Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You’re right, OP. I’m considering pelvic reconstructive surgery to fix damage from vaginal birth and am looking at 25-50K out of pocket for surgery plus at least a month or two off from work. There are also significant lifting/lifetime activity restrictions with this surgery which mean I won’t be able to lift my kids after so I’m choosing to wait until they’ve grown up more and no longer need to be carried. Realistically I will have to wait 5-10 years to ensure a greater chance of success. The surgical failure rate is also quite high (failure rate as high as 50 percent - not exactly great odds) and I can’t afford to do this multiple times. As it is it’s something I will have to save for for many years. Most of the women in my online support groups who do this surgery I know say it takes at least a year to fully recover.

I cheer for you to have a successful one! I am becoming increasingly of the opinion that elective c-sections should be de-stigmatized the same way abortions were, the same way gender change is becoming, the same way plastic surgery is becoming. Nobody but the individual has the right to define what constitutes suffering for themselves. Someone is devastated to have an abortion and someone is devastated to have gotten pregnant. Someone is terrified of c-sections and someone is terrified or vaginal delivery. It takes just a drop of kindness and empathy to accept that another person's experience may be vastly different from your own. Rant over. Best of luck with the surgery! (I googled vaginoplasty and it ranges around $9000 for that alone. Maybe you can start with whichever part is most important to you first and then see from there? Just an idea..)

I feel the same way, OP and had a similar thread awhile ago you may find worth checking out:

https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/872742.page

Anonymous wrote:You’re right, OP. I’m considering pelvic reconstructive surgery to fix damage from vaginal birth and am looking at 25-50K out of pocket for surgery plus at least a month or two off from work. There are also significant lifting/lifetime activity restrictions with this surgery which mean I won’t be able to lift my kids after so I’m choosing to wait until they’ve grown up more and no longer need to be carried. Realistically I will have to wait 5-10 years to ensure a greater chance of success. The surgical failure rate is also quite high (failure rate as high as 50 percent - not exactly great odds) and I can’t afford to do this multiple times. As it is it’s something I will have to save for for many years. Most of the women in my online support groups who do this surgery I know say it takes at least a year to fully recover.

I cheer for you to have a successful one! I am becoming increasingly of the opinion that elective c-sections should be de-stigmatized the same way abortions were, the same way gender change is becoming, the same way plastic surgery is becoming. Nobody but the individual has the right to define what constitutes suffering for themselves. Someone is devastated to have an abortion and someone is devastated to have gotten pregnant. Someone is terrified of c-sections and someone is terrified or vaginal delivery. It takes just a drop of kindness and empathy to accept that another person's experience may be vastly different from your own. Rant over. Best of luck with the surgery! (I googled vaginoplasty and it ranges around $9000 for that alone. Maybe you can start with whichever part is most important to you first and then see from there? Just an idea..)

You’re right, OP. I’m considering pelvic reconstructive surgery to fix damage from vaginal birth and am looking at 25-50K out of pocket for surgery plus at least a month or two off from work. There are also significant lifting/lifetime activity restrictions with this surgery which mean I won’t be able to lift my kids after so I’m choosing to wait until they’ve grown up more and no longer need to be carried. Realistically I will have to wait 5-10 years to ensure a greater chance of success. The surgical failure rate is also quite high (failure rate as high as 50 percent - not exactly great odds) and I can’t afford to do this multiple times. As it is it’s something I will have to save for for many years. Most of the women in my online support groups who do this surgery I know say it takes at least a year to fully recover.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I had a difficult but ultimately fine birth for my 1st.

My OB, who was known to be rather crunchy, straight up offered me a csection if I wanted one for my 2nd. Like she said, hey, if you want to do this it’s totally valid and I support you 100%.

It turned out it’s not that she’s crunchy, she’s just super flexible and all about doing whatever you want, and a lot of her clients wanted crunchy things.

I ended up not doing the C but I loved that she was so completely on board and supportive of me doing whatever I wanted.

who is this crunchy, flexible, choice-friendly OB? I would love to switch to her practice.

I’m the PP, sorry she’s in Nebraska

That's a shame. My friend had an elective c-section in Connecticut, which is a bit closer to me.

