Anonymous wrote:Absent trauma, abuse, or crime it seems like the issue revolves around everyone being too self-centered to extend themselves to others. My family is close because we let everyone live their own lives, withhold judgement and extend help. We spend time together (some more often than others) and build these relationships.

“Absent trauma, abuse or crime” like those are rare things in families with estrangements! Lol. You are smug because you are ignorant. Abuse and trauma are in fact LEGION in dysfunctional families; under-discussed, under-reported. Crime, too — do you think people with criminal records, from drunk drivers to tax fraud, dont have siblings? My sister and her partner are not allowed in my house because her partner would ABSOLUTELY steal my social security card and sell it for $5. My uncle would ABSOLUTELY give my underage child vodka. My mom would ABSOLUTELY lie to police about anything, even the time of day.

Nice job on letting everyone live their own lives in harmony and acceptance tho.

Take into account that some adults would rather spend their time doing something other than frequently seeing family members. That isn't necessarily a bad thing. PPs describe making it fun and welcoming.

OK, but what if your personalities just don't mesh. Then you can have a mature relationship with siblings and parents that aren't the kind where you spend a lot of time texting or visiting.

Absent trauma, abuse, or crime it seems like the issue revolves around everyone being too self-centered to extend themselves to others. My family is close because we let everyone live their own lives, withhold judgement and extend help. We spend time together (some more often than others) and build these relationships.

Anonymous wrote:Did your parents make you guys compete against one another? Compare you? (Why cant you be more like your brother? Susan is the smart one, but Beth is the pretty one?) Was there a shortage of resources or attention that made you feel like you had to compete?

We had all that and I have very consciously worked to not compare my kids or make them compete. Our family motto is 'we are all on the same team' and we work to support one another. Last summer my daughter had to go to summer school to take a language class that she failed in college and her younger brother who is great at foreign languages asked if we would pay for him to take it too so they could study together. One of my proudest moments as a parent.

This is key—parents set up the dynamic between siblings. Criticism from parents also contributes to resentment between siblings.

OP - you talk in extremes

That's a big part of the problem. A problem with your family. Not everything thing is extreme, needs to be viewed this way

As an example ~ I am civil with my brother and sister but we only actually see each other a few times a year despite living nearby.

A few times a year does not have to be a bad thing. Does not have to be an unusual thing. "Civil" can be, instead, not being in sync.

Mostly, Op you over think it. And you emphasize the negative. Change that to help your own family.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:See a therapist, make sure you are in a good place emotionally as you raise your kids. I worry about this too but I think the "I would die" language is concerning. Use firm but positive parenting strategies. Focus on having good communication as a family. If anyone in the family is struggling get help.

Some siblings will have conflict no matter what you do, but most families like this (including mine) have trauma that makes it hard for us to be around each other.

OP here and that’s what gets me...we DONT have any trauma, thank God. Our parents are still married. We grew up white, middle class. No abuse, drugs. My siblings just hate each other. We don’t spend holidays together. It’s...bizarre.

The emotional styles of parents can, themselves, be traumatizing to kids, and that trauma can affect their emotional styles as adults. And that is to say nothing of behavior that could take place even within the boundaries you have laid out.

What are your parents like? How did they respond to your emotional needs? How did they respond to your strong feelings--and their own? And same for all of your siblings? TBH the fact that you have not commented on this raises my suspicion that your parents underserved one or all of you in this way.

+1

PP here. Excellent points!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:See a therapist, make sure you are in a good place emotionally as you raise your kids. I worry about this too but I think the "I would die" language is concerning. Use firm but positive parenting strategies. Focus on having good communication as a family. If anyone in the family is struggling get help.

Some siblings will have conflict no matter what you do, but most families like this (including mine) have trauma that makes it hard for us to be around each other.

OP here and that’s what gets me...we DONT have any trauma, thank God. Our parents are still married. We grew up white, middle class. No abuse, drugs. My siblings just hate each other. We don’t spend holidays together. It’s...bizarre.

The emotional styles of parents can, themselves, be traumatizing to kids, and that trauma can affect their emotional styles as adults. And that is to say nothing of behavior that could take place even within the boundaries you have laid out.

