Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The competition that annoys me the most is when it's related to comparisons of children. That is hands down the quickest way to get me to cut a friend off. Children are off limits. If your insecurities run so deep that you need to compare kids, I will see you to the door with a quickness.

Agreed, but sometimes it is subtle. I think that's the problem with a lot of competition among women. It's not the way it gets portrayed in the media -- it's usually not overt or obvious. It's a series of carefully phrased comments that get under your skin over time. And it's hard to say anything about, because if you call them out, they can always say "Oh, I didn't mean it that way." But she did.

I don't think it's all women, and that even women who do this don't do it all the time or with everyone. But I do think some women have a specific way of pissing on their territory that is especially frustrating. I sometimes wish a woman would just come out and say "I don't like you" rather than claiming to love me while always trying to top every story I tell or making little comments about my husband or kids that aren't exactly critical... but aren't supportive either. It's death by paper cut and I hate it.

I feel like I'm getting better at spotting women like this earlier on in a friendship and just choosing not to get close. But when I was younger, I would often not catch on until I was drawn into these weird frenemy relationships and then there would be drama when I tried to extract myself. But I think it's a specific personality that does this kind of thing -- very insecure women who need to assert dominance over other women in order to feel confident in themselves. It's... not great!

Anonymous wrote:Bumping this old thread, largely because I’ve seen this among my friend group now at 38.

At 24, everyone was largely living the same post college, pre grad school life. At 35-40? Now that weddings, honeymoons, babies, houses, cars, school have come into the mix? I’m definitely sensing some competition among my friends and it sucks. Not everyone, but definitely some. It’s almost this, Oh I’m so successful, I make so much, I have such a good marriage blah blah blah. It makes me sad - friendships I cherished but now feel overly competitive. How are others dealing? Me and OP can’t be the only ones.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here.

I am skeptical of anyone who says that none of their friends ever do this. I think sometimes friends can go through good times where there isn't much competition and where people get along well. But if you have women friends for a long time, I think you inevitably hit patches where rivalry comes up. Again, I've seen it in friends from every era of my life at some point or another. I'll be rolling along great in a friendship and then something will shift -- someone starts a new relationship, work gets stressful, someone's marriage is on the rocks, etc. -- and dynamics change. I am struggling to think of a single female friendship I've had that hasn't had a phase like this.

I'm not saying women are naturally competitive or that all my friends are always insecure and jealous. Far from it -- I love these women. They are funny, accomplished, kind, interesting. But this dynamic always comes up eventually. It is particularly present in my life right now. I wonder if it is a mid-life crisis thing. Most of the women I know are late 30s, early 40s, and I see a lot of people assessing where they are at in life and sometimes lashing out, and other times getting smug. They are both ugly behaviors.

I also don't know if this is unique to women. But I'm a woman and while I have friends with people of all genders, I only notice these dynamics in my female friendships.

I absolutely agree with you, but also I believe women are naturally competitive. Why wouldn't we be? Men are competitive with each other in terms of money, sports, status, sex.

While women are innately hive-minded, we also compete to maintain our standing and hold-on to our resources. When we're younger, we tend to focus on our attractiveness and ability to secure a mate, which can impact female friendships if we're hunting at the same watering hole. When we have partners or spouses, we compare them to those of our friends. As we age, we compare our resources--careers, money, homes--and our families. We shouldn't feel bad about entertaining these normal thoughts. It's only negative when we or others in our friendship-circle are insecure, resentful, need to dominate, and sabotage other friends.

As another PP mentioned, I think it is easier to maintain healthy female friendships when there is some diversity in the group. And if there is someone who has any of those negative traits mentioned above, by all means, end it.

Anonymous wrote:OP here.

I am skeptical of anyone who says that none of their friends ever do this. I think sometimes friends can go through good times where there isn't much competition and where people get along well. But if you have women friends for a long time, I think you inevitably hit patches where rivalry comes up. Again, I've seen it in friends from every era of my life at some point or another. I'll be rolling along great in a friendship and then something will shift -- someone starts a new relationship, work gets stressful, someone's marriage is on the rocks, etc. -- and dynamics change. I am struggling to think of a single female friendship I've had that hasn't had a phase like this.

I'm not saying women are naturally competitive or that all my friends are always insecure and jealous. Far from it -- I love these women. They are funny, accomplished, kind, interesting. But this dynamic always comes up eventually. It is particularly present in my life right now. I wonder if it is a mid-life crisis thing. Most of the women I know are late 30s, early 40s, and I see a lot of people assessing where they are at in life and sometimes lashing out, and other times getting smug. They are both ugly behaviors.

