Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I love how "keen observers" miss the alarmingly high COVID rates in countries with open schools, and in areas of the US with open schools. If anything, politics have forced schools to open when they should have stayed shut.

Did you read the article? There is no correlation between covid rates and school openings. I’m still agog at supposedly progressive and intelligent DC parents who don’t get this.

NP. My observational data...
I'm not in DMV. Live just outside a mid-sized city in Pennsylvania. County has a mix of urban, suburban, and rural population. State shut down severely in late March. Phased re-opening started mid-May, but my county did not re-open until mid-June. The limitations have varied from month to month with the government updating / changing /refining restrictions, but restaurants and bars have been open since mid-June. Kids returned to travel soccer and baseball in June. Gyms re-opened in June. Kids camps opened, to include indoor (like gymnastics) in June. Churches began in person services - initially limited to 25 in person, but that increased to 50% of fire code max occupancy.
State has a mandatory mask mandate. I rarely see anyone not wearing a mask, except for outside.
My county has 8 school districts, plus a variety of private and charter schools. Roughly half began school in late August or early September under a hybrid model, and half went back full time. A few remained full online. One of my children went back in a hybrid model in late August (in the biggest district in the county with 14k students), the other remained online (charter). In October, the largest district began full in person for elementary (middle and high remained hybrid). My son's charter school went hybrid in October. Since late September, various schools have had some classes / sections / grades /entire school quarantined for 2 weeks.
July - averaged 19 new cases a day
August - averaged 22 new cases a day
September - averaged 17 new cases per day
October - averaged 36 new cases per day - over double the month prior
November - so far, averaging 76 new cases per day - again, over double the previous month.
Correlation does not equal causation... but the what changed from August to October? Schools re-opening.

Except the actual research I posted above states that school reopening is NOT correlated with spread.

Except it wasn't research.
https://www.edweek.org/ew/articles/2020/11/03/schools-need-to-be-bolder-about-reopening.html - editorial
https://www.npr.org/2020/10/21/925794511/were-the-risks-of-reopening-schools-exaggerated - 2 were international studies, one from a daycare setting, plus "anecdotal." If you haven't noticed, schools in the US vary from schools in Europe. Plus in the Spain study, there was already high community spread, so it didn't really matter.
https://policylab.chop.edu/sites/default/files/pdf/publications/PolicyLab-Policy-Review-Evidence-Guidance-In-Person-Schooling-COVID-19-Nov-2020.pdf - not a study. Plus, the recommendation was:
"we would encourage continued reopening of schools in the absence of evidence of linked transmission occurring in schools within the area, and in the absence of rapidly accelerating community
transmission (i.e., quickly approaching or reaching 9% or greater test positivity)."
In my county, percent positivity went from 5% before school re-opening to 9% in November. So, it would recommend closure at this point in time.
So sorry your limited hasty "studies" don't apply to every school district in the US. And thanks for cherry picking studies that only support your argument. There's a lot more that don't.

Right - you're smarter and better in formed than the dean of Public Health at Brown, the experts at CHOP, and numerous researchers world-wide. Oh, and you're also smarter than countless private school administrators and parents, as well as the leadership of the entire nation of Germany.

But hey, I would welcome an actual, informed debate on this, but as you very well know, all we had was the teacher's unions screaming "IT'S NOT SAFE" in cities where all the wealthy white kids were going to private schools in person.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I love how "keen observers" miss the alarmingly high COVID rates in countries with open schools, and in areas of the US with open schools. If anything, politics have forced schools to open when they should have stayed shut.

Did you read the article? There is no correlation between covid rates and school openings. I’m still agog at supposedly progressive and intelligent DC parents who don’t get this.

