Anonymous wrote:The problem is that in the non-AAP classes there are kids that are just barely existing. There are kids that the teachers can barely control. AAP is just a way to have what used to be called an actual classroom 40 years ago. I have no idea how we have progressed to students running wild in class, making noise, distractions, disobeying the teacher, etc. In my older son's 2nd grade class right before he split into level IV, there was a girl who would just sit and curse all day and scream at the teacher... IN SECOND GRADE! In my first grader's class this year there was a kid who literally did not participate in the class. He spent the entire running back and forth in the back of the room, throwing paper airplanes, hitting kids, and spitting on the teacher. Jesus christ.

just remember that if you choose a school district to avoid that, you're racist

The problem is that in the non-AAP classes there are kids that are just barely existing. There are kids that the teachers can barely control. AAP is just a way to have what used to be called an actual classroom 40 years ago. I have no idea how we have progressed to students running wild in class, making noise, distractions, disobeying the teacher, etc. In my older son's 2nd grade class right before he split into level IV, there was a girl who would just sit and curse all day and scream at the teacher... IN SECOND GRADE! In my first grader's class this year there was a kid who literally did not participate in the class. He spent the entire running back and forth in the back of the room, throwing paper airplanes, hitting kids, and spitting on the teacher. Jesus christ.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
It is not a caste system. It is a system that meets the needs of kids where they are and with what they require.

unless the kid is gen ed relatively smart and hard working, but not gifted. Those kids get no extra resources because they're succeeding (so no interventions) and they don't test into aap (so no need for more pull outs or centers). They get can get straight 4s, but nothing is quite as meaningless as an elementary school report card and sit in class bored as hell

It kind of is a caste system, because the bottom half of the kids in AAP are completely indistinguishable from the top 2-3 kids per classroom left in gen ed, who either got rejected or had parents who didn't understand that they should parent refer. It's absurd to say that Larla, who is moderately advanced and has test scores in the low 120s but got into AAP needs a completely different educational environment than Carla, who also is moderately advanced and had test scores in the low 120s, but didn't get in.

I wish they had firmer cutoffs. It's much easier to accept that if the cutoff is 130 and your kid got 129, then your kid missed the cutoff. It's much more complicated when your kid has the same or better stats than kids who got in, and you have no idea why your kid wasn't picked. I really feel for the kids with the 140+ WISC scores, because they flat out need AAP more than 99% of the kids who got in.

and that's why they board can probably mess with it with little fear of voter revolt- the only people who will really go to bat supporting AAP are those with kids in AAP or those with kids in K-2 hoping to get them into AAP, everyone else is going to be indifferent or hostile to it

You sound clueless. Everyone in Fairfax County and the entire DMV knows about the program and it definitely influences house buying choices.

Ask your neighbors or co-workers or friends in Virginia, DC, MD.

everyone knows about TJ and assumes schools have some sort of gifted program- no one knows or cares about the specifics unless they have kids in it

This is true. The amount of total misinformation on this board about TJ is staggering, even from folks who have kids there.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
It is not a caste system. It is a system that meets the needs of kids where they are and with what they require.

unless the kid is gen ed relatively smart and hard working, but not gifted. Those kids get no extra resources because they're succeeding (so no interventions) and they don't test into aap (so no need for more pull outs or centers). They get can get straight 4s, but nothing is quite as meaningless as an elementary school report card and sit in class bored as hell

It kind of is a caste system, because the bottom half of the kids in AAP are completely indistinguishable from the top 2-3 kids per classroom left in gen ed, who either got rejected or had parents who didn't understand that they should parent refer. It's absurd to say that Larla, who is moderately advanced and has test scores in the low 120s but got into AAP needs a completely different educational environment than Carla, who also is moderately advanced and had test scores in the low 120s, but didn't get in.

