Anonymous wrote:yep, I know a family that moved during covid and couldn't get their acts together to enroll their kid in school until October--they didn't have the right proof of residency, couldn't fill out forms, don't have a printer, etc. And then they didn't have internet and since they owed comcast money from their old place they didn't qualify for low cost. And then when the school helped them with a hotspot and a laptop the mom still can't get herself up in the morning to help the kid log in, let alone any actual help with the subject matter. Poverty, mental illness, learning disabilities, and a lot more going on...and I think there are kids in a lot worse situations than this. Schools are going to have to do a lot of remediation.

All of this.

I work with a high SES population and can report that childcare and mental health are a huge barrier to getting kids online and keeping them there. I see parents working full time who have left their ADHD elementary school-aged children to log on by themselves. Those kids never arrive on time, and sometimes they don’t show up at all. It’s the equivalent of walking into a child’s bedroom at 6:30 a.m., saying “Don’t miss the bus,” and then deciding that’s all you need to do to get your kid to school on time. I also see a lot of kids who are “present” online but not mentally present. They turn off their cameras to game, they take three breaks per class period, and/or they wander off for ten minutes at a time. No teacher can reach through the screen and bring them back. If even 10 percent of the students do this each class period, a teacher has a dozen follow-up communications that should be made to families before the end of the day. Unfortunately a lot of those families ignore communication from school (if they haven’t outright blocked school email addresses and phone numbers).

Anonymous wrote:

This is a massive crisis; it should be front page news. It's not, though, because the people rich and influential enough to impact school policy want DL and do not care about the disastrous impacts.

Don't blame the rich. Their DC are in private schools. Blame the school boards.

I think many of the rich want continued public DL. But yes, I obviously blame the school boards too. Unions as well.

There is going to be such a massive educational disaster coming out of this that is going to reverberate for years.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yep, not shocked. It takes the effort of our entire family to make sure our kid makes it to all her classes every day, and it doesn't always happen. It's just so different from being at school where the entire environment is designed to guide kids in the right direction.

This makes me think about my middle school experience, and how the entire thing was designed to acclimate kids to the idea of moving from class to class as they would in HS, and to just generally taking more control over their education. In 6th grade, we were in a separate building where we were in dual classrooms with a teaching team. We'd do the morning in one room and the afternoon in the other, plus go to the gym together as a class. We had lockers but they were right outside our classrooms and our day was still very regimented.

Then in 7th/8th grade we moved to the bigger building and had more independence, but were still sort of corralled by grade so even though you moved around from class to class, you were on the same hallway and had a similar schedule to everyone in your grade, so if you were somewhere you weren't supposed to be, it would be obvious to teachers or administrators and you would get sent to your proper destination.

Then in HS, all the grades were mixed, you had a ton of control over your schedule, could have free periods, etc, with increasing freedom each subsequent year. It was a gradual progression from a very controlled elementary environment to one where we were treated almost as adults and expected to have the same level of responsibility over our whereabouts and schedule. And for the most part, it worked.

But now we are asking 2nd graders to operate on the level of college kids -- keeping track of a daily shifting schedule by themselves, remember passwords and computer filing systems, watching the clock to make sure they show up for the right class at the right time on the right day. It's way more than they are ready for. And yes, if you have a SAHP or a nanny or something, it helps, but very few families can afford to designate an entire adult to make sure their 8 or 9 year old is getting to class and turning in assignments and all this stuff that would normally be part of the school's job.

+1. This is why it drives me crazy to read all these shaming DCUM types talking about how well, if you had kids, step up and parent them. Like it’s our fault that this isn’t working for kids. It’s so crazy developmental inappropriate for kids to go to school online. That’s why it doesn’t work. And all the energy shaming other parents, if it’s working for your kids, is so counterproductive! Nobody thinks this is the best way. Except all the online tutoring companies etc, I guess

The shaming DCUM posters are wealthy, withdrawn, and narcissistic psychopaths who should just be ignored. Don't waste mental energy on them.

This is a massive crisis; it should be front page news. It's not, though, because the people rich and influential enough to impact school policy want DL and do not care about the disastrous impacts.

Don't blame the rich. Their DC are in private schools. Blame the school boards.

Anonymous wrote:Yep, not shocked. It takes the effort of our entire family to make sure our kid makes it to all her classes every day, and it doesn't always happen. It's just so different from being at school where the entire environment is designed to guide kids in the right direction.

This makes me think about my middle school experience, and how the entire thing was designed to acclimate kids to the idea of moving from class to class as they would in HS, and to just generally taking more control over their education. In 6th grade, we were in a separate building where we were in dual classrooms with a teaching team. We'd do the morning in one room and the afternoon in the other, plus go to the gym together as a class. We had lockers but they were right outside our classrooms and our day was still very regimented.