I resolved that I won't stop without exhausting my options.

To everyone here who judges my choices - I hope you never get your experience/feelings/priorities invalidated. Feeling how you do and choosing what's good for you is your human right and never let anyone put you down for having experiences different that the rest.

Food for thought: c-section carries major surgery risk.
traumatic vaginal birth + vaginal reconstruction surgery + uterine prolapse surgery + surgery to fix incontinence = risk of all the mentioned surgeries + unnecessary suffering (physical and psychological during delivery and in the subsequent surgeries) and financially, it probably adds up to a similar amount.

If there is a way to avoid some unnecessary suffering (at least emotional suffering + all the negative consequences pelvic damage has on a woman's esteem and sense of self), why not choose that route? We don't need to be as cruel to each other as nature is to us. That's my philosophy. You have the right to think differently.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I had a difficult but ultimately fine birth for my 1st.

My OB, who was known to be rather crunchy, straight up offered me a csection if I wanted one for my 2nd. Like she said, hey, if you want to do this it’s totally valid and I support you 100%.

It turned out it’s not that she’s crunchy, she’s just super flexible and all about doing whatever you want, and a lot of her clients wanted crunchy things.

I ended up not doing the C but I loved that she was so completely on board and supportive of me doing whatever I wanted.

who is this crunchy, flexible, choice-friendly OB? I would love to switch to her practice.

I’m the PP, sorry she’s in Nebraska

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I fully support your decision to deliver how you want, your body your choice. But lol at "extra suffering". Trust me the c-section is not the easy way out. That's why they want to discourage it, not because they want you to suffer.

They discourage it because it carries a higher risk of life threatening complications - severe hemorrhage, blood clots, surgical error, and risks to subsequent pregnancies like increased risk of infertility and stillbirth. Hopefully her OB will discuss these with her first.

The risk is different for emergency c section after labor and planned.

No, I'm sorry, but most of the risks listed above are not lower for scheduled repeat c-sections. Surgical error is lower - 15% for unplanned vs. 6% for planned.

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2764595

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(18)31930-5/fulltext

https://www.consumerwatchdog.org/patient-safety/kira-johnson-cedars-sinai-los-angeles

Anonymous wrote:I had a difficult but ultimately fine birth for my 1st.

My OB, who was known to be rather crunchy, straight up offered me a csection if I wanted one for my 2nd. Like she said, hey, if you want to do this it’s totally valid and I support you 100%.

It turned out it’s not that she’s crunchy, she’s just super flexible and all about doing whatever you want, and a lot of her clients wanted crunchy things.

I ended up not doing the C but I loved that she was so completely on board and supportive of me doing whatever I wanted.

who is this crunchy, flexible, choice-friendly OB? I would love to switch to her practice.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I fully support your decision to deliver how you want, your body your choice. But lol at "extra suffering". Trust me the c-section is not the easy way out. That's why they want to discourage it, not because they want you to suffer.

They discourage it because it carries a higher risk of life threatening complications - severe hemorrhage, blood clots, surgical error, and risks to subsequent pregnancies like increased risk of infertility and stillbirth. Hopefully her OB will discuss these with her first.

The risk is different for emergency c section after labor and planned.

Anonymous wrote:I fully support your decision to deliver how you want, your body your choice. But lol at "extra suffering". Trust me the c-section is not the easy way out. That's why they want to discourage it, not because they want you to suffer.

They discourage it because it carries a higher risk of life threatening complications - severe hemorrhage, blood clots, surgical error, and risks to subsequent pregnancies like increased risk of infertility and stillbirth. Hopefully her OB will discuss these with her first.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I fully support your decision to deliver how you want, your body your choice. But lol at "extra suffering". Trust me the c-section is not the easy way out. That's why they want to discourage it, not because they want you to suffer.

I’ve had babies both ways, and even with a long, difficult delivery I’d take the recovery for that one 100 times over the c section. In my experience you can have the pain of delivery and then it’s done or the pain of recovering from abdominal surgery while caring for a newborn. You’re just kicking the “extra suffering” can down the road.