What are your parents like? How did they respond to your emotional needs? How did they respond to your strong feelings--and their own? And same for all of your siblings? TBH the fact that you have not commented on this raises my suspicion that your parents underserved one or all of you in this way.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:See a therapist, make sure you are in a good place emotionally as you raise your kids. I worry about this too but I think the "I would die" language is concerning. Use firm but positive parenting strategies. Focus on having good communication as a family. If anyone in the family is struggling get help.

Some siblings will have conflict no matter what you do, but most families like this (including mine) have trauma that makes it hard for us to be around each other.

OP here and that’s what gets me...we DONT have any trauma, thank God. Our parents are still married. We grew up white, middle class. No abuse, drugs. My siblings just hate each other. We don’t spend holidays together. It’s...bizarre.

As for the “I would die”...perhaps that’s extreme, but family is SO important to me. Even growing up I knew my family wasn’t close like other families. I didn’t have grandparents or cousins and I desperately wanted them. So yes, I’ll be upset if my children don’t speak to each other. I’ll be upset if we don’t gather around the table...ever.

I just can’t believe sometimes that I’ll probably never see my siblings again at the same time, until my parents funeral. That’s grim.

Sorry OP but there is trauma. I have zero contact with my sister because she was abusive. There are plenty of relatives in my family who truly, honestly think nothing happened, or that something got overblown, or there was a misunderstanding. Major estrangements do not happen for those reasons. You definitely need to see a therapist and read more about these dynamics. Frankly the fact that your primary concern is that YOU will not have some postcard holiday event with the siblings and/or extended family is not a promising sign.

This. I could have written this. I think you are living in denial or just lacking insight or empathy if you think your siblings are not close for no reason whatsoever. I agree with the poster who said your language is concerning.."I would die!" is melodramatic and extreme. Therapy might help you be more realistic and have more insights into your family dynamics.

Don't treat your children differently from one another, don't make them compete, don't guilt them. Accept their partners and let them create their own families instead of insisting the partners assimilate into yours.

Anonymous wrote:My two cents here is to make it fun for your family members to get together. Isn't that the point of being close -- to enjoy spending time together? Yet I have experienced and heard of so many family gathering driven by guilt and criticism -- berating people for not coming to past events or criticizing them for not staying longer or how they chose to cook or what they brought... would you be excited to go to a family gathering like that? You might be able to make people attend sometimes through guilt and obligation, but it won't last. Make it warm and welcoming and it will be easy to get them to come.

+1

PP here. Totally agree with this. Sometimes the alternative to spending (for example) "vacation" with your immediate family is ......rearranging your sock drawer. If it is fun, warm and engaging - not just out of obligation and posting photos on social media (and sometimes deliberately leaving one or two immediate family members out so it actually looks like they were not there most of the time, when they actually were there most of the time - MIL I am talking to you).

If it is fun, warm and engaging - people will want to take part, not just feel like they have to (because it might be their last holiday, whatever). I mean, if you live close by, shouldn't you be seeing each other on the regular? Not just for photos?

Anonymous wrote:Personalities can be very different and while we can avoid personalities with random people we meet, we cannot with our relatives. And sometimes those personalities are too hurtful when coming from family.

I wish I had a stronger bond with my sister. I’ve tried multiple times throughout my life. Always putting aside my feelings and biting my tongue. But at some point it creeps into the territory of abuse. I’ve had to walk on eggshells around her my whole life.

You get to a point of self preservation. It’s sad, but it is what it is.

OP here and wow this sounds like me. Not abuse, but the eggshells. I also felt like a girl constantly chasing a boy. “Are you free now?”

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:See a therapist, make sure you are in a good place emotionally as you raise your kids. I worry about this too but I think the "I would die" language is concerning. Use firm but positive parenting strategies. Focus on having good communication as a family. If anyone in the family is struggling get help.

Some siblings will have conflict no matter what you do, but most families like this (including mine) have trauma that makes it hard for us to be around each other.

OP here and that’s what gets me...we DONT have any trauma, thank God. Our parents are still married. We grew up white, middle class. No abuse, drugs. My siblings just hate each other. We don’t spend holidays together. It’s...bizarre.

