Anonymous wrote:My younger brother just went into rehab after years of alcohol abuse. This is a good thing but he’s now making the rounds with family and apologizing for his bad behavior. We had been close and kids but as we reached out 30’s his drinking got out of control. Over the years he has insulted my family, especially me and my wife totally unprovoked at family gatherings. I didn’t realized the extend of his alcohol abuse then and just thought he was being a jerk and limited contact. Since he’s let me know he wants to talk about this I suddenly feel really mad again about all of his antics. I’m not sure I’m ready to have these conversations with him. Has anyone who has had a family member in the recovery process not participated in these talks?

I'm mean, that is your right (not to meet him). But I guess I'd ask what do you hope to accomplish? Yes, he was a jerk. But, you now know it was influenced by his alcohol problem and b HE WANTS TO APOLOGIZE. Not letting him won't heal your anger.

Now if he was abusive, you have safety issues with seeing him, that's a different issue. But, based on what you say above, I don't understand why you're digging in your heels about receiving an apology. And, FTR, apologizing doesn't mean you have to accept him in your life, have a relationship with him, or do anything else.

The biggest piece in all of this is you don't HAVE to accept amends. Hearing him doesn't mean you have to have a relationship again. This might be the only chance you have to vent your side of the issue and get it out there for him to process (or not - who knows where he's going with this). So you don't have to go into this with the idea that there will be an apology or any way to rectify things. Maybe for you it can be just a release of the anger you've been carrying so you can close the door more firmly on your side.

Anonymous wrote:OP here. I appreciate all if this advice. Right now I just can't stop thinking about all the hurtful things my brother has done. The most recent incident involved texting me and my wife old photos of me and my ex from over 20 yrs ago, Then insinuating they were recent photos. Earlier gatherings usually have involved him bringing up something from my past to my wife or trying to get other people in the room to admit that they hate my wife and talk about her behind her back. Other situations among may others have involved insults about my kids being rich assholes. I just don't understand where these came from and the behavior is always unprovoked. I have never received an apology for any of them. When I state to other family why I have chosen to distance myself, the only response I get is that my bro is jealous because he's in a loveless marriage. That's not an excuse. I'm mad there's no accountability in my family and that my parents keep enabling it.

This is what you need to work on. Your anger and hurt may be justified, but I think that you have to find a way to (1) separate your anger at your brother from your anger at your family -- your family being wrong shouldn't be allowed to interfere with an opportunity for reconciliation and healing, and (2) let go of some of this anger. Whether or not you end up reconciling with your brother, you don't want to be carrying this around the rest of your life. And if you're so mad that your brother never apologized for his conduct that you can't listen to him apologize, it's a bit self-defeating. You want to get to a place where you can listen, and then decide how you want to move forward. Forgiving him doesn't mean you have to pretend the past never happened, or that you're okay with what he did, or that you're willing to accept bad treatment in the future. And listening to his apology doesn't mean you have to accept that apology or forgive him. I highly recommend Al-Anon, so you can find out how people deal with navigating these situations.

I am going through this now but my sibling isn’t at the stage of apologizing to everyone yet. However my enabling mother is making sibling out to be something of a hero for becoming sober. No accountability for the lying, fighting and pain they’ve caused so many family members

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. I appreciate all if this advice. Right now I just can't stop thinking about all the hurtful things my brother has done. The most recent incident involved texting me and my wife old photos of me and my ex from over 20 yrs ago, Then insinuating they were recent photos. Earlier gatherings usually have involved him bringing up something from my past to my wife or trying to get other people in the room to admit that they hate my wife and talk about her behind her back. Other situations among may others have involved insults about my kids being rich assholes. I just don't understand where these came from and the behavior is always unprovoked. I have never received an apology for any of them. When I state to other family why I have chosen to distance myself, the only response I get is that my bro is jealous because he's in a loveless marriage. That's not an excuse. I'm mad there's no accountability in my family and that my parents keep enabling it.

You really need to get into therapy about this. I'm not saying you don't have a right to be angry but I am saying that you shouldn't be so angry still. You need to reconcile yourself to what has happened. You can't change it and it sounds like you need to get over some of it so you can be more at peace with who you are and what has happened to you.

You also need to figure out what is happening with your family dynamic. It is unusual for a family to side with the alcoholic if the interactions and actions have been so damaging. That doesn't mean it doesn't happen but it does mean there is probably something else going on.

Wrong. It is a VERY common dynamic for people to side with the addict or abuser. And there's a whole brand of toxic positivity built up around it -- emphasizing making peace, moving on, healing the family rifts -- to make anyone who sets boundaries with these people and their enablers seem like the bad guys.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. I appreciate all if this advice. Right now I just can't stop thinking about all the hurtful things my brother has done. The most recent incident involved texting me and my wife old photos of me and my ex from over 20 yrs ago, Then insinuating they were recent photos. Earlier gatherings usually have involved him bringing up something from my past to my wife or trying to get other people in the room to admit that they hate my wife and talk about her behind her back. Other situations among may others have involved insults about my kids being rich assholes. I just don't understand where these came from and the behavior is always unprovoked. I have never received an apology for any of them. When I state to other family why I have chosen to distance myself, the only response I get is that my bro is jealous because he's in a loveless marriage. That's not an excuse. I'm mad there's no accountability in my family and that my parents keep enabling it.

