Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Lots of people have had this... Its stressful but ultimately necessary to have such a system

No, it is not necessary to have a system with a hair-trigger for removing kids from the home.

In answer to your question OP - I knew someone who had a false Shaken Baby accusation made against them. Preemie twins, one had a brain bleed at home that is common in prematurity. The ER doctor saw this as a per se sign of child abuse and referred to CPS. This was a wealthy, professional family. Thankfully they had the resources to fight this, and the babies were never removed from the home to fostercare. I think the babies went to the grandparents, and one parent (the one who was not home at the time of the brain bleed) was allowed visitation. Once it was sorted out, the family literally left the US to never return because it was so scarring.

I knew a family who, when putting the baby to bed one night, found a bump on the back of his head. Took the child to the ER and the doctor called CPS immediately. They took the child into protective custody for two weeks. They were all interviewed and it turned out the nanny dropped the baby and never told the parents. That family, especially the mother, was traumatized. She quit her job to be a SAHM and they never had another kid. It's awful

I don’t understand. How is CPS in the wrong in any way here? Their investigation turned up that the nanny dropped the baby and never told the parents. If not for CPS and the doctor who called the baby could have suffered from more neglect from that caregiver. I’m sure it was traumatizing but this story illustrates why we need CPS and why we have mandatory reporters.

Because there need to be more signs of neglect/abuse before you take a child away from its parents -- it's fundamental due process. Taking an infant away from its parents is about as extreme a deprivation of a fundamental right as one can imagine. It cannot be done on textbook definitions of "see this clinical finding, call CPS."

Just to give you a contrast about how good medical professionals handle this stuff:

My child (8) has bruises all over his legs because during DL he runs all over the house and bangs into stuff because he's antsy, and because he knocks his shins against his bike when he carries it up the stairs. I didn't really think much of it. When he went in for his well visit, his pediatrician said "Oh, I see all those bruises ... that's because you are a growing boy and running around!" I immediately told her yes, about the banging into furniture and the bike. She is very reasonable and observant, and she knows that parents don't bring in an abused child for their flu shot and well visit in the middle of a pandemic with zero concern for the doctor seeing the bruises.

I have a friend who is a doctor and she mentioned bruises on the arms and legs doesn’t raise alarm bells in an overall healthy kid without any other factors to suspect abuse. Bruising on their trunk or head, or apparently certain patterns of bruising are what they look for.

Right - and I'm so thankful my doctor is wise enough to know that there were no other concerns for abuse, instead of just a rote interpretation that multiple bruises = CPS.

Anonymous wrote:I am scared of this too. You guys should all read “small animals:parenting in the age of fear”. These days someone will call CPS on you if you let your kid out of your sight. I definitely helicopter more than I would because I’m scared of someone calling cps and having my kid taken away, rather than kid stranger danger. Most foster homes are not safe either, so if you are falsely accused there is a good chance of your child being abused or traumatized.

Most foster homes ARE safe, PP. Not that I would want my kid in one, of course, but what you are saying is simply not true and it perpetuates a scary lie. Moreover, CPS is more likely to place a child with a relative if there is one willing to do it. It would still be a terrible situation, I realize.

I am scared of this too. You guys should all read “small animals:parenting in the age of fear”. These days someone will call CPS on you if you let your kid out of your sight. I definitely helicopter more than I would because I’m scared of someone calling cps and having my kid taken away, rather than kid stranger danger. Most foster homes are not safe either, so if you are falsely accused there is a good chance of your child being abused or traumatized.

Anonymous wrote:Not me and I don’t know all of the details but I have an acquaintance that lost custody of her 3 children and still doesn't have any access to them, years later. They were all split up and living in foster homes across the country, no contact with their family of origin. She would go on these long rants on social media about how it was all part of a mass conspiracy and she was being innocently framed by a spiteful neighbor.

She was a nurse practioner and by all outside appearances seemed to have her life together. I guess not, though.

What did she do?

This happened to a close family member of mine. His daughter ( teenager) did not like following rules and that she had chores. She has lots of snowflake friends who kept telling her how horrible her parents were for making her do chores. She had a friend who claimed her dad abused her after her parents split up so she could stop going there. The dad was strict and her mom let her party all night and drink. My family members daughter thought telling a teacher at school that she was afraid to go home would get her removed and she could live with that friend and her mom. Thankfully the social worker could see there were no issues. Her parents are strict but have never hit her or make her fear for her life. The social worker basically told her if she pulled anything like that again, she would be the one in trouble.

