We let our kids have a 15-20 minute show before going upstairs to start the bedtime routine. Getting into PJs, using the bathroom and brushing teeth (and showers if it's a shower night) happen BEFORE they get the show and only if they cooperate through that process. Then we go upstairs for books/songs/snuggles.

My kids are also 5 and 3. The older one used to fight sleep, but turned a corner and now lets us know he’s ready for bed earlier than bedtime some nights. It’s great. But we really had to keep enforcing the importance of sleep and sometimes use melatonin during really rough phases.

My 3 year old is just a maniac. But after 2 books and tuck in, the door is closed. I can’t force him to sleep, but he does have to stay in his dimly lit room. He can have a couple small toys or flip through a book. Eventually he falls asleep on his own. Sometimes one of us has to go back in because he needs to potty or whatever. But it’s quick then done. Big hug. Then goodnight again. Over and over. No letting them get what they want by mom staying in there for 45 minutes.

I’d be losing my mind too if I were you OP. That grownup downtime at night is so needed! Reclaim it so you can be your best mom self.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why sit with them? Read for 15 minutes, bathroom and then shut the door. If they come out, walk them back. If you hear them out of bed, open the door and put them back in bed. It might take a week, but then they'll be going to bed by themselves and not getting out.

This. I basically cut the routine to the bone. Put them into bed, give them a hug and kiss, and say goodnight. I promise your kids will be ok. If YOU feel guilty, be extra lovey throughout the day. Read earlier. Reclaim your evenings/night. Everyone will be better off.

Yep, came here to say this. Just leave them. Honestly, you can do consequences, too. One night, my 3 yo daughter kept fussing about her blanket and asking me to "fix it" over and over. I finally just said if she kept asking about it I was going to take her blanket away. The end.

I don't have a 9 year old to contend with, but we have 5 and 3 year olds. Our routine is:
5:30-6 showers for both while husband cooks dinner
6 - dinner
when dinner is done they get to watch a show on TV. So 20- 25 minutes streaming. They have the option of a small snack, like raisins. During that time, we clean up dinner and get school lunches ready.
After show immediately upstairs. Brush teeth, read 2 books.
On a good day, lights are out 7:30-7:45. On a bad day, 8.

Husband and I trade off which kid we deal with. Kids alternate who showers first and that kid gets to choose the show. We do not stay with them in their room more than 2 minutes after lights out. They get a 1 minute warning. They would never go to sleep if we're in the room with them.

They have stoplight clocks. When it's red they must stay in bed unless they are sick or have to pee. During the week it's set to turn green at 6:15 AM. On weekends at 7:30 AM. The 3 year old naps at daycare so she's not that tired when lights are out but she stays in bed and sings songs to herself.

Haven’t read all the posts, but I have lights out between 6:15 & 6:30pm for my almost 5 year old. He’s asleep around 6:45pm. Try much earlier, OP!

Anonymous wrote:[twitter]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do they nap?

If so, stop the naps.

Here are typical days for 3yo
1. Falls asleep in car or on couch at 3pm, can’t hack a whole day. Might stay up till 10
2. Falls asleep in car or couch at 5-6pm. Argh. We have a friend hand out with us until 11:30
3. Today = stayed awake! Played soccer with me and ran hard in the evening. Ready for bed sort of between 8:30-9:40 (done 8:30 but big kids were still getting ready and we did some more stories). Finally fell asleep 10:40. WHY?

Your child is exhausted! I know it seems counterintuitive but you need to start bedtime earlier. You should start baths at 6 or 6:30 at night and have your 3year old in bed ready for sleep before 7:30 pm. Everything you describe is exactly how kids behave who are sleep deprived and acting hyper from exhaustion.

+1. You need a consistent daily and nightly routine. Don’t let 3 yo nap. Bedtime way earlier. Our 3 yo doesn’t nap and is in bed for the night by 7. 7:30 absolute latest if we are busy and bedtime is pushed back a bit. You have to really prioritize sleep. This may mean sacrificing family activities in the evenings, it may mean putting him to bed before your spouse is even home from work. Is better sleep worth it to you?

I know it’s boring to have the same routine each day but that’s what life w young kids is...

+1 and I’d add that the consistent routine should include meal/ snack times, not just sleep and wake up times. (I think I saw something up thread about you asking them randomly if they’re hungry at 7pm) Little kids thrive on consistency. I’d also echo that the 3yo at least might benefit from a much earlier bedtime.

My kids (2 and 5) are not perfect sleepers by any means but they are always up by 7/7:30 and lights out is 7:30/8. They sometimes take longer to fall asleep but they stay in their rooms.

Good luck, this sounds so difficult!!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why sit with them? Read for 15 minutes, bathroom and then shut the door. If they come out, walk them back. If you hear them out of bed, open the door and put them back in bed. It might take a week, but then they'll be going to bed by themselves and not getting out.

This. I basically cut the routine to the bone. Put them into bed, give them a hug and kiss, and say goodnight. I promise your kids will be ok. If YOU feel guilty, be extra lovey throughout the day. Read earlier. Reclaim your evenings/night. Everyone will be better off.