NP. My observational data...
I'm not in DMV. Live just outside a mid-sized city in Pennsylvania. County has a mix of urban, suburban, and rural population. State shut down severely in late March. Phased re-opening started mid-May, but my county did not re-open until mid-June. The limitations have varied from month to month with the government updating / changing /refining restrictions, but restaurants and bars have been open since mid-June. Kids returned to travel soccer and baseball in June. Gyms re-opened in June. Kids camps opened, to include indoor (like gymnastics) in June. Churches began in person services - initially limited to 25 in person, but that increased to 50% of fire code max occupancy.
State has a mandatory mask mandate. I rarely see anyone not wearing a mask, except for outside.
My county has 8 school districts, plus a variety of private and charter schools. Roughly half began school in late August or early September under a hybrid model, and half went back full time. A few remained full online. One of my children went back in a hybrid model in late August (in the biggest district in the county with 14k students), the other remained online (charter). In October, the largest district began full in person for elementary (middle and high remained hybrid). My son's charter school went hybrid in October. Since late September, various schools have had some classes / sections / grades /entire school quarantined for 2 weeks.
July - averaged 19 new cases a day
August - averaged 22 new cases a day
September - averaged 17 new cases per day
October - averaged 36 new cases per day - over double the month prior
November - so far, averaging 76 new cases per day - again, over double the previous month.
Correlation does not equal causation... but the what changed from August to October? Schools re-opening.

Or, I don't know. A drop in temperatures? More indoor unmasked indoor social activities? Trump rallies?

I mean, you can say that, my the numbers in my county look pretty similar and no public schools are open. So if our numbers increased similarly, they maybe it isn't schools.

Did your county numbers triple in 2 months?
Temperatures did not drop until the last 2 weeks... and even then, not much. It was 70 degrees last weekend. Most people have been outdoors until daylight savings. Cases in November (since it is still the beginning of the month... and tests can take 2-6 days to come back) equals exposure in October.
Trump rallies - eh, maybe. They were outdoors... but a lot of cheering and not a lot of masks.

There are no public schools open in my county. Very few privates open fully. Most use hybrid. The 7 day average case rate per 100,000 people on August 30 was 5.9. Today it is 22.3. So, no, the cases didn't double in a little over two months - they almost quadrupled with no public schools open.

Politics are why we lifted the lock down in MD and interestingly enough they are putting more restrictions in place right after the elections. If we had strong politicians who care about everyones best interests we would have continued the restrictions and maybe had a better handle on things.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I love how "keen observers" miss the alarmingly high COVID rates in countries with open schools, and in areas of the US with open schools. If anything, politics have forced schools to open when they should have stayed shut.

Did you read the article? There is no correlation between covid rates and school openings. I’m still agog at supposedly progressive and intelligent DC parents who don’t get this.

NP. My observational data...
I'm not in DMV. Live just outside a mid-sized city in Pennsylvania. County has a mix of urban, suburban, and rural population. State shut down severely in late March. Phased re-opening started mid-May, but my county did not re-open until mid-June. The limitations have varied from month to month with the government updating / changing /refining restrictions, but restaurants and bars have been open since mid-June. Kids returned to travel soccer and baseball in June. Gyms re-opened in June. Kids camps opened, to include indoor (like gymnastics) in June. Churches began in person services - initially limited to 25 in person, but that increased to 50% of fire code max occupancy.
State has a mandatory mask mandate. I rarely see anyone not wearing a mask, except for outside.
My county has 8 school districts, plus a variety of private and charter schools. Roughly half began school in late August or early September under a hybrid model, and half went back full time. A few remained full online. One of my children went back in a hybrid model in late August (in the biggest district in the county with 14k students), the other remained online (charter). In October, the largest district began full in person for elementary (middle and high remained hybrid). My son's charter school went hybrid in October. Since late September, various schools have had some classes / sections / grades /entire school quarantined for 2 weeks.
July - averaged 19 new cases a day
August - averaged 22 new cases a day
September - averaged 17 new cases per day
October - averaged 36 new cases per day - over double the month prior
November - so far, averaging 76 new cases per day - again, over double the previous month.
Correlation does not equal causation... but the what changed from August to October? Schools re-opening.

Except the actual research I posted above states that school reopening is NOT correlated with spread.

