Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Amen, sister!

If I had one piece of advice to my younger self, it would be too extensively try out early on anyone who I was interested in dating - can they cook? do they clean their own house, can they plan and carry out activities that are thoughtful of others? do they prioritize my needs over theirs at least half the time?

Marriage is only partially about falling in love with someone; it is also about finding an equal partner in life.

Similar--I looked very hard at whether a guy could at a bare minimum take care of himself (buying/ cleaning his clothes, keeping himself and his home clean) and then considerate and cooperation. Aaaaaand never married. Can probably count on one hand the number of husbands among friends and family that meet this standard. The vast majority of men in my cohort were apparently still raised in a very sexist way and expect women to take care of them. I'd like to think it's changing...

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is so obvious, it comes across as annoying and whiny when people expect their sex lives to be like college.

When I was in college I had a completely carefree existence. I went to classes and spent time with my boyfriend and friends, end stop. The dining halls provided meals, laundry was minimal, and I had a tiny one room space to take care of. Of course I was up for sex daily or twice a day.

Anyone who expects anywhere near that frequency when they have a fulltime job, house and kids is an idiot.

And yet here we are literally every day with men just have NO clue why the woman they married isn't up for daily lunchtime romps when he demands it.

As a man I feel there is “bait and switch.”

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Husband here - with two careers and three kids and everything that entails sex 1-2 times a week is very reasonable.

So you send cards to her parents for each birthday, anniversary
You send cards or email your SIL, BIL, their kids for special occasions?
you buy them all gifts
You handle the friend Bday parties and gifts
you plan and organize and oversee your kids Bday parties
You do the laundry for the kids
You cook for the family
You field all calls from the school
You find, plan, pay for and take the kids to their extracuriculars
You attend all school functions and meetings
You grocery shop

You’re being a mommy martyr. Don’t do all those things. Let the kids play outside. Don’t send cards to in-laws. Have the kids do laundry. Don’t volunteer to do anything at church you don’t have time to do. Don’t attend all school meetings if you don’t have time. Have the kids and their dad figure out birthday gifts.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Husband here - with two careers and three kids and everything that entails sex 1-2 times a week is very reasonable.

So you send cards to her parents for each birthday, anniversary
You send cards or email your SIL, BIL, their kids for special occasions?
you buy them all gifts
You handle the friend Bday parties and gifts
you plan and organize and oversee your kids Bday parties
You do the laundry for the kids
You cook for the family
You field all calls from the school
You find, plan, pay for and take the kids to their extracuriculars
You attend all school functions and meetings
You grocery shop

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OK, but if sex were an enjoyable, positive break that made you feel connected to your partner, seen, loved, beautiful, whatever you're into, it'd be a lot more appealing regardless of your schedule. And in the absence of that, it's always going to be a bit of a chore.

I have never viewed sex as a chore ever but there are times where I just don't have the physical bandwidth to do it. Not with everything else going on. Add to that DH likes me to be really into it and if I am not it doesn't 'count' to him. So, there are MANY reasons why I am not chomping at the bit to tear his clothing off and little has to do with me seeing it as a chore but rather something that I just can't get around to that day.
Now if he wanted to help pick up some slack around the house I may have 15 extra minutes to throw his way.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is so obvious, it comes across as annoying and whiny when people expect their sex lives to be like college.

When I was in college I had a completely carefree existence. I went to classes and spent time with my boyfriend and friends, end stop. The dining halls provided meals, laundry was minimal, and I had a tiny one room space to take care of. Of course I was up for sex daily or twice a day.

Anyone who expects anywhere near that frequency when they have a fulltime job, house and kids is an idiot.

And yet here we are literally every day with men just have NO clue why the woman they married isn't up for daily lunchtime romps when he demands it.

As a man I feel there is “bait and switch.”

As a woman, I feel there was a bait and switch too!

My boyfriend used to do tons of stuff to help me out when we were dating, and yet, post-marriage, all the household stuff is on my plate and he pitches in sometimes, when he can — if he’s not too tired. I want that dating level of attention too! Bait and switch for sure.

