Anonymous wrote:I don’t care what ethnicity this company is owned by. I do care that 1) they appear to be teaching children to cheat on the TJ admissions test 2) appear to only be willing to teach children of Indian descent and 3) pressured LCPS to maintain their numbers at TJ to preserve their business.

When people cannot compete with hard work and intelligence then they blame everything else. No one is cheating. If the tests are made available to the owners of this prep company before the examination why is no one going after them? Hmmm.... I mean there is still FBI and law and order in this country. So why has no one been able to catch all the owners of all these prep companies?

Why not send your kid to this prep company and get a good idea of what they are teaching and how they are cheating?

You are being f**ked in the rear by Trump but you want to blame a minority group for whatever is wrong with this country and your life. You are basically a damn racist.

Who goes to these prep classes?

- Highest performing exceptional students who have been working hard since elementary school
- Parents are both STEM educated, well off, immigrants who come from cultures that value education over all else.
- Can afford these classes either because HHI is high or because they live frugally and save for education.
- Kids who have all their lives socialized with kids who come to these classes. This amount of hard work (4-6 hours every day) is normal for them.

This is a highly self-selected group. 25% get in and 75% does not. Try getting your typical American kid to sit down and study for 6-8 hours each and every day during the whole summer break or during the pandemic. It will not happen.

This is not a replicable model because no average American kid is willing to put in this much time and hard work, no average American family wants to devote so much time, effort or energy into living frugally, helping their child study, and spending their life around their kids education.

Seriously, most of us could not handle a toilet paper shortage. We should leave this alone.

This conversation really reframes the idea of "merit" as being a measurable part of the TJ admissions process. This is a course that, according to their website, costs $4200 and spans 70 sessions (at $60/pop) over 16 months.

I don’t care what ethnicity this company is owned by. I do care that 1) they appear to be teaching children to cheat on the TJ admissions test 2) appear to only be willing to teach children of Indian descent and 3) pressured LCPS to maintain their numbers at TJ to preserve their business.

It is no accident that the three Curie facilities in Northern Virginia are in Ashburn, Herndon, and South Riding - the three biggest Indian population centers in the area.

Want to know why Carson, Stone Hill, and Rocky Run send a ton of kids to TJ every year? Look no further. Much like the Astros being able to win a World Series because they knew what pitch was coming, so too are these kids granted access to the holy grail of Northern Virginia desi culture because they know exactly what's coming on a test that is supposed to be unpreppable.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The Quant-Q offers no prep materials whatsoever and guards their exam very closely from the outside. Indeed, they even force people who have seen or proctored the test to sign a non-disclosure agreement that prevents them from revealing any of the questions on the test. The test does change every year, but essentially it appears that they pull from a larger question bank and mix up the order with each new cycle.

But there is nothing preventing students who take the exam from memorizing some or all of the questions and bringing them back to their test prep centers. This is a thing that students at TJ talk openly about doing/having done/benefiting from.

If you're curious as to the impact of prep on the Quant-Q, look at the admissions stats for three years in specific:

Class of 2021 - the year before the QQ was first used - 74.9% Asian
http://www.cinfoshare.org/local-news/TJHSST-Admissions-Statistics-for-Class-of-2021

Class of 2022 - the first year of the QQ - 65.2% Asian
http://thebullelephant.com/tjhsst-admission-stats-class-of-2022/

Class of 2023 - the second year of the QQ - 72.9% Asian
https://www.fcps.edu/news/fcps-tjhsst-offers-admission-494-students

I would think that Korean/Chinese families in this area would be LIVID to learn that the Curie population is almost entirely South Asian/Indian. What they're doing is not technically cheating, but it obviously creates significant imbalances in the admissions process and is a problem that needs to be solved immediately before the upcoming admissions cycle.

I would also have an investigation in the orchestrated pressure by the owner of Curie to cause the LCPS board to change their mind about reducing the number of LCPS students heading to TJ and instead put resources into AET/AOS.

