I would add that the woman has to be willing to be in an equal partnership. That means -- your husband is not always going to do things the way you do or prefer. If you are always criticizing or "making suggestions to improve" whatever it is: bathing the kids, helping with homework, folding laundry -- then he will stop doing it and suddenly you are overwhelmed with having to do everything! My mother gave me this advice and it has served me well. I've been married 35 years and we happily raised two kids together.

Anonymous wrote:Don’t you just know? I think it’s a million little things but it all adds up to: wanting a family and not being lazy.

My DH can’t really sit still so he’s so handy: building things for the house/kids, doing projects, or just cleaning or doing laundry to get some excess energy out.

Is he funny or silly? Does he care about children? Is he a family man?

It depends on the person and the context. In general, an educated and healthy person knows. People can change, but many don’t. I don’t know the stats. However - What you see is what you get. Sometimes we see a mask, sometimes we are a work in progress, sometimes we are the finished result. OP should go into her relationship search with eyes open about that and the characteristics she brings to a team/partnership in romance, and hope the partner is doing the same. Nothing removes a risk of failure or guarantees the promise of success.

I do think you can trust your gut. I didn’t trust my gut, even though I couldn’t conclude or articulate it at the time. Lessons learned and now I hope others will take the good advice I never had.

Among the people I know, most men are good 50/50 partners. Common traits:

-Generally helpful and handy.
-come from families where the mom also worked.
-decent cooks and seem to enjoy cooking to some extent.
-physically active. No couch potatoes

Some standouts: one guy is exceptionally kind to everyone, who'd give you the shirt off his back and the last drop of his water if you're ever stranded in a desert with him. Always thought his future wife would be very lucky. He turned out to be a great husband and dad.

Another guy is just tidy and thoughtful in general, and likes to take care of his parents, siblings, and friends. Of course he turned out to be a great husband and father too. Takes care of his little nuclear family just comes naturally.

My own H comes from a very traditional, religious family where old gender roles persist. But his father was a renaissance man who worked all sorts of jobs and was never not working on something. That work ethic carry over to family life too. He likes to cook and has now taken over most of the cooking.

Look at his parent’s relationship. That’s what you’ll end up with.

Don’t you just know? I think it’s a million little things but it all adds up to: wanting a family and not being lazy.

My DH can’t really sit still so he’s so handy: building things for the house/kids, doing projects, or just cleaning or doing laundry to get some excess energy out.

Is he funny or silly? Does he care about children? Is he a family man?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Easiest way to figure out what kind of husband/partner a man will be:

What kind of husband and partner is his dad?

There are exceptions of course, especially when so many guys are raised by single moms, but it’s a pretty good rule.

THIS!!! He may live his single life differently, but when he gets married and has a family, he will likely fall back into patterns he saw in his house growing up.

In DH's case, he went from fairly independent single man to expecting his wife to run the household entirely while he concentrated on work and if he did one thing, he wanted applause and a parade. Because that's how his dad and mom did it. He did a couple more things than his dad ever did (who didn't lift a finger), and thought that made him an amazingly "equal" partner.

+1

Great way to become a bitter old lady. No thanks, I'm good.

+2 I agree with this. It also drives a mid life crisis with some men too if unresolved. I dated someone whose father was an alcoholic and it was like he fought so hard to be the opposite it was difficult to imagine any other type of extreme or neutral existence. It didn’t mean he is a dealbreaker for everyone just for me because his overreaction wasn’t complimentary to the issues I came with and worked through. Or another example is the father who abandoned their son. Black women face a very complicated in that respect, as do black men for other reasons. It can get messy, but it is sad too.

Ultimately, it is about people owning their sh&t - whatever their parents did, recognizing that it wasn't all good, and actively looking to change that. If grown adults don't own their sh&t, they end up repeating the bad stuff, which only hurts them. No family is perfect, and you (he, she) need/s to take responsibility and change the negative things, so you don't make your kids relive what you had to.

Anonymous wrote:It’s all about — is he the kind of man who steps up and does what needs to be done, in any context, not just domestic. My DH would have failed a lot of these tests (never cooked for himself, SAHM mom did all his chores until mid 20s) but when something happened and his sister and kids had to come stay w him for a while (before we started dating and were just acquaintances) he really stepped up and played dad to them — found them a new school, enrolled them in activities, etc. And early in our relationship, like maybe a week or two after we had the “are we dating” talk, I suddenly had to go to the ER for a super embarrassing issue and he didn’t hesitate to drive me there and stay with me the whole time and never once made fun of me or even brought it up again. He just stepped up and did what was needed. He’s a really solid, responsible, good dude.

PP. Your experience is a great example of how someone responds to a “fault” in an “extreme” way can actually compliment you. All of that comes into play. I’m glad you were fortunate to find the missing piece to your life puzzle.

Anonymous wrote:Early in our relationship, my husband cooked and cleaned. That continued when we had kids. I don’t know what the green flags are, but I’d say if you’re marrying someone who devotes a lot of time to hobbies and video games, that’s a tough thing to change when kids are in the picture.

My husband devoted time to hobbies and video games and is now the most involved dad i know.