Anonymous wrote:Husband here - with two careers and three kids and everything that entails sex 1-2 times a week is very reasonable.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Man here, the above reply from the woman is the reason why so many divorce or affair. Too much resentment built up. Like how it's hard for me to see my wife as sexual after a decade of complete sexual abandonment. Oh now you want to have sex after rejecting me for 8 years?

It's tough stuff, no one is necessarily wrong. And of course men are idiots if they think nothing will change after the kids come. All I wanted was 30 minutes of us time once a week or so but that wasn't possible for her.

PP here that I think you’re referring to. We have sex 1 -2 times a week now but reading this thread took me right back to the anger over that period of our relationship. When he slips into the chores for sex mode I get mad and lash out. Clearly we have more reckoning to do but outside of this issue we are doing ok. I am hoping eventually even this kind of discussion won’t be a trigger.

Anonymous wrote:Man here, the above reply from the woman is the reason why so many divorce or affair. Too much resentment built up. Like how it's hard for me to see my wife as sexual after a decade of complete sexual abandonment. Oh now you want to have sex after rejecting me for 8 years?

It's tough stuff, no one is necessarily wrong. And of course men are idiots if they think nothing will change after the kids come. All I wanted was 30 minutes of us time once a week or so but that wasn't possible for her.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because that's not all there is to the story. In addition to lack of time, added stress, and added responsibility, the decline in a woman's sexual interest in her husband ALSO happens because of things like boredom, age, and hormonal shifts.

Some of the things that cause the lack of sexual interest are entirely outside of the guy's control. And even if the husband does what he can to improve all of the factors he can control and even when the time required for child care lets up, the wife often remains uninterested. I think that if we were more forthright about the fact that a spouse (usually but not always the wife) can experience declining sexual interest through nobody's fault, there would be somewhat less consternation when the sex did decline.

As it is, we have this notion that if the husband does everything right and his wife loves him, she'll want to have sex with him. When the sex goes away, it can feel like she's either unfairly blaming him and/or doesn't love him. That's why a guy doesn't get nearly as resentful about lack of sex when his wife, for example, has a serious illness as he does when, for all he can see, she just doesn't care about him.

Being better about chores for a little while does not erase the fundamental disrespect and lack of caring that wives experience when the workload is unfair for a long period of time. It is not enough to stop being unfair, you have to actually repair the damage.

Exactly. It can feel really shitty and transactional for a husband to start doing half the chores when the youngest kid is 5 and then act like he deserves a medal. If you spend almost a decade destroying your relationship, don’t expect that unloading the dishwasher 3 times a week is going to result in sex 3 times a week.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because that's not all there is to the story. In addition to lack of time, added stress, and added responsibility, the decline in a woman's sexual interest in her husband ALSO happens because of things like boredom, age, and hormonal shifts.

Some of the things that cause the lack of sexual interest are entirely outside of the guy's control. And even if the husband does what he can to improve all of the factors he can control and even when the time required for child care lets up, the wife often remains uninterested. I think that if we were more forthright about the fact that a spouse (usually but not always the wife) can experience declining sexual interest through nobody's fault, there would be somewhat less consternation when the sex did decline.

As it is, we have this notion that if the husband does everything right and his wife loves him, she'll want to have sex with him. When the sex goes away, it can feel like she's either unfairly blaming him and/or doesn't love him. That's why a guy doesn't get nearly as resentful about lack of sex when his wife, for example, has a serious illness as he does when, for all he can see, she just doesn't care about him.

Being better about chores for a little while does not erase the fundamental disrespect and lack of caring that wives experience when the workload is unfair for a long period of time. It is not enough to stop being unfair, you have to actually repair the damage.

Anonymous wrote:Amen, sister!

If I had one piece of advice to my younger self, it would be too extensively try out early on anyone who I was interested in dating - can they cook? do they clean their own house, can they plan and carry out activities that are thoughtful of others? do they prioritize my needs over theirs at least half the time?

Marriage is only partially about falling in love with someone; it is also about finding an equal partner in life.