Except it wasn't research.
https://www.edweek.org/ew/articles/2020/11/03/schools-need-to-be-bolder-about-reopening.html - editorial
https://www.npr.org/2020/10/21/925794511/were-the-risks-of-reopening-schools-exaggerated - 2 were international studies, one from a daycare setting, plus "anecdotal." If you haven't noticed, schools in the US vary from schools in Europe. Plus in the Spain study, there was already high community spread, so it didn't really matter.
https://policylab.chop.edu/sites/default/files/pdf/publications/PolicyLab-Policy-Review-Evidence-Guidance-In-Person-Schooling-COVID-19-Nov-2020.pdf - not a study. Plus, the recommendation was:
"we would encourage continued reopening of schools in the absence of evidence of linked transmission occurring in schools within the area, and in the absence of rapidly accelerating community
transmission (i.e., quickly approaching or reaching 9% or greater test positivity)."
In my county, percent positivity went from 5% before school re-opening to 9% in November. So, it would recommend closure at this point in time.
So sorry your limited hasty "studies" don't apply to every school district in the US. And thanks for cherry picking studies that only support your argument. There's a lot more that don't.

Actually, both posters and the OP are probably right. First, the decision to reopen schools was mostly political, based on party affiliation and not on metrics. We can see this in states like Iowa, which set absolutely insanely high and dangerous metrics for reopening schools and then opened and kept them open as community spread increased. So not only did schools reopen, but due to a view of COVID risk, those areas that did reopen are likely much less conservative about reverting to virtual.

On the other hand, here in the DMV, most districts did not reopen, or at least reopened only in part. We had the numbers to bring at least some students back into the classroom, but didn't. We now no longer have the numbers. The number of private schools in the DMV could not have driven the type of community spread we are seeing now. If the surge mirrors the surge where schools were open, then how can you say schools are driving the surge.

In Maryland, we now have one of the higher infection rates in the country (we are 21st). That infection rate is higher that COVID hotspots like Wisconsin. In Georgia, where they reopened schools with much fanfare and what looked like not enough mask wearing, they have fewer daily cases than we do and a lower infection rate, although their positivity rate is slightly worse.

Beyond the impact of reopening schools, because the decision to reopen is political, you can expert to see community behaviors that increase spread in those areas that reopened schools. In North Dakota, there is no mask mandate at all. That is going to drive cases up, with schools open or closed. And if schools are open and masks are not required, the North Dakota experience isn't going to tell us much.

I don't think it safe to reopen now, and am almost convinced that we shouldn't try for the rest of this school year. However, based on what we are seeing now, it is hard to argue that schools are driving the surge. The vast majority of schools stayed closed and the surge happened anyway.

Oh look, a study that shows the hybrid model helps at slowing the spread of COVID... sorry it doesn't agree with you, OP.
https://herald-review.com/news/state-and-regional/study-shows-hybrid-learning-is-effective-at-slowing-covid-spread-in-illinois-schools/article_88a21035-f93e-52dd-a682-85c57f941986.html

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I love how "keen observers" miss the alarmingly high COVID rates in countries with open schools, and in areas of the US with open schools. If anything, politics have forced schools to open when they should have stayed shut.

Did you read the article? There is no correlation between covid rates and school openings. I’m still agog at supposedly progressive and intelligent DC parents who don’t get this.