As for the “I would die”...perhaps that’s extreme, but family is SO important to me. Even growing up I knew my family wasn’t close like other families. I didn’t have grandparents or cousins and I desperately wanted them. So yes, I’ll be upset if my children don’t speak to each other. I’ll be upset if we don’t gather around the table...ever.

I just can’t believe sometimes that I’ll probably never see my siblings again at the same time, until my parents funeral. That’s grim.

OP, it's not bizarre at all in affluent families. Need brings people together far more often than choice does. I empathize with your strong feelings, but beyond encouraging your children to get along and trying to create happy memories for them, this is entirely out of your hands.

My two cents here is to make it fun for your family members to get together. Isn't that the point of being close -- to enjoy spending time together? Yet I have experienced and heard of so many family gathering driven by guilt and criticism -- berating people for not coming to past events or criticizing them for not staying longer or how they chose to cook or what they brought... would you be excited to go to a family gathering like that? You might be able to make people attend sometimes through guilt and obligation, but it won't last. Make it warm and welcoming and it will be easy to get them to come.

Anonymous wrote:Here are things you can do - I have a pretty close family and some dysfunctional aspects - here is what I think works.

Call or text a lot - share photos, do zooms (a silver lining of void)

send gifts and/or birthday cards

visit when you can - even short time

try not to let small slights get in the way - if your brother doesn't call when you are sick, let it go - that is, if you want to have a relationship

Don't force your kids to be close - that will certainly back fire - but you can do it subtly - I tell my kids - ohh - your brother would love that photo - send it to him, or whatever - just to encourage

remind your kids and your siblings of birthdays so they can remember and bring everyone closer

If you want family to be the priority, model that ---- call family first to celebrate holidays, or when something good happens

+1

NP here. I will add - be able to share other people's joy, especially immediate family members (that you want to be close to). If you favor one sibling/family member over another (especially true with offspring) - it will show and it will create a tremendous divide.

MIL goes over the top gah gah over distant relatives, but it kills her to say more than one word responses to DH. DH feels it, and feels no obligation to MIL - but I know how MIL (fails to) react hurts DH. DH never did anything to his family, and has only given - which backfired, sadly. He tries to be there and do for them, even though he has much less time (they have empty nests, DH does not. Plus, DH has to be in many different places for more than full time work, and his family does not - just two big examples). I try to encourage DH to see MIL more, but DH has a lot on his plate, and (he says) no one ever stepped forward to ask how he is doing.

As a consequence, DC also see the situation from DH's perspective, as they get older. They are kind to DH's family, but they are well aware that some are treated differently than others, for absolutely no reason. I have always been supportive and quiet about the situation, maybe they want some big throw down confrontation drama about what a sh&tty family they were to DH, I don't know. At this point, it doesn't really matter that much, except when they (repeatedly) leave DH out, and I see his hurt. It's BS behavior from grown adults, for some perceived slight that doesn't exist, but they like the drama. My friends think his siblings might be jealous. But I wasn't there all those years, through all the drama, so it is really not my job to play peacekeeper, or whatever. I know they try to project on me, which just becomes hilarious, at that point, since I know I did nothing - and like I said, I wasn't even there (thankfully) when the foundation for the dysfunction was laid.

OP, if you can be happy for immediate family - that says a lot about one's character. If you stir up drama, or there is an immediate family member who can "do no right" they are going to want to stay away, because they will feel no matter how much they do, it won't be enough.

Here are things you can do - I have a pretty close family and some dysfunctional aspects - here is what I think works.

Call or text a lot - share photos, do zooms (a silver lining of void)

send gifts and/or birthday cards

visit when you can - even short time

try not to let small slights get in the way - if your brother doesn't call when you are sick, let it go - that is, if you want to have a relationship

Don't force your kids to be close - that will certainly back fire - but you can do it subtly - I tell my kids - ohh - your brother would love that photo - send it to him, or whatever - just to encourage

remind your kids and your siblings of birthdays so they can remember and bring everyone closer

If you want family to be the priority, model that ---- call family first to celebrate holidays, or when something good happens