I also don't know if this is unique to women. But I'm a woman and while I have friends with people of all genders, I only notice these dynamics in my female friendships.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

PP, find your voice, and express yourself with confidence. You don’t have to be dramatic, or have ill will. Liken yourself to a dam, establishing a solid security measure when the demands of others seek to overtake you. Hold the door, and define your boundary, it can be in a very quiet whisper, a silently loving look - or a clear direct expression. Even something as simple as: “I disagree.”

And nothing more. Start with that. We should only be held captive to the authority we choose to submit to.eventually, you may be able to redirect the energy of this symbolic dam in a way that gives light to others. Don’t reduce the power just redirect and don’t be afraid to be yourself.

If you cannot to this — untangle yourself completely, and then reassess your capacity.

Also read up on codependency. It can happen in friendships. One friendship we were codependents!! But we grew out of it together, isn’t that something?

I wish the best for you. .

PP here. Thank you so much for the thoughtful response to my late night rant (welp!). This question really got me riled up because it is something that has been bothering me for a while and you're absolutely right about setting boundaries and untangling.

Anonymous wrote:

PP, find your voice, and express yourself with confidence. You don’t have to be dramatic, or have ill will. Liken yourself to a dam, establishing a solid security measure when the demands of others seek to overtake you. Hold the door, and define your boundary, it can be in a very quiet whisper, a silently loving look - or a clear direct expression. Even something as simple as: “I disagree.”

And nothing more. Start with that. We should only be held captive to the authority we choose to submit to.eventually, you may be able to redirect the energy of this symbolic dam in a way that gives light to others. Don’t reduce the power just redirect and don’t be afraid to be yourself.

If you cannot to this — untangle yourself completely, and then reassess your capacity.

Also read up on codependency. It can happen in friendships. One friendship we were codependents!! But we grew out of it together, isn’t that something?

I wish the best for you. .

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I had this dynamic with a long time childhood friend. She was upset I had a family before she did and made a few hurtful comments about my husband and kids. When she finally got married and she and her husband made more money than us and lived in a fancier zip code- she was insufferable- she acted like we were less than her. We both mutually ended the friendship when she became pregnant. I couldn't stomach the thought of having to listen to endless stories/pics about how her awesome her kids were when she had disparaged mine.

+1 for only having this problem with a long time childhood friend. None of the friends I have made from college through adulthood are like this - they happy for my wins, empathetic for the losses, and I feel like they're on my side. We support and love each other.

Childhood friend got very mean when I had professional success right out of college, and took it personally when I wouldn't go out drinking or travel because of work obligations. Every conversation was about how I was such a loser for working long hours, and how I was going to die alone and never have fun again.

Then I got married in late 20s (she is/was single), took a big step back to go back to school and try something new and she would always comment about how sad it is that I'll never have the excitement of dating again, how boring it must be to only have sex with one person, faux-empathy about how difficult it must be to start a new career just dripping with condescension, about how her job is more important than mine, better paid, and how she works harder than me.

I stopped drinking after the kids came for health and mental reasons. I wasn't a messy/problem drinker other than occasionally in college, but she was there for it and now takes every opportunity possible to bring up this one specific night (10+ years ago!) where I threw up after drinking too much on a post-heartbreak/breakup bender. WTF lady, this was a decade ago and my poor, stupid little 20 year old heart was broken. Is it really that funny? BUT she also has to talk about how much more fun I was when I drank.

We don't see her often now because COVID, but before that also because her social life revolves around drinking and it's awkward for me. When we do see her it's just constant belittling for the strangest things (I'm wearing clothes I had a decade ago, how she would 'rather die' than live in my UMC 'boring' suburb, I am pathetic because we have the same vacations every year, I go to bed too early because I don't respond to texts after 10pm, most recently mocking me for being a 'basement dwelling loser' for not wanting to come over to her indoor wine and cheese night during COVID, which she held 3 days after being in the UK, etc.).

I want to ditch her permanently but she is close with a group of girls I've known my whole life and it would be really impossible without cutting them all off, which I don't want to do. She is not nearly as catty and mean with them, but was not as close growing up and had less in common with them from ~12-21 years old so I suspect she's hurt and/or angry that my priorities changed as I got older compared to hers. I never initiate contact but I am just dying to respond to the next text with 'if you think I'm such an insufferable loser, why do you keep messaging me?'.

Anonymous wrote:I had this dynamic with a long time childhood friend. She was upset I had a family before she did and made a few hurtful comments about my husband and kids. When she finally got married and she and her husband made more money than us and lived in a fancier zip code- she was insufferable- she acted like we were less than her. We both mutually ended the friendship when she became pregnant. I couldn't stomach the thought of having to listen to endless stories/pics about how her awesome her kids were when she had disparaged mine.