I wish they had firmer cutoffs. It's much easier to accept that if the cutoff is 130 and your kid got 129, then your kid missed the cutoff. It's much more complicated when your kid has the same or better stats than kids who got in, and you have no idea why your kid wasn't picked. I really feel for the kids with the 140+ WISC scores, because they flat out need AAP more than 99% of the kids who got in.

and that's why they board can probably mess with it with little fear of voter revolt- the only people who will really go to bat supporting AAP are those with kids in AAP or those with kids in K-2 hoping to get them into AAP, everyone else is going to be indifferent or hostile to it

You sound clueless. Everyone in Fairfax County and the entire DMV knows about the program and it definitely influences house buying choices.

Ask your neighbors or co-workers or friends in Virginia, DC, MD.

everyone knows about TJ and assumes schools have some sort of gifted program- no one knows or cares about the specifics unless they have kids in it

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
It is not a caste system. It is a system that meets the needs of kids where they are and with what they require.

unless the kid is gen ed relatively smart and hard working, but not gifted. Those kids get no extra resources because they're succeeding (so no interventions) and they don't test into aap (so no need for more pull outs or centers). They get can get straight 4s, but nothing is quite as meaningless as an elementary school report card and sit in class bored as hell

It kind of is a caste system, because the bottom half of the kids in AAP are completely indistinguishable from the top 2-3 kids per classroom left in gen ed, who either got rejected or had parents who didn't understand that they should parent refer. It's absurd to say that Larla, who is moderately advanced and has test scores in the low 120s but got into AAP needs a completely different educational environment than Carla, who also is moderately advanced and had test scores in the low 120s, but didn't get in.

I wish they had firmer cutoffs. It's much easier to accept that if the cutoff is 130 and your kid got 129, then your kid missed the cutoff. It's much more complicated when your kid has the same or better stats than kids who got in, and you have no idea why your kid wasn't picked. I really feel for the kids with the 140+ WISC scores, because they flat out need AAP more than 99% of the kids who got in.

and that's why they board can probably mess with it with little fear of voter revolt- the only people who will really go to bat supporting AAP are those with kids in AAP or those with kids in K-2 hoping to get them into AAP, everyone else is going to be indifferent or hostile to it

You sound clueless. Everyone in Fairfax County and the entire DMV knows about the program and it definitely influences house buying choices.

Ask your neighbors or co-workers or friends in Virginia, DC, MD.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
It is not a caste system. It is a system that meets the needs of kids where they are and with what they require.

unless the kid is gen ed relatively smart and hard working, but not gifted. Those kids get no extra resources because they're succeeding (so no interventions) and they don't test into aap (so no need for more pull outs or centers). They get can get straight 4s, but nothing is quite as meaningless as an elementary school report card and sit in class bored as hell

It kind of is a caste system, because the bottom half of the kids in AAP are completely indistinguishable from the top 2-3 kids per classroom left in gen ed, who either got rejected or had parents who didn't understand that they should parent refer. It's absurd to say that Larla, who is moderately advanced and has test scores in the low 120s but got into AAP needs a completely different educational environment than Carla, who also is moderately advanced and had test scores in the low 120s, but didn't get in.

I wish they had firmer cutoffs. It's much easier to accept that if the cutoff is 130 and your kid got 129, then your kid missed the cutoff. It's much more complicated when your kid has the same or better stats than kids who got in, and you have no idea why your kid wasn't picked. I really feel for the kids with the 140+ WISC scores, because they flat out need AAP more than 99% of the kids who got in.

and that's why they board can probably mess with it with little fear of voter revolt- the only people who will really go to bat supporting AAP are those with kids in AAP or those with kids in K-2 hoping to get them into AAP, everyone else is going to be indifferent or hostile to it

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
It is not a caste system. It is a system that meets the needs of kids where they are and with what they require.

unless the kid is gen ed relatively smart and hard working, but not gifted. Those kids get no extra resources because they're succeeding (so no interventions) and they don't test into aap (so no need for more pull outs or centers). They get can get straight 4s, but nothing is quite as meaningless as an elementary school report card and sit in class bored as hell

It kind of is a caste system, because the bottom half of the kids in AAP are completely indistinguishable from the top 2-3 