From a Google review:

"Loudoun County was considering removing the option of TJHSST admission to students and over 70 ppl assembled at LCPS school board meetings to speak against it. I was surprised because 50 percent of those people, at least, were Curie students. Then to add to the surprise, Dr. Rao himself spoke during the board meeting. In that sense, he's always make sure each student had every opportunity they could hold to be successful. In the end, I successfully made it into AOS, AET, and TJHSST thanks to Curie and I will be part of TJHSST class of '24 next fall. "

It's not correct to say that they changed their minds. They changed their membership as a result of the 2019 School Board elections. Several candidates successfully defeated incumbents who had voted for the 50-cap. I would imagine that those candidates were probably well-funded by Dr. Rao and others in the same vein. Overturning the 50-cap was basically the first order of business for the new board in January.

Elections have consequences.

Dr. Rao’s business depends on having desperate Indian parents that will pay for access to the test. Of course he does not want to have his business affected.

You sound like this prep company’s competitor. Which prep company do you operate?

Nope! Just someone that values academic honesty.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The Quant-Q offers no prep materials whatsoever and guards their exam very closely from the outside. Indeed, they even force people who have seen or proctored the test to sign a non-disclosure agreement that prevents them from revealing any of the questions on the test. The test does change every year, but essentially it appears that they pull from a larger question bank and mix up the order with each new cycle.

But there is nothing preventing students who take the exam from memorizing some or all of the questions and bringing them back to their test prep centers. This is a thing that students at TJ talk openly about doing/having done/benefiting from.

If you're curious as to the impact of prep on the Quant-Q, look at the admissions stats for three years in specific:

Class of 2021 - the year before the QQ was first used - 74.9% Asian
http://www.cinfoshare.org/local-news/TJHSST-Admissions-Statistics-for-Class-of-2021

Class of 2022 - the first year of the QQ - 65.2% Asian
http://thebullelephant.com/tjhsst-admission-stats-class-of-2022/

Class of 2023 - the second year of the QQ - 72.9% Asian
https://www.fcps.edu/news/fcps-tjhsst-offers-admission-494-students

I would think that Korean/Chinese families in this area would be LIVID to learn that the Curie population is almost entirely South Asian/Indian. What they're doing is not technically cheating, but it obviously creates significant imbalances in the admissions process and is a problem that needs to be solved immediately before the upcoming admissions cycle.

I would also have an investigation in the orchestrated pressure by the owner of Curie to cause the LCPS board to change their mind about reducing the number of LCPS students heading to TJ and instead put resources into AET/AOS.

From a Google review:

"Loudoun County was considering removing the option of TJHSST admission to students and over 70 ppl assembled at LCPS school board meetings to speak against it. I was surprised because 50 percent of those people, at least, were Curie students. Then to add to the surprise, Dr. Rao himself spoke during the board meeting. In that sense, he's always make sure each student had every opportunity they could hold to be successful. In the end, I successfully made it into AOS, AET, and TJHSST thanks to Curie and I will be part of TJHSST class of '24 next fall. "

It's not correct to say that they changed their minds. They changed their membership as a result of the 2019 School Board elections. Several candidates successfully defeated incumbents who had voted for the 50-cap. I would imagine that those candidates were probably well-funded by Dr. Rao and others in the same vein. Overturning the 50-cap was basically the first order of business for the new board in January.

Elections have consequences.

Dr. Rao’s business depends on having desperate Indian parents that will pay for access to the test. Of course he does not want to have his business affected.

You sound like this prep company’s competitor. Which prep company do you operate?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The Quant-Q offers no prep materials whatsoever and guards their exam very closely from the outside. Indeed, they even force people who have seen or proctored the test to sign a non-disclosure agreement that prevents them from revealing any of the questions on the test. The test does change every year, but essentially it appears that they pull from a larger question bank and mix up the order with each new cycle.

But there is nothing preventing students who take the exam from memorizing some or all of the questions and bringing them back to their test prep centers. This is a thing that students at TJ talk openly about doing/having done/benefiting from.

If you're curious as to the impact of prep on the Quant-Q, look at the admissions stats for three years in specific:

Class of 2021 - the year before the QQ was first used - 74.9% Asian
http://www.cinfoshare.org/local-news/TJHSST-Admissions-Statistics-for-Class-of-2021

Class of 2022 - the first year of the QQ - 65.2% Asian
http://thebullelephant.com/tjhsst-admission-stats-class-of-2022/

Class of 2023 - the second year of the QQ - 72.9% Asian
https://www.fcps.edu/news/fcps-tjhsst-offers-admission-494-students

I would think that Korean/Chinese families in this area would be LIVID to learn that the Curie population is almost entirely South Asian/Indian. What they're doing is not technically cheating, but it obviously creates significant imbalances in the admissions process and is a problem that needs to be solved immediately before the upcoming admissions cycle.

