develop relationships with faculty, pursue interesting projects, etc. THAT'S what will set you up for success, however you define that."
Anonymous
Post 12/11/2020 10:33     Subject: Ivies or die?
Anonymous wrote:My kids’ friends are convinced there is no other way to succeed. They believe that it’s imperative to get into an Ivy or other top-ranked school in order to make money. They are so stressed and pressured about this. I am a successful professional and know many other successful professionals. Some of us went to Ivies, others didn’t.
How can I explain to these teens that going to a college that is a good fit where they can thrive is much more important than going to an Ivy?


I'd rather have my teens obsessed with the goal of getting into an Ivy than just being a average underachieving slacker kid. Have you seen the average teen? They're dumb as a brick, lazy, addicted to the phone and video games. They've literally never finished a book. Or the other large subset of teens obsessed with playing sports, which 99.9% of the time is just a pointless time sink.
Anonymous
Post 12/11/2020 10:33     Subject: Ivies or die?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I know quite a few people who went to ivies and select LACs and aren’t doing anything of significance or making money. There have been many hired at my company who have flamed out. They were not entrepreneurial or creative thinkers (revenue generators). I am the chief legal officer at my company and the Ivy League flameouts are always the ones suing us for wrongful termination. I can always count on it.


I agree that the best way to overcome Ivy envy is to work with some of the people that went to them. Some are great, of course, but some are terrible.


+1

You start to realize that they aren't any smarter or nicer or better than anyone else. And that no normal person really cares where you went after you get your first job.
Anonymous
Post 12/11/2020 10:26     Subject: Ivies or die?
Anonymous wrote:"Some of us went to Ivies, others didn’t. "


MOST of us didn't. Have the kids read the bios of people they consider successful.



x1000000


Don't be a narrow minded striver - now THERE is a goal.
Anonymous
Post 12/11/2020 10:26     Subject: Ivies or die?
Anonymous wrote:Leave it to their parents.


+1

OP, join a country club and make a $2m+ donation, and you are in!