NP. My observational data...
I'm not in DMV. Live just outside a mid-sized city in Pennsylvania. County has a mix of urban, suburban, and rural population. State shut down severely in late March. Phased re-opening started mid-May, but my county did not re-open until mid-June. The limitations have varied from month to month with the government updating / changing /refining restrictions, but restaurants and bars have been open since mid-June. Kids returned to travel soccer and baseball in June. Gyms re-opened in June. Kids camps opened, to include indoor (like gymnastics) in June. Churches began in person services - initially limited to 25 in person, but that increased to 50% of fire code max occupancy.
State has a mandatory mask mandate. I rarely see anyone not wearing a mask, except for outside.
My county has 8 school districts, plus a variety of private and charter schools. Roughly half began school in late August or early September under a hybrid model, and half went back full time. A few remained full online. One of my children went back in a hybrid model in late August (in the biggest district in the county with 14k students), the other remained online (charter). In October, the largest district began full in person for elementary (middle and high remained hybrid). My son's charter school went hybrid in October. Since late September, various schools have had some classes / sections / grades /entire school quarantined for 2 weeks.
July - averaged 19 new cases a day
August - averaged 22 new cases a day
September - averaged 17 new cases per day
October - averaged 36 new cases per day - over double the month prior
November - so far, averaging 76 new cases per day - again, over double the previous month.
Correlation does not equal causation... but the what changed from August to October? Schools re-opening.

Or, I don't know. A drop in temperatures? More indoor unmasked indoor social activities? Trump rallies?

I mean, you can say that, my the numbers in my county look pretty similar and no public schools are open. So if our numbers increased similarly, they maybe it isn't schools.

Did your county numbers triple in 2 months?
Temperatures did not drop until the last 2 weeks... and even then, not much. It was 70 degrees last weekend. Most people have been outdoors until daylight savings. Cases in November (since it is still the beginning of the month... and tests can take 2-6 days to come back) equals exposure in October.
Trump rallies - eh, maybe. They were outdoors... but a lot of cheering and not a lot of masks.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I love how "keen observers" miss the alarmingly high COVID rates in countries with open schools, and in areas of the US with open schools. If anything, politics have forced schools to open when they should have stayed shut.

Did you read the article? There is no correlation between covid rates and school openings. I’m still agog at supposedly progressive and intelligent DC parents who don’t get this.

NP. My observational data...
I'm not in DMV. Live just outside a mid-sized city in Pennsylvania. County has a mix of urban, suburban, and rural population. State shut down severely in late March. Phased re-opening started mid-May, but my county did not re-open until mid-June. The limitations have varied from month to month with the government updating / changing /refining restrictions, but restaurants and bars have been open since mid-June. Kids returned to travel soccer and baseball in June. Gyms re-opened in June. Kids camps opened, to include indoor (like gymnastics) in June. Churches began in person services - initially limited to 25 in person, but that increased to 50% of fire code max occupancy.
State has a mandatory mask mandate. I rarely see anyone not wearing a mask, except for outside.
My county has 8 school districts, plus a variety of private and charter schools. Roughly half began school in late August or early September under a hybrid model, and half went back full time. A few remained full online. One of my children went back in a hybrid model in late August (in the biggest district in the county with 14k students), the other remained online (charter). In October, the largest district began full in person for elementary (middle and high remained hybrid). My son's charter school went hybrid in October. Since late September, various schools have had some classes / sections / grades /entire school quarantined for 2 weeks.
July - averaged 19 new cases a day
August - averaged 22 new cases a day
September - averaged 17 new cases per day
October - averaged 36 new cases per day - over double the month prior
November - so far, averaging 76 new cases per day - again, over double the previous month.
Correlation does not equal causation... but the what changed from August to October? Schools re-opening.

Except the actual research I posted above states that school reopening is NOT correlated with spread.

Except it wasn't research.
https://www.edweek.org/ew/articles/2020/11/03/schools-need-to-be-bolder-about-reopening.html - editorial
https://www.npr.org/2020/10/21/925794511/were-the-risks-of-reopening-schools-exaggerated - 2 were international studies, one from a daycare setting, plus "anecdotal." If you haven't noticed, schools in the US vary from schools in Europe. Plus in the Spain study, there was already high community spread, so it didn't really matter.
https://policylab.chop.edu/sites/default/files/pdf/publications/PolicyLab-Policy-Review-Evidence-Guidance-In-Person-Schooling-COVID-19-Nov-2020.pdf - not a study. Plus, the recommendation was:
"we would encourage continued reopening of schools in the absence of evidence of linked transmission occurring in schools within the area, and in the absence of rapidly accelerating community
transmission (i.e., quickly approaching or reaching 9% or greater test positivity)."
In my county, percent positivity went from 5% before school re-opening to 9% in November. So, it would recommend closure at this point in time.
So sorry your limited hasty "studies" don't apply to every school district in the US. And thanks for cherry picking studies that only support your argument. There's a lot more that don't.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I love how "keen observers" miss the alarmingly high COVID rates in countries with open schools, and in areas of the US with open schools. If anything, politics have forced schools to open when they should have stayed shut.