I would also have an investigation in the orchestrated pressure by the owner of Curie to cause the LCPS board to change their mind about reducing the number of LCPS students heading to TJ and instead put resources into AET/AOS.

From a Google review:

"Loudoun County was considering removing the option of TJHSST admission to students and over 70 ppl assembled at LCPS school board meetings to speak against it. I was surprised because 50 percent of those people, at least, were Curie students. Then to add to the surprise, Dr. Rao himself spoke during the board meeting. In that sense, he's always make sure each student had every opportunity they could hold to be successful. In the end, I successfully made it into AOS, AET, and TJHSST thanks to Curie and I will be part of TJHSST class of '24 next fall. "

It's not correct to say that they changed their minds. They changed their membership as a result of the 2019 School Board elections. Several candidates successfully defeated incumbents who had voted for the 50-cap. I would imagine that those candidates were probably well-funded by Dr. Rao and others in the same vein. Overturning the 50-cap was basically the first order of business for the new board in January.

Elections have consequences.

Dr. Rao’s business depends on having desperate Indian parents that will pay for access to the test. Of course he does not want to have his business affected.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The Quant-Q offers no prep materials whatsoever and guards their exam very closely from the outside. Indeed, they even force people who have seen or proctored the test to sign a non-disclosure agreement that prevents them from revealing any of the questions on the test. The test does change every year, but essentially it appears that they pull from a larger question bank and mix up the order with each new cycle.

But there is nothing preventing students who take the exam from memorizing some or all of the questions and bringing them back to their test prep centers. This is a thing that students at TJ talk openly about doing/having done/benefiting from.

If you're curious as to the impact of prep on the Quant-Q, look at the admissions stats for three years in specific:

Class of 2021 - the year before the QQ was first used - 74.9% Asian
http://www.cinfoshare.org/local-news/TJHSST-Admissions-Statistics-for-Class-of-2021

Class of 2022 - the first year of the QQ - 65.2% Asian
http://thebullelephant.com/tjhsst-admission-stats-class-of-2022/

Class of 2023 - the second year of the QQ - 72.9% Asian
https://www.fcps.edu/news/fcps-tjhsst-offers-admission-494-students

I would think that Korean/Chinese families in this area would be LIVID to learn that the Curie population is almost entirely South Asian/Indian. What they're doing is not technically cheating, but it obviously creates significant imbalances in the admissions process and is a problem that needs to be solved immediately before the upcoming admissions cycle.

I would also have an investigation in the orchestrated pressure by the owner of Curie to cause the LCPS board to change their mind about reducing the number of LCPS students heading to TJ and instead put resources into AET/AOS.

From a Google review:

"Loudoun County was considering removing the option of TJHSST admission to students and over 70 ppl assembled at LCPS school board meetings to speak against it. I was surprised because 50 percent of those people, at least, were Curie students. Then to add to the surprise, Dr. Rao himself spoke during the board meeting. In that sense, he's always make sure each student had every opportunity they could hold to be successful. In the end, I successfully made it into AOS, AET, and TJHSST thanks to Curie and I will be part of TJHSST class of '24 next fall. "

It's not correct to say that they changed their minds. They changed their membership as a result of the 2019 School Board elections. Several candidates successfully defeated incumbents who had voted for the 50-cap. I would imagine that those candidates were probably well-funded by Dr. Rao and others in the same vein. Overturning the 50-cap was basically the first order of business for the new board in January.

Elections have consequences.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The Quant-Q offers no prep materials whatsoever and guards their exam very closely from the outside. Indeed, they even force people who have seen or proctored the test to sign a non-disclosure agreement that prevents them from revealing any of the questions on the test. The test does change every year, but essentially it appears that they pull from a larger question bank and mix up the order with each new cycle.

But there is nothing preventing students who take the exam from memorizing some or all of the questions and bringing them back to their test prep centers. This is a thing that students at TJ talk openly about doing/having done/benefiting from.