Love this advice.
Does anyone else remember when Mrs. March told Meg to do this with the twins in "Little Women?" I couldn't believe how many of Meg's parenting problems were similar to my own I guess some things haven't changed in 150 years.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why sit with them? Read for 15 minutes, bathroom and then shut the door. If they come out, walk them back. If you hear them out of bed, open the door and put them back in bed. It might take a week, but then they'll be going to bed by themselves and not getting out.

This. I basically cut the routine to the bone. Put them into bed, give them a hug and kiss, and say goodnight. I promise your kids will be ok. If YOU feel guilty, be extra lovey throughout the day. Read earlier. Reclaim your evenings/night. Everyone will be better off.

I agree with this. We went to stay with friends a few years ago, and my friend and I left my then 3 year old with her husband and their children. I had such a hard time getting my little guy to bed, but he had no problem. He read him a story and told him to go to bed. That was it. I asked him to do it again the next night so I could see.
After that, I did the same thing, and it worked.

I did have to speak in a voice that's deeper than my normal voice when I told my son to go to bed or he would just ignore me. I'm not sure if that's something all kids respond to or just mine.

Kids will go to sleep or at least be quiet when you want it more than they do.

Anonymous wrote:oh and you need to do everything in your power when you are trying these early bedtimes to NOT let your 3 year old fall asleep (and then put him to bed at 6). Watch him like a hawk, do not drive anywhere in the afternoon and if you must (home from daycare for example) make sure he has something very active to work on that he enjoys very much to keep him distracted in the car - whatever works for your kid to keep them awake but to get this back on track you'll have to make this a priority even if it means both of you going to pick up for a few days so one can be in the back and make sure he doesn't fall asleep.

Good luck!

Enlist the older kids to help keep him awake in the car: sing silly songs, play clapping games with him, etc.

oh and you need to do everything in your power when you are trying these early bedtimes to NOT let your 3 year old fall asleep (and then put him to bed at 6). Watch him like a hawk, do not drive anywhere in the afternoon and if you must (home from daycare for example) make sure he has something very active to work on that he enjoys very much to keep him distracted in the car - whatever works for your kid to keep them awake but to get this back on track you'll have to make this a priority even if it means both of you going to pick up for a few days so one can be in the back and make sure he doesn't fall asleep.

Good luck!

Yes OP I agree with everyone they are incredibly overtired. I'm so sorry, it's so hard and exhausting. But you need to start bedtime at 6. When my son gets in this cycle we literally try to have him in the bed by 6:30, sometimes 6 when it's crazy. You also need something consistent about whether you are going to stay in there or not. My son is a few months off from 3 but for us, we never stay in the room but we will do check ins. Check ins are still painful but at least we can remain consistent. "Mommy will check in every 5 minutes, when the timer goes off telling me 5 minutes is up, I will come in and check on you." We let him ask for a hug if he needs it, give him a big hug and kiss, and repeat the 5 minute check in - we do not engage in other back and forth during the check in except sometimes to empathize "I know you're missing mommy and daddy, we are right nearby, you can rub your lovey, tell yourself a story, sing a song until you fall asleep" etc. The first couple nights there was a little crying but not much and now it only happens about once a week if he's really overtired (he's back to daycare right now so more tired than usual). In my experience bedtime is soo much more difficult and sooo much more long when they are overtired so it's almost invariably your answer. You have to move bedtime way way up for awhile til they catch up.

Also if you start something like check ins you need to tell them before nightime, explain that you are doing something new and explain how it will work. Put the boundaries up clearly and then hold them, but you need to prep them for it don't spring it on them.

Again I'm sorry I know it can be so tough - hope you all get some relief soon!

Anonymous wrote:Why sit with them? Read for 15 minutes, bathroom and then shut the door. If they come out, walk them back. If you hear them out of bed, open the door and put them back in bed. It might take a week, but then they'll be going to bed by themselves and not getting out.

This. I basically cut the routine to the bone. Put them into bed, give them a hug and kiss, and say goodnight. I promise your kids will be ok. If YOU feel guilty, be extra lovey throughout the day. Read earlier. Reclaim your evenings/night. Everyone will be better off.

Why sit with them? Read for 15 minutes, bathroom and then shut the door. If they come out, walk them back. If you hear them out of bed, open the door and put them back in bed. It might take a week, but then they'll be going to bed by themselves and not getting out.

I didn't have a chance to read through all of the responses but your children sound overtired. I've noticed it in myself too, that I take much longer to fall asleep when I am more exhausted. They're overtired, they don't fall asleep easily, they don't stay asleep, they become overtired.
My kids are the same spacing, but 4 & 6 now. Last year, when they were in full-day school & preschool, they used to go to bed at 6:30pm. That was the only way they got enough sleep to be rested enough for the long day. Now, with WFH/ DL, we don't have the mad morning rush, so bedtime is 7pm.
The solution for you may be to have a drastically early bedtime for a week or two, to break the cycle. I would aim for 6pm. Give them dinner at 4:30, and blaze through bath/ books/ brush teeth/ PJ etc. Give them incentives to do a quicker job. We add minutes that they "earn" for being quick to their weekend cartoon watching time. Once they go to bed, do not engage at all unless it's a real emergency. You can also offer incentives to stay in the room till the morning, etc. The key is to be consistent!