Did you read the article? There is no correlation between covid rates and school openings. I’m still agog at supposedly progressive and intelligent DC parents who don’t get this.

NP. My observational data...
I'm not in DMV. Live just outside a mid-sized city in Pennsylvania. County has a mix of urban, suburban, and rural population. State shut down severely in late March. Phased re-opening started mid-May, but my county did not re-open until mid-June. The limitations have varied from month to month with the government updating / changing /refining restrictions, but restaurants and bars have been open since mid-June. Kids returned to travel soccer and baseball in June. Gyms re-opened in June. Kids camps opened, to include indoor (like gymnastics) in June. Churches began in person services - initially limited to 25 in person, but that increased to 50% of fire code max occupancy.
State has a mandatory mask mandate. I rarely see anyone not wearing a mask, except for outside.
My county has 8 school districts, plus a variety of private and charter schools. Roughly half began school in late August or early September under a hybrid model, and half went back full time. A few remained full online. One of my children went back in a hybrid model in late August (in the biggest district in the county with 14k students), the other remained online (charter). In October, the largest district began full in person for elementary (middle and high remained hybrid). My son's charter school went hybrid in October. Since late September, various schools have had some classes / sections / grades /entire school quarantined for 2 weeks.
July - averaged 19 new cases a day
August - averaged 22 new cases a day
September - averaged 17 new cases per day
October - averaged 36 new cases per day - over double the month prior
November - so far, averaging 76 new cases per day - again, over double the previous month.
Correlation does not equal causation... but the what changed from August to October? Schools re-opening.

Or, I don't know. A drop in temperatures? More indoor unmasked indoor social activities? Trump rallies?

I mean, you can say that, my the numbers in my county look pretty similar and no public schools are open. So if our numbers increased similarly, they maybe it isn't schools.

BINGO. These decisions are not being made with careful consideration of local conditions and public health advice.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I love how "keen observers" miss the alarmingly high COVID rates in countries with open schools, and in areas of the US with open schools. If anything, politics have forced schools to open when they should have stayed shut.

Did you read the article? There is no correlation between covid rates and school openings. I’m still agog at supposedly progressive and intelligent DC parents who don’t get this.

NP. My observational data...
I'm not in DMV. Live just outside a mid-sized city in Pennsylvania. County has a mix of urban, suburban, and rural population. State shut down severely in late March. Phased re-opening started mid-May, but my county did not re-open until mid-June. The limitations have varied from month to month with the government updating / changing /refining restrictions, but restaurants and bars have been open since mid-June. Kids returned to travel soccer and baseball in June. Gyms re-opened in June. Kids camps opened, to include indoor (like gymnastics) in June. Churches began in person services - initially limited to 25 in person, but that increased to 50% of fire code max occupancy.
State has a mandatory mask mandate. I rarely see anyone not wearing a mask, except for outside.
My county has 8 school districts, plus a variety of private and charter schools. Roughly half began school in late August or early September under a hybrid model, and half went back full time. A few remained full online. One of my children went back in a hybrid model in late August (in the biggest district in the county with 14k students), the other remained online (charter). In October, the largest district began full in person for elementary (middle and high remained hybrid). My son's charter school went hybrid in October. Since late September, various schools have had some classes / sections / grades /entire school quarantined for 2 weeks.
July - averaged 19 new cases a day
August - averaged 22 new cases a day
September - averaged 17 new cases per day
October - averaged 36 new cases per day - over double the month prior
November - so far, averaging 76 new cases per day - again, over double the previous month.
Correlation does not equal causation... but the what changed from August to October? Schools re-opening.