If you're curious as to the impact of prep on the Quant-Q, look at the admissions stats for three years in specific:

Class of 2021 - the year before the QQ was first used - 74.9% Asian
http://www.cinfoshare.org/local-news/TJHSST-Admissions-Statistics-for-Class-of-2021

Class of 2022 - the first year of the QQ - 65.2% Asian
http://thebullelephant.com/tjhsst-admission-stats-class-of-2022/

Class of 2023 - the second year of the QQ - 72.9% Asian
https://www.fcps.edu/news/fcps-tjhsst-offers-admission-494-students

I would think that Korean/Chinese families in this area would be LIVID to learn that the Curie population is almost entirely South Asian/Indian. What they're doing is not technically cheating, but it obviously creates significant imbalances in the admissions process and is a problem that needs to be solved immediately before the upcoming admissions cycle.

I would also have an investigation in the orchestrated pressure by the owner of Curie to cause the LCPS board to change their mind about reducing the number of LCPS students heading to TJ and instead put resources into AET/AOS.

From a Google review:

"Loudoun County was considering removing the option of TJHSST admission to students and over 70 ppl assembled at LCPS school board meetings to speak against it. I was surprised because 50 percent of those people, at least, were Curie students. Then to add to the surprise, Dr. Rao himself spoke during the board meeting. In that sense, he's always make sure each student had every opportunity they could hold to be successful. In the end, I successfully made it into AOS, AET, and TJHSST thanks to Curie and I will be part of TJHSST class of '24 next fall. "

It's not correct to say that they changed their minds. They changed their membership as a result of the 2019 School Board elections. Several candidates successfully defeated incumbents who had voted for the 50-cap. I would imagine that those candidates were probably well-funded by Dr. Rao and others in the same vein. Overturning the 50-cap was basically the first order of business for the new board in January.

Anonymous wrote:The Quant-Q offers no prep materials whatsoever and guards their exam very closely from the outside. Indeed, they even force people who have seen or proctored the test to sign a non-disclosure agreement that prevents them from revealing any of the questions on the test. The test does change every year, but essentially it appears that they pull from a larger question bank and mix up the order with each new cycle.

But there is nothing preventing students who take the exam from memorizing some or all of the questions and bringing them back to their test prep centers. This is a thing that students at TJ talk openly about doing/having done/benefiting from.

If you're curious as to the impact of prep on the Quant-Q, look at the admissions stats for three years in specific:

Class of 2021 - the year before the QQ was first used - 74.9% Asian
http://www.cinfoshare.org/local-news/TJHSST-Admissions-Statistics-for-Class-of-2021

Class of 2022 - the first year of the QQ - 65.2% Asian
http://thebullelephant.com/tjhsst-admission-stats-class-of-2022/

Class of 2023 - the second year of the QQ - 72.9% Asian
https://www.fcps.edu/news/fcps-tjhsst-offers-admission-494-students

I would think that Korean/Chinese families in this area would be LIVID to learn that the Curie population is almost entirely South Asian/Indian. What they're doing is not technically cheating, but it obviously creates significant imbalances in the admissions process and is a problem that needs to be solved immediately before the upcoming admissions cycle.

I would also have an investigation in the orchestrated pressure by the owner of Curie to cause the LCPS board to change their mind about reducing the number of LCPS students heading to TJ and instead put resources into AET/AOS.

From a Google review:

"Loudoun County was considering removing the option of TJHSST admission to students and over 70 ppl assembled at LCPS school board meetings to speak against it. I was surprised because 50 percent of those people, at least, were Curie students. Then to add to the surprise, Dr. Rao himself spoke during the board meeting. In that sense, he's always make sure each student had every opportunity they could hold to be successful. In the end, I successfully made it into AOS, AET, and TJHSST thanks to Curie and I will be part of TJHSST class of '24 next fall. "

The Quant-Q offers no prep materials whatsoever and guards their exam very closely from the outside. Indeed, they even force people who have seen or proctored the test to sign a non-disclosure agreement that prevents them from revealing any of the questions on the test. The test does change every year, but essentially it appears that they pull from a larger question bank and mix up the order with each new cycle.

But there is nothing preventing students who take the exam from memorizing some or all of the questions and bringing them back to their test prep centers. This is a thing that students at TJ talk openly about doing/having done/benefiting from.