Then in 7th/8th grade we moved to the bigger building and had more independence, but were still sort of corralled by grade so even though you moved around from class to class, you were on the same hallway and had a similar schedule to everyone in your grade, so if you were somewhere you weren't supposed to be, it would be obvious to teachers or administrators and you would get sent to your proper destination.

Then in HS, all the grades were mixed, you had a ton of control over your schedule, could have free periods, etc, with increasing freedom each subsequent year. It was a gradual progression from a very controlled elementary environment to one where we were treated almost as adults and expected to have the same level of responsibility over our whereabouts and schedule. And for the most part, it worked.

But now we are asking 2nd graders to operate on the level of college kids -- keeping track of a daily shifting schedule by themselves, remember passwords and computer filing systems, watching the clock to make sure they show up for the right class at the right time on the right day. It's way more than they are ready for. And yes, if you have a SAHP or a nanny or something, it helps, but very few families can afford to designate an entire adult to make sure their 8 or 9 year old is getting to class and turning in assignments and all this stuff that would normally be part of the school's job.

+1. This is why it drives me crazy to read all these shaming DCUM types talking about how well, if you had kids, step up and parent them. Like it’s our fault that this isn’t working for kids. It’s so crazy developmental inappropriate for kids to go to school online. That’s why it doesn’t work. And all the energy shaming other parents, if it’s working for your kids, is so counterproductive! Nobody thinks this is the best way. Except all the online tutoring companies etc, I guess

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not surprised! I’m a stay at home mom with a high HHI and I thought I was supervising my third grader but then I got an email saying that he hadn’t logged in to his afternoon math class for a whole damn week.

A lot of it was his straight-up lying about what they were doing, but a big part was he didn’t know where to go or when. He didn’t understand how to find the links for all the different rooms he was supposed to be in and he tried to set timers and reminders but sometimes the sound was off. This stuff is hard for little kids and I think the teachers expect too much or them in terms of keeping track of time and knowing how to navigate canvas to find the next class or small group.

Now he is doing great because I am with him all the time and listening to when asynchronous time ends and he doesn’t use his headphones anymore. If I had to work I’m pretty sure he would just repeat 3rd grade. I get why we are doing it but there’s no question it’s a disaster.

So it never occurred to you to check on your kid for a week and help an 8y.o. with set up? Of course he’s too little to be doing it alone, even in f2f school you have to help them navigate and organize. It’s silly to expect teachers to be able to provide support throughout.

I was really involved at the beginning and after three or four weeks I thought he has it figured out. Wrong!

Oh and I totally forgot that the teachers didn’t want parents to supervise or assist. They told the students several times to ask the teachers for help, not their parents, as a courtesy to working parents. When I spoke with the teachers, they never said “supervise your kid,” they told me to work with him on timers and making my schedule printout more clear. Teachers really can’t ask parents to supervise all the time.

So yeah I am going to supervise my kid but it’s really unfair for the kids of parents who can’t or won’t do that.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Low cost is $10 for comcast and $20 verizon. That said, previous PP is being obtuse. Even with internet and laptop there's a lot more that goes into DL. Mainly, a supportive parent who is able to assist with computers, in English.

you need a bank account or credit card to pay even $10/month, and they may do a credit check too. Not to mention that you need to be authorized to get it installed where you’re living. a lot of barriers.

being poor is expensive. They can get bank accounts, but without minimum there are account maintenance fees or a prepaid credit card loaded with fees

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not surprised! I’m a stay at home mom with a high HHI and I thought I was supervising my third grader but then I got an email saying that he hadn’t logged in to his afternoon math class for a whole damn week.

A lot of it was his straight-up lying about what they were doing, but a big part was he didn’t know where to go or when. He didn’t understand how to find the links for all the different rooms he was supposed to be in and he tried to set timers and reminders but sometimes the sound was off. This stuff is hard for little kids and I think the teachers expect too much or them in terms of keeping track of time and knowing how to navigate canvas to find the next class or small group.

Now he is doing great because I am with him all the time and listening to when asynchronous time ends and he doesn’t use his headphones anymore. If I had to work I’m pretty sure he would just repeat 3rd grade. I get why we are doing it but there’s no question it’s a disaster.

So it never occurred to you to check on your kid for a week and help an 8y.o. with set up? Of course he’s too little to be doing it alone, even in f2f school you have to help them navigate and organize. It’s silly to expect teachers to be able to provide support throughout.

I was really involved at the beginning and after three or four weeks I thought he has it figured out. Wrong!

Plus I have a 6th grader who was trying to get used to adjusting to a demanding middle school (including doing homework for the first time) in addition to learning how to do it all online. I was helping her a lot of the time. Now that she has figured things out I have more time to spend on my third grader but I cannot believe the number of hours throughout the day I spend supervising my kids. I just hope most parents who work have kids who are more on the ball than mine are.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not surprised! I’m a stay at home mom with a high HHI and I thought I was supervising my third grader but then I got an email saying that he hadn’t logged in to his afternoon math class for a whole damn week.