Or, I don't know. A drop in temperatures? More indoor unmasked indoor social activities? Trump rallies?

I mean, you can say that, my the numbers in my county look pretty similar and no public schools are open. So if our numbers increased similarly, they maybe it isn't schools.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I love how "keen observers" miss the alarmingly high COVID rates in countries with open schools, and in areas of the US with open schools. If anything, politics have forced schools to open when they should have stayed shut.

Did you read the article? There is no correlation between covid rates and school openings. I’m still agog at supposedly progressive and intelligent DC parents who don’t get this.

NP. My observational data...
I'm not in DMV. Live just outside a mid-sized city in Pennsylvania. County has a mix of urban, suburban, and rural population. State shut down severely in late March. Phased re-opening started mid-May, but my county did not re-open until mid-June. The limitations have varied from month to month with the government updating / changing /refining restrictions, but restaurants and bars have been open since mid-June. Kids returned to travel soccer and baseball in June. Gyms re-opened in June. Kids camps opened, to include indoor (like gymnastics) in June. Churches began in person services - initially limited to 25 in person, but that increased to 50% of fire code max occupancy.
State has a mandatory mask mandate. I rarely see anyone not wearing a mask, except for outside.
My county has 8 school districts, plus a variety of private and charter schools. Roughly half began school in late August or early September under a hybrid model, and half went back full time. A few remained full online. One of my children went back in a hybrid model in late August (in the biggest district in the county with 14k students), the other remained online (charter). In October, the largest district began full in person for elementary (middle and high remained hybrid). My son's charter school went hybrid in October. Since late September, various schools have had some classes / sections / grades /entire school quarantined for 2 weeks.
July - averaged 19 new cases a day
August - averaged 22 new cases a day
September - averaged 17 new cases per day
October - averaged 36 new cases per day - over double the month prior
November - so far, averaging 76 new cases per day - again, over double the previous month.
Correlation does not equal causation... but the what changed from August to October? Schools re-opening.

Except the actual research I posted above states that school reopening is NOT correlated with spread.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I love how "keen observers" miss the alarmingly high COVID rates in countries with open schools, and in areas of the US with open schools. If anything, politics have forced schools to open when they should have stayed shut.

Did you read the article? There is no correlation between covid rates and school openings. I’m still agog at supposedly progressive and intelligent DC parents who don’t get this.

NP. My observational data...
I'm not in DMV. Live just outside a mid-sized city in Pennsylvania. County has a mix of urban, suburban, and rural population. State shut down severely in late March. Phased re-opening started mid-May, but my county did not re-open until mid-June. The limitations have varied from month to month with the government updating / changing /refining restrictions, but restaurants and bars have been open since mid-June. Kids returned to travel soccer and baseball in June. Gyms re-opened in June. Kids camps opened, to include indoor (like gymnastics) in June. Churches began in person services - initially limited to 25 in person, but that increased to 50% of fire code max occupancy.
State has a mandatory mask mandate. I rarely see anyone not wearing a mask, except for outside.
My county has 8 school districts, plus a variety of private and charter schools. Roughly half began school in late August or early September under a hybrid model, and half went back full time. A few remained full online. One of my children went back in a hybrid model in late August (in the biggest district in the county with 14k students), the other remained online (charter). In October, the largest district began full in person for elementary (middle and high remained hybrid). My son's charter school went hybrid in October. Since late September, various schools have had some classes / sections / grades /entire school quarantined for 2 weeks.
July - averaged 19 new cases a day
August - averaged 22 new cases a day
September - averaged 17 new cases per day
October - averaged 36 new cases per day - over double the month prior
November - so far, averaging 76 new cases per day - again, over double the previous month.
Correlation does not equal causation... but the what changed from August to October? Schools re-opening.