If you're curious as to the impact of prep on the Quant-Q, look at the admissions stats for three years in specific:

Class of 2021 - the year before the QQ was first used - 74.9% Asian
http://www.cinfoshare.org/local-news/TJHSST-Admissions-Statistics-for-Class-of-2021

Class of 2022 - the first year of the QQ - 65.2% Asian
http://thebullelephant.com/tjhsst-admission-stats-class-of-2022/

Class of 2023 - the second year of the QQ - 72.9% Asian
https://www.fcps.edu/news/fcps-tjhsst-offers-admission-494-students

I would think that Korean/Chinese families in this area would be LIVID to learn that the Curie population is almost entirely South Asian/Indian. What they're doing is not technically cheating, but it obviously creates significant imbalances in the admissions process and is a problem that needs to be solved immediately before the upcoming admissions cycle.

15:47 PP again.
Someone mentioned Math Kangaroo and the fact that it was completely on line and using the honor system this year. I was curious and looked up the stats, mostly to see whether people would cheat on a very low stakes, kiddie math contest. Previous years, a small handful of kids got perfect scores. This year, at least 10 times as many kids got perfect scores, so either the test was exceptionally easy, or people in fact are willing to cheat on tests like Math Kangaroo. There wasn't an overabundance of Indian or East Asian or white-European names on the perfect score list, so the cheating seems to be spread around for people of all colors.

It's simple, really. If your test is formulaic or follows any discernible pattern, people will crack the code and figure out ways to prep for what was supposed to be a novel test. Likewise, if the test creators are lazy and re-use questions, then they're aiding those who prepare. None of this is cheating, but it's going to be advantageous to those with the means to prep.

Also, people of all colors will cheat if they are given the opportunity and think they'll get away with it.

The best solution for both TJ and AAP would be to make up a completely new test every single year that isn't based on some specific type of problem or style of question. If one year, the questions are ACT-like, the next year, they're more like logic puzzles, the next year, more like the SAT, the following year, more like AMC math competitions and so on, it would be much harder for people to game the system. But, this would take a ton of effort.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From the other threads, there appears to be some disagreement over in the ethics of prepping. However, there appears to be a prep place with an incredibly high TJ placement success rate that may have crossed the line.

To see for yourself, go to the TJ Vents FB Page. Find the post from July 11th. Read the comments. The student in the Vent and the students in the comments section are talking about a prep place that charges $4,000 and gives the students the test ahead of time. One student in the comments stated that the Quant Q for the class of 2023 was identical to the Quant Q for the class of 2022. It’s clear that they are talking about the Curie Learning Center (“curie” one student states.)

I went to find out more about this place. Apparently Curie Learning Center posted on their FB page on 8/17 that they had 133 students admitted to TJ. And posted the names so unlikely they are making it up. (Also posted AOS/AET names/numbers.)

Wow. So there were 133 students admitted this year that prepped at a place that multiple current students say had a copy of at least one section of the test in prior years.

Just how does one test prep place account for over 25% of the TJHSST class of 2024 admissions? (Are they possibly that good at prep?)

Maybe they are bribing the right people like Rick Singer did for wealthy white parents.

Wow.. Do you honestly believe that TJ leaked the test ahead of time to one prep center run by an asian? Asian kids represent close to or over 50% of TJ admissions each year and don't you think school/teachers might have noticed it if wrong kids get admitted each year who are unable to compete with others? If the school hasn't noticed, may be you can bring this up to their attention complaining TJ leaked the test.

As others said, the teachers who prepare the test are lazy and might have repeated the questions from previous years. This happens all the time even at universities and well prepared kids may sometimes have an unfair advantage - it is possible that this center may be preparing the kids with lots of practice tests more than any other place. It is natural for kids (who don't know any better) to assume this as unfair or cheating. The best way to solve this, TJ should be careful in creating the tests with unique and non-repeated questions that tests kids natural and creative abilities. Blaming the kids and prep center is not the solution and diluting the TJ admission process to discourage kids based on their race or school they go to is a bad idea. Lottery system is obviously the worst solution and it is no different from a charter school. We might as well kill the magnet program and just improve all the high schools equally with localized focus on AP courses, encourage kids, provide additional assistance etc - I am all for it!