A lot of it was his straight-up lying about what they were doing, but a big part was he didn’t know where to go or when. He didn’t understand how to find the links for all the different rooms he was supposed to be in and he tried to set timers and reminders but sometimes the sound was off. This stuff is hard for little kids and I think the teachers expect too much or them in terms of keeping track of time and knowing how to navigate canvas to find the next class or small group.

Now he is doing great because I am with him all the time and listening to when asynchronous time ends and he doesn’t use his headphones anymore. If I had to work I’m pretty sure he would just repeat 3rd grade. I get why we are doing it but there’s no question it’s a disaster.

So it never occurred to you to check on your kid for a week and help an 8y.o. with set up? Of course he’s too little to be doing it alone, even in f2f school you have to help them navigate and organize. It’s silly to expect teachers to be able to provide support throughout.

I was really involved at the beginning and after three or four weeks I thought he has it figured out. Wrong!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:in Montgomery County they were also given hot spots.

So, a parent or caregiver should be rushing to a hot spot, despite they may have other children and a job of their own?

Not everyone has a car. Or the ability to leave their house for hours at a time to assist their child in learning at a remote location.

While yes, school isn’t childcare, the reality is for many families, It is.

Just a clarifying comment that the hot spots are personal and were distributed at local schools. So, someone who needed a hot spot had many chances to pick one up and then can use it for multiple learners from home.

Anonymous wrote:in Montgomery County they were also given hot spots.

So, a parent or caregiver should be rushing to a hot spot, despite they may have other children and a job of their own?

Not everyone has a car. Or the ability to leave their house for hours at a time to assist their child in learning at a remote location.

While yes, school isn’t childcare, the reality is for many families, It is.

Yep, not shocked. It takes the effort of our entire family to make sure our kid makes it to all her classes every day, and it doesn't always happen. It's just so different from being at school where the entire environment is designed to guide kids in the right direction.

This makes me think about my middle school experience, and how the entire thing was designed to acclimate kids to the idea of moving from class to class as they would in HS, and to just generally taking more control over their education. In 6th grade, we were in a separate building where we were in dual classrooms with a teaching team. We'd do the morning in one room and the afternoon in the other, plus go to the gym together as a class. We had lockers but they were right outside our classrooms and our day was still very regimented.

Then in 7th/8th grade we moved to the bigger building and had more independence, but were still sort of corralled by grade so even though you moved around from class to class, you were on the same hallway and had a similar schedule to everyone in your grade, so if you were somewhere you weren't supposed to be, it would be obvious to teachers or administrators and you would get sent to your proper destination.

Then in HS, all the grades were mixed, you had a ton of control over your schedule, could have free periods, etc, with increasing freedom each subsequent year. It was a gradual progression from a very controlled elementary environment to one where we were treated almost as adults and expected to have the same level of responsibility over our whereabouts and schedule. And for the most part, it worked.

But now we are asking 2nd graders to operate on the level of college kids -- keeping track of a daily shifting schedule by themselves, remember passwords and computer filing systems, watching the clock to make sure they show up for the right class at the right time on the right day. It's way more than they are ready for. And yes, if you have a SAHP or a nanny or something, it helps, but very few families can afford to designate an entire adult to make sure their 8 or 9 year old is getting to class and turning in assignments and all this stuff that would normally be part of the school's job.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes of course this is happening. And then many above that are periodically logging in but not learning anything.

We are going to see the disastrous public health consequences of DL for many, many years. We will see things like crime waves, reduced economic activity, etc. tied to DL. Many of the teens will be permanent drop outs. Fewer kids will go to college. Some kids who lost a crucial educational window will be permanently illiterate.

It is a total travesty.

Yes I think this is what NPR is trying to get at with their article. But I’m not seeing their concern raised on the evening news; it should be covered every single night.

+1

This is a massive crisis; it should be front page news. It's not, though, because the people rich and influential enough to impact school policy want DL and do not care about the disastrous impacts.

Doesn't surprise me in the least. Like others have said poverty, mental illness, and all sorts of problems have made school low on the list of priority for many families. Also a lot of families struggling with childcare. There are many working parents on here who have documented their problems. Now imagine how much worse it would be if you were much poorer and/or didn't have a job you could do at home. These people aren't hiring nannies or tutors. The kids are left with adults, maybe older relatives, who can't or aren't invested in getting the kids on to online school every day. Or the kids are left alone at home, and some 12 yo is supposed to be going to online school and watching her younger siblings at the same time. That's not going to work out well.

in Montgomery County they were also given hot spots.