I would say the best sign is if he's spent time with kids before. My husband loves being with the kids.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Easiest way to figure out what kind of husband/partner a man will be:

What kind of husband and partner is his dad?

There are exceptions of course, especially when so many guys are raised by single moms, but it’s a pretty good rule.

THIS!!! He may live his single life differently, but when he gets married and has a family, he will likely fall back into patterns he saw in his house growing up.

In DH's case, he went from fairly independent single man to expecting his wife to run the household entirely while he concentrated on work and if he did one thing, he wanted applause and a parade. Because that's how his dad and mom did it. He did a couple more things than his dad ever did (who didn't lift a finger), and thought that made him an amazingly "equal" partner.

+1

Great way to become a bitter old lady. No thanks, I'm good.

+2 I agree with this. It also drives a mid life crisis with some men too if unresolved. I dated someone whose father was an alcoholic and it was like he fought so hard to be the opposite it was difficult to imagine any other type of extreme or neutral existence. It didn’t mean he is a dealbreaker for everyone just for me because his overreaction wasn’t complimentary to the issues I came with and worked through. Or another example is the father who abandoned their son. Black women face a very complicated in that respect, as do black men for other reasons. It can get messy, but it is sad too.

It’s all about — is he the kind of man who steps up and does what needs to be done, in any context, not just domestic. My DH would have failed a lot of these tests (never cooked for himself, SAHM mom did all his chores until mid 20s) but when something happened and his sister and kids had to come stay w him for a while (before we started dating and were just acquaintances) he really stepped up and played dad to them — found them a new school, enrolled them in activities, etc. And early in our relationship, like maybe a week or two after we had the “are we dating” talk, I suddenly had to go to the ER for a super embarrassing issue and he didn’t hesitate to drive me there and stay with me the whole time and never once made fun of me or even brought it up again. He just stepped up and did what was needed. He’s a really solid, responsible, good dude.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Easiest way to figure out what kind of husband/partner a man will be:

What kind of husband and partner is his dad?

There are exceptions of course, especially when so many guys are raised by single moms, but it’s a pretty good rule.

THIS!!! He may live his single life differently, but when he gets married and has a family, he will likely fall back into patterns he saw in his house growing up.

In DH's case, he went from fairly independent single man to expecting his wife to run the household entirely while he concentrated on work and if he did one thing, he wanted applause and a parade. Because that's how his dad and mom did it. He did a couple more things than his dad ever did (who didn't lift a finger), and thought that made him an amazingly "equal" partner.

+1

Great way to become a bitter old lady. No thanks, I'm good.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just saw a NYT article about working mothers during the pandemic, saw the thread about household work, and have many working mothers in my workplace. It seems like wives do so much more than husbands on average. I’m not married, and am just in the dating around phase (well, before Covid). If I want to get married to a man that pulls his weight with household and child tasks, what are some green flags? My parents were pretty equitable 60/40, and the only sign I could see as a early sign was that my dad’s mom worked outside the home.

If he makes less than you.

This is really the only answer.

...for a gold digger or someone that prioritized stability and a resources existence (and the negativity that can come with it to a man who identifies and holds no issue with it being the only relevant factor). Some of those relationships work, but it is important to distinguish a marriage that works with it va one that doesn’t. Anna Nicole Smith was happily married, as was her husband. That is an example where your statement is true. They are more outside the norm than the traditional standards and expectations people who marry in 2020+ have.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just saw a NYT article about working mothers during the pandemic, saw the thread about household work, and have many working mothers in my workplace. It seems like wives do so much more than husbands on average. I’m not married, and am just in the dating around phase (well, before Covid). If I want to get married to a man that pulls his weight with household and child tasks, what are some green flags? My parents were pretty equitable 60/40, and the only sign I could see as a early sign was that my dad’s mom worked outside the home.

If he makes less than you.

This isn’t true at all. A lot of women rule out perfect matches for the one characteristic that is the easiest to change if there is a major difference in the couple.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just saw a NYT article about working mothers during the pandemic, saw the thread about household work, and have many working mothers in my workplace. It seems like wives do so much more than husbands on average. I’m not married, and am just in the dating around phase (well, before Covid). If I want to get married to a man that pulls his weight with household and child tasks, what are some green flags? My parents were pretty equitable 60/40, and the only sign I could see as a early sign was that my dad’s mom worked outside the home.

If he makes less than you.

This is really the only answer.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think that a man who has his mother do a lot for him is just looking for a wife to take over mom's work.

I dated a guy in college who didn't know how to do laundry. How is that possible? Did he just buy new clothes every time his were dirty? No...mommy was there to take care of it for him.

My future spouse would iron my shirts so I could go on interviews. He was great at ironing and offered. It was attractive.

Red flag: guy is >25 years old and his mama is still buying his underpants. True story.

I wish there were a curriculum requirement, or maybe a legal requirement to attend 4 hours on basic “relationship” training/education before a marriage certificate is approved. Not that people would have to agree, but you sit, spend an hour listening to what studies show, the psychology and socially proven factors that can lend support to a healthy marriage. Then at least some people could have a final earning shot before signing on the dotted line. They make it too easy to marry and too hard to divorce. That is different from marriage counselling, which runs the gamut in quality anyway.