When my brother's kids were little one of them was about a year old and he was in a walker. His three-year-old sister opened the door to the basement and pushed his walker down the stairs with him in it. They took him to the ER and the doctors reported it to CPS, probably due to the injuries although as far as I remember it was bumps and bruises. I think they thought the parents made up the story of the sister pushing him down the steps. Either that or they thought that constituted neglect. I think they were monitored for awhile but nobody took the kids away. It was traumatic however.

I feel this thread to my core. When my DD was 4, she was walking our dog. I was with her. Our dog saw a deer nearby and bolted in the other direction. Somehow the leash wrapped around my daughter and moved upward like a noose around her neck and dragged her due to the force of our 110 pound dog charging. I screamed for the dog to stop and he did. But, my daughter had horrible abrasions on her neck and it looked like we tried to behead her. When we took her into the hospital, a CPS case worker had us in an interrogation room for almost 2 hours. I was so hysterical and I am sure that did not help. My husband also blamed me and that was bad too. They did a watch on use and 2 home visits and then determined there was no threat and it was indeed a severe accident. Worst moment of my LIFE!!

Anonymous wrote:I had an experience with CPS a few years ago when my son was in a private kindergarten (our public school is only two hours/day for kindergarten). Apparently, a child told his parents that another boy had touched his privates. CPS shows up at my door demanding to enter and interview me. I was on maternity leave with my second child. It was all kinds of scary. The CPS lady interrogated me.

And then told me they wanted to interview my kindergartener - and that parents wouldn't be able to be with him during it. My husband and I were also questioned by a local detective.

What made you decide to let her enter your house and to answer her questions? Based on what I have heard in this podcast series, I want to believe that I would say no to interacting with them unless someone showed up with a warrant. I realize they are likely to threaten a removal to achieve what they can't get voluntarily, however.

We have a good friend who is a CPS worker in another state--every year we adopt 3-4 of the kids her agency serves for the holiday, so we have a good idea of what kinds of resources kids are lacking and workers are trying to provide. But 100% agree, the power they bring to the situation is scary.

If you are in doubt, just listen to the third episode of the "Do No Harm" podcast, which contains the taped interaction between the profiled family and the CPS worker the night he did the removal. Even he knew that what he was doing was dodgy as hell.

Yep, I know a young mom who lost her kids - totally lost them - to foster care after becoming homeless after leaving an abusive relationship. Family shelter had no beds and referred her to women’s shelter. Women’s shelter said the only option would be a temporary stay for her children in foster care until a family unit would become available.

And then she was in the system. The social worker took an immediate dislike to her. Had no sympathy about the abuse situation because the man was not the father of the children, and told the mom she was culpable for abuse and neglect by putting kids in a household with an abusive person. She started ordering supervised visits which my friend had to pay for, the ordered her to attend some kind of group therapy for substance abusing mothers, and when she protested and said it didn’t apply to her, that was another ding against her. It was one thing after another. So many hoops to jump. The bar kept getting higher.

And then she was in a Trap they wouldnt return the children to her until she had a family unit, but she couldn’t get a family unit when the children were not living with her. She was caught in a catch-22. Months and months went by. Eventually the kids hated coming to see her...it was only for 90 minutes one day a week, awkwardly, supervised. It never opened.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Lots of people have had this... Its stressful but ultimately necessary to have such a system

No, it is not necessary to have a system with a hair-trigger for removing kids from the home.

In answer to your question OP - I knew someone who had a false Shaken Baby accusation made against them. Preemie twins, one had a brain bleed at home that is common in prematurity. The ER doctor saw this as a per se sign of child abuse and referred to CPS. This was a wealthy, professional family. Thankfully they had the resources to fight this, and the babies were never removed from the home to fostercare. I think the babies went to the grandparents, and one parent (the one who was not home at the time of the brain bleed) was allowed visitation. Once it was sorted out, the family literally left the US to never return because it was so scarring.

I knew a family who, when putting the baby to bed one night, found a bump on the back of his head. Took the child to the ER and the doctor called CPS immediately. They took the child into protective custody for two weeks. They were all interviewed and it turned out the nanny dropped the baby and never told the parents. That family, especially the mother, was traumatized. She quit her job to be a SAHM and they never had another kid. It's awful

I don’t understand. How is CPS in the wrong in any way here? Their investigation turned up that the nanny dropped the baby and never told the parents. If not for CPS and the doctor who called the baby could have suffered from more neglect from that caregiver. I’m sure it was traumatizing but this story illustrates why we need CPS and why we have mandatory reporters.