For the record, here is what public health authorities actually say about reopening schools:

Children's Hospital of Pennsylvania: https://policylab.chop.edu/sites/default/files/pdf/publications/PolicyLab-Policy-Review-Evidence-Guidance-In-Person-Schooling-COVID-19-Nov-2020.pdf

Key points include that schools have reopened successfully where there is low community transmission (like DC in August) and "it appears that a higher case incidence
might be tolerated for in-person learning in some settings—particularly for younger children—and with continued adherence to strong school safety plans. "

In addition, CHOP states that "Most school-associated transmission has occurred outside of school or
because of poor adherence to masking protocols. " Notably the poor masking was by the ADULT STAFF - not the kids.

"Research Finds that the Risks of Reopening were Exaggerated"

https://www.npr.org/2020/10/21/925794511/were-the-risks-of-reopening-schools-exaggerated

Key point: "Despite widespread concerns, two new international studies show no consistent relationship between in-person K-12 schooling and the spread of the coronavirus. And a third study from the United States shows no elevated risk to childcare workers who stayed on the job."

Finally, "Schools Need to be Bolder about Reopening"
https://www.edweek.org/ew/articles/2020/11/03/schools-need-to-be-bolder-about-reopening.html

Key points: Dr. Ahish Jha, dean of Brown School of Public Health, states "There’s no doubt in my mind that schools need to be bolder than they’re being. There is a large mental health cost to children. And we know this is going to very substantially widen the achievement gap between wealthier/white students and poorer/students of color. The effect is going to be felt for a very long time."

Anonymous wrote:OP, you are stating the obvious. But another aspect is the "novel" aspect of this virus. Some studies show "x" while others studies show "opposite of x" and still another study is inconclusive. First kids didn't get sick or seem to spread it. Then wait, some do, and they can also get a severe reaction similar with a rash. Turns out children, particularly older children and teens, can spread it.
How can we say "let science decide" when the science is constantly evolving around this? I'm not saying ignore the studies or the science, but realize it is still "novel" with a lot of differing conclusions in thousands of studies.

So the default is to just deprive kids of their education, because we don't have 100% certainty? That's certainly not the way cultures with money (private school parents), cultures with a mission to educate (Catholics and some charters) and cultures that value education (Germany et al) are acting. This is a POLITICAL question. What you're getting at -- how to weigh decisions in a time of uncertainty -- was not done. Instead, politics ruled. That's the point.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is ridiculous that people pretend that schools are magical places where the virus can’t be transmitted. We know how quickly illness spreads in schools. COVID is more contagious than many others, and schools are ill equipped to prevent spread. Period. Unless you shut down everything else (including grocery stores and hospitals), prevented people from socializing, and kept schools open you have no idea how much community spread is a result of open schools. We see huge virus outbreaks in areas with open schools and people are like “but restaurants!” Kids eat in my classroom twice a day (breakfast and lunch). That IS indoor dining, and without the stringent cleaning and air filtration systems restaurants have. Just admit that you want schools open and don’t care about the repercussions, and then we can have an honest conversation.

And yet, catholic schools and other privates are open in this area without any outbreaks. It can be done, when mitigation measures are taken and community spread is below certain metrics.

Please, show us evidence that there are no outbreaks. Many private schools are simply not required to report cases and obviously choose not to, because it looks bad. I work in NYC and there have been 2,000+ cases (over a thousand staff members and 900+ students) even though we are open at a quarter capacity, there is “random” testing, and nightly disinfection.

I reject the idea that there can be NO outbreaks in schools. That is a harmful standard, and it’s not recommended by any public health authority.

OP, you are stating the obvious. But another aspect is the "novel" aspect of this virus. Some studies show "x" while others studies show "opposite of x" and still another study is inconclusive. First kids didn't get sick or seem to spread it. Then wait, some do, and they can also get a severe reaction similar with a rash. Turns out children, particularly older children and teens, can spread it.
How can we say "let science decide" when the science is constantly evolving around this? I'm not saying ignore the studies or the science, but realize it is still "novel" with a lot of differing conclusions in thousands of studies.