You really need to get into therapy about this. I'm not saying you don't have a right to be angry but I am saying that you shouldn't be so angry still. You need to reconcile yourself to what has happened. You can't change it and it sounds like you need to get over some of it so you can be more at peace with who you are and what has happened to you.

You also need to figure out what is happening with your family dynamic. It is unusual for a family to side with the alcoholic if the interactions and actions have been so damaging. That doesn't mean it doesn't happen but it does mean there is probably something else going on.

Wow you live a sheltered life. It is very usual for the family to side with whomever has the dysfunction. It's part and parcel of the screwed up dynamics.

Agree. My ex’s family enables him in every way. They don’t want to be victim to his behavior so they just enable him. He’s a wreck, treats people terribly, and is a terrible parent (and he’s an abusive alcoholic). It’s a mess.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. I appreciate all if this advice. Right now I just can't stop thinking about all the hurtful things my brother has done. The most recent incident involved texting me and my wife old photos of me and my ex from over 20 yrs ago, Then insinuating they were recent photos. Earlier gatherings usually have involved him bringing up something from my past to my wife or trying to get other people in the room to admit that they hate my wife and talk about her behind her back. Other situations among may others have involved insults about my kids being rich assholes. I just don't understand where these came from and the behavior is always unprovoked. I have never received an apology for any of them. When I state to other family why I have chosen to distance myself, the only response I get is that my bro is jealous because he's in a loveless marriage. That's not an excuse. I'm mad there's no accountability in my family and that my parents keep enabling it.

You really need to get into therapy about this. I'm not saying you don't have a right to be angry but I am saying that you shouldn't be so angry still. You need to reconcile yourself to what has happened. You can't change it and it sounds like you need to get over some of it so you can be more at peace with who you are and what has happened to you.

You also need to figure out what is happening with your family dynamic. It is unusual for a family to side with the alcoholic if the interactions and actions have been so damaging. That doesn't mean it doesn't happen but it does mean there is probably something else going on.

It almost sounds like you are blaming the OP for being the recipient of the bad behavior or is to blame.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. I appreciate all if this advice. Right now I just can't stop thinking about all the hurtful things my brother has done. The most recent incident involved texting me and my wife old photos of me and my ex from over 20 yrs ago, Then insinuating they were recent photos. Earlier gatherings usually have involved him bringing up something from my past to my wife or trying to get other people in the room to admit that they hate my wife and talk about her behind her back. Other situations among may others have involved insults about my kids being rich assholes. I just don't understand where these came from and the behavior is always unprovoked. I have never received an apology for any of them. When I state to other family why I have chosen to distance myself, the only response I get is that my bro is jealous because he's in a loveless marriage. That's not an excuse. I'm mad there's no accountability in my family and that my parents keep enabling it.

You really need to get into therapy about this. I'm not saying you don't have a right to be angry but I am saying that you shouldn't be so angry still. You need to reconcile yourself to what has happened. You can't change it and it sounds like you need to get over some of it so you can be more at peace with who you are and what has happened to you.

You also need to figure out what is happening with your family dynamic. It is unusual for a family to side with the alcoholic if the interactions and actions have been so damaging. That doesn't mean it doesn't happen but it does mean there is probably something else going on.

Wow you live a sheltered life. It is very usual for the family to side with whomever has the dysfunction. It's part and parcel of the screwed up dynamics.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. I appreciate all if this advice. Right now I just can't stop thinking about all the hurtful things my brother has done. The most recent incident involved texting me and my wife old photos of me and my ex from over 20 yrs ago, Then insinuating they were recent photos. Earlier gatherings usually have involved him bringing up something from my past to my wife or trying to get other people in the room to admit that they hate my wife and talk about her behind her back. Other situations among may others have involved insults about my kids being rich assholes. I just don't understand where these came from and the behavior is always unprovoked. I have never received an apology for any of them. When I state to other family why I have chosen to distance myself, the only response I get is that my bro is jealous because he's in a loveless marriage. That's not an excuse. I'm mad there's no accountability in my family and that my parents keep enabling it.

You really need to get into therapy about this. I'm not saying you don't have a right to be angry but I am saying that you shouldn't be so angry still. You need to reconcile yourself to what has happened. You can't change it and it sounds like you need to get over some of it so you can be more at peace with who you are and what has happened to you.

You also need to figure out what is happening with your family dynamic. It is unusual for a family to side with the alcoholic if the interactions and actions have been so damaging. That doesn't mean it doesn't happen but it does mean there is probably something else going on.