Because there need to be more signs of neglect/abuse before you take a child away from its parents -- it's fundamental due process. Taking an infant away from its parents is about as extreme a deprivation of a fundamental right as one can imagine. It cannot be done on textbook definitions of "see this clinical finding, call CPS."

Just to give you a contrast about how good medical professionals handle this stuff:

My child (8) has bruises all over his legs because during DL he runs all over the house and bangs into stuff because he's antsy, and because he knocks his shins against his bike when he carries it up the stairs. I didn't really think much of it. When he went in for his well visit, his pediatrician said "Oh, I see all those bruises ... that's because you are a growing boy and running around!" I immediately told her yes, about the banging into furniture and the bike. She is very reasonable and observant, and she knows that parents don't bring in an abused child for their flu shot and well visit in the middle of a pandemic with zero concern for the doctor seeing the bruises.

I have a friend who is a doctor and she mentioned bruises on the arms and legs doesn’t raise alarm bells in an overall healthy kid without any other factors to suspect abuse. Bruising on their trunk or head, or apparently certain patterns of bruising are what they look for.

I had an experience with CPS a few years ago when my son was in a private kindergarten (our public school is only two hours/day for kindergarten). Apparently, a child told his parents that another boy had touched his privates. CPS shows up at my door demanding to enter and interview me. I was on maternity leave with my second child. It was all kinds of scary. The CPS lady interrogated me. And then told me they wanted to interview my kindergartener - and that parents wouldn't be able to be with him during it. My husband and I were also questioned by a local detective.

Hubby and I both have law degrees and know not to practice where we don't have expertise - especially when it might matter. So we hired the best local lawyer we could find. And we learned that CPS was likely checking us out to see if we were abusing our child. We finally agreed to have our son interviewed, per advice of the attorney. After the interview, the attitude of the CPS investigator totally changed and she told us that our son is a lovely, well-adjusted kid. They said that my son's name had been mentioned, but there was no reason to think he'd been involved. The detective seemed disappointed that there wasn't anything there.

We didn't know what our son would say to the investigators. He was so little. And we wanted to protect him from any trauma from the experience.

Ultimately, we were out a few thousand dollars, but we had some peace of mind through the process. And our son is just fine.

But, wow, those CPS folks have a scary amount of power.

I used to be a CPS investigator.

We got a lot of reports that were neighbors calling on neighbors for revenge or families reporting other family members as a way of causing drama. If the allegations were not totally batsh*t and there wasn’t obvious history, we had to investigate. It was not difficult to tell what was going on most of the time. I always tried to conduct my investigations as respectfully as I’d hope to be treated. Not all of my colleagues were that way, unfortunately.

My personal opinion about removal is that it should really be a last resort and a true safety issue. The only times I’ve removed children from their parent was when it was truly dangerous for them to stay there, due to extreme abuse and/or neglect. If there was a way to keep kids with parents who were trying but needed support in some area, my preference was to provide the resource. We gave away a lot of grocery store gift cards, especially at this time of year. Collected a lot of coats. The need is a lot bigger than many people on these boards realize.

My former colleagues tell me that the decrease in referrals is ominous to them. Everyone fees confident that it’s not a reduction in abuse and neglect but those things not being seen by a teacher because school is closed. I would say that the majority of my investigations (hundreds) were from teachers reporting abuse and neglect.

Anonymous wrote:We had someone call CPS on us out of "revenge." It was so obvious it was her and the CPS worker saw right through it as well. She (CPS worker) contacted us and we spoke with her on the phone, and she told us not to worry because it wasn't going any further.

I wonder about this all the time especially when DCUM posters say "call CPS on them" over stupid things.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know a black family that pulled themselves out of poverty. Bought a house in Chicago.
Child was diagnosed w lead poisoning. CPS eventually told parents the ultimatum was kid has to be moved out or they'll place kid elsewhere in lead free home. They lost all their equity and it totally destroyed the family.

CPS was right to tell them to find a safe home for the child. Lead poisoning causes major brain damage. Not their fault the family hadn't assured the family home was safe.

I myself have a child with lead poisoning. There are steps to take to minimize exposure. Taking away a child should be last resort. They should help pay for remediation instead.

a blogger I read had her son removed in IL when the baby had fractures. Educated, white, well-off family so they were able to hire a lawyer and they've gone on to have more kids.

I also know a family now where CPS really should get involved--there's several kinds of neglect, mentally unstable parents, history of serious physical abuse (known to law enforcement) of a child who is now out of the house. Neighbors called but the kids are still there and there's no indication the family is getting any additional services or monitoring. I'm not saying the kids definiely need to be removed but there's a huge need for therapy, parent coaching, and just oversight.