I had babies both ways too. I still couldn’t sit down at my son’s bris (8 days) after a vaginal delivery. I traveled 1.5 hrs each way on public transportation, staircases and all 6 days after the c-section for my second one. C-section is a much easier recovery for me.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I had a c-section by request. I was really scared to ask my OB but she didn't blink. I am a Kaiser patient so it's not like I could shop around much for doctors. She did have me see a different OB in the practice to just document that it was my request and not her pushing it.

There were no issues and nobody gave me a hard time at any stage. I did not pay more, either.

Of course not, because you are with Kaiser. But Kaiser had to absorb that 100K + surgery so I imagine there is more to the story.

Meh, Kaiser could have declined to cover it entirely as an elective surgery. [b]But it's not really more expensive to have a one hour surgery than to have a 24 hour labor with epidural. The Kaiser OB and anesthetist are there either eay.

There have been some interesting papers suggesting that c-sections save money for the insurer overall when you factor in birth injuries and pelvic floor damage that the insurer also ends up paying for. But nobody wants to look at that too closely because it immediately conjures the image of mandatory c-sections for cost efficiency.

Yes it is - between $10k and 25k depending on local toon and provider. Google it. Kaiser will only ageee to this is there is a reason: high blood pressure, elderly primagravida, severe emotional issues, etc

I don't have to Google it, because I called and got costs from my local hospital when I was worried Kaiser wouldn't pay (this was before I asked my OB). You can call and get the rate they charge for self-insured people. It just doesn't cost that much -- the number you see on your Blue Cross statement bears no relation to the actual cost of a medical procedure.

I was 33 and in perfect health, and nobody said boo about my choice.

- PP who actually did have a c-section by request at Kaiser.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I had a c-section by request. I was really scared to ask my OB but she didn't blink. I am a Kaiser patient so it's not like I could shop around much for doctors. She did have me see a different OB in the practice to just document that it was my request and not her pushing it.

There were no issues and nobody gave me a hard time at any stage. I did not pay more, either.

Of course not, because you are with Kaiser. But Kaiser had to absorb that 100K + surgery so I imagine there is more to the story.

Meh, Kaiser could have declined to cover it entirely as an elective surgery. [b]But it's not really more expensive to have a one hour surgery than to have a 24 hour labor with epidural. The Kaiser OB and anesthetist are there either eay.

There have been some interesting papers suggesting that c-sections save money for the insurer overall when you factor in birth injuries and pelvic floor damage that the insurer also ends up paying for. But nobody wants to look at that too closely because it immediately conjures the image of mandatory c-sections for cost efficiency.

Yes it is - between $10k and 25k depending on local toon and provider. Google it. Kaiser will only ageee to this is there is a reason: high blood pressure, elderly primagravida, severe emotional issues, etc

OP, it's not unwise to choose a c-section over vaginal delivery. Each way has risks.

This article from 2017 went pretty in-depth into the flaws in believing that vaginal birth is always better.

https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2017/01/childbirth-injuries-prolapse-cesarean-section-natural-childbirth/

You'll be at a much lower risk of incontinence in your middle and elderly years, and at a much lower risk of minor AND serious pelvic injury, as well as loss of sexual satisfaction.

You'll be at a higher risk of some really dangerous stuff -- infections and blood clots (although blood clots are also a risk for any pregnant woman AND any woman delivering vaginally. Whee, it's great to be a woman!).

In short, there's no clear right path here, and if your gut is saying C-section, then find an OB who respects that. They are DEFINITELY out there. Many of them opted for c-sections themselves.

I had two planned c-sections and didn’t find the recovery bad at all. My doctor had no problem scheduling them. I have many friends who also had planned c’s. I don’t think you’ll have an issue finding a doctor willing to do this.

For all those saying how hard a c-section recovery is, it’s a different game if you’ve been in labor for hours. If you go straight to the c, it’s not that bad.

I had a difficult but ultimately fine birth for my 1st.

My OB, who was known to be rather crunchy, straight up offered me a csection if I wanted one for my 2nd. Like she said, hey, if you want to do this it’s totally valid and I support you 100%.

It turned out it’s not that she’s crunchy, she’s just super flexible and all about doing whatever you want, and a lot of her clients wanted crunchy things.

I ended up not doing the C but I loved that she was so completely on board and supportive of me doing whatever I wanted.