No, it really is not unusual.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. I appreciate all if this advice. Right now I just can't stop thinking about all the hurtful things my brother has done. The most recent incident involved texting me and my wife old photos of me and my ex from over 20 yrs ago, Then insinuating they were recent photos. Earlier gatherings usually have involved him bringing up something from my past to my wife or trying to get other people in the room to admit that they hate my wife and talk about her behind her back. Other situations among may others have involved insults about my kids being rich assholes. I just don't understand where these came from and the behavior is always unprovoked. I have never received an apology for any of them. When I state to other family why I have chosen to distance myself, the only response I get is that my bro is jealous because he's in a loveless marriage. That's not an excuse. I'm mad there's no accountability in my family and that my parents keep enabling it.

You really need to get into therapy about this. I'm not saying you don't have a right to be angry but I am saying that you shouldn't be so angry still. You need to reconcile yourself to what has happened. You can't change it and it sounds like you need to get over some of it so you can be more at peace with who you are and what has happened to you.

You also need to figure out what is happening with your family dynamic. It is unusual for a family to side with the alcoholic if the interactions and actions have been so damaging. That doesn't mean it doesn't happen but it does mean there is probably something else going on.

This type of enabling behavior is not uncommon at all. Especially for a child or family member who is favored.

Anonymous wrote:OP here. I appreciate all if this advice. Right now I just can't stop thinking about all the hurtful things my brother has done. The most recent incident involved texting me and my wife old photos of me and my ex from over 20 yrs ago, Then insinuating they were recent photos. Earlier gatherings usually have involved him bringing up something from my past to my wife or trying to get other people in the room to admit that they hate my wife and talk about her behind her back. Other situations among may others have involved insults about my kids being rich assholes. I just don't understand where these came from and the behavior is always unprovoked. I have never received an apology for any of them. When I state to other family why I have chosen to distance myself, the only response I get is that my bro is jealous because he's in a loveless marriage. That's not an excuse. I'm mad there's no accountability in my family and that my parents keep enabling it.

You really need to get into therapy about this. I'm not saying you don't have a right to be angry but I am saying that you shouldn't be so angry still. You need to reconcile yourself to what has happened. You can't change it and it sounds like you need to get over some of it so you can be more at peace with who you are and what has happened to you.

You also need to figure out what is happening with your family dynamic. It is unusual for a family to side with the alcoholic if the interactions and actions have been so damaging. That doesn't mean it doesn't happen but it does mean there is probably something else going on.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Sorry, but no. OP's brother *just* entered rehab/recovery. Relapse is part of that. The onus is on the brother to demonstrate he is making amends, not on OP to actively help him. Sure, he can't go back and fix what he has done, but he should have to reckon with it for a while and truly understand the hurt he's caused. He doesn't get a free pass because he's saying sorry early on in the recovery process. Addicts and alcoholics are master manipulators, sorry, but that's just a sad fact of addiction. You can show compassion without letting him back in to hurt you again. And yes, I learned that in Al-Anon.

OP, you can forgive your brother without having him be a part of your lives. Your anger here is justified. Of course, it is healthy and important to get past that, but don't let anyone rush you into doing or feeling anything you and your family aren't ready to do.

Sooooo...there is a time limit? It is too soon for the brother to apologize even if some of the events occurred years ago? Really? According to your logic the brother has to wait how long exactly before saying he is sorry? I don't think you really paid enough attention in Al-Anon and you need to go back for a refresher. You're cherry picking for things that fit your story. Stop giving advice that is wrong and that does not reflect what the Al-Anon program represents.

I'm on the exact same position with a family member. She doesn't know my young children and has reached out to make amends and build a relationship after years of being extremely verbally abusive, manipulative, and downright mean due to alcohol and prescription drug abuse. I've thought long and hard and I don't have it in me. She has burned the bridge many, many times over and there's absolutely no foundation left to begin building again. Im completely at peace with my decision and hope you can find peace in yours whatever that may be, OP.

Anonymous wrote:OP here. How do you handle a situation where the person sort of apologizes but then says they blacked out so don’t remember the bad behavior? Do you bring up specifics?

What do you want him to do exactly? If he blacked out then he blacked out. He apologized. Accept it and move on. You are choosing to carry this if you don't accept the apology. That's on you, not him.

OP here. I appreciate all if this advice. Right now I just can't stop thinking about all the hurtful things my brother has done. The most recent incident involved texting me and my wife old photos of me and my ex from over 20 yrs ago, Then insinuating they were recent photos. Earlier gatherings usually have involved him bringing up something from my past to my wife or trying to get other people in the room to admit that they hate my wife and talk about her behind her back. Other situations among may others have involved insults about my kids being rich assholes. I just don't understand where these came from and the behavior is always unprovoked. I have never received an apology for any of them. When I state to other family why I have chosen to distance myself, the only response I get is that my bro is jealous because he's in a loveless marriage. That's not an excuse. I'm mad there's no accountability in my family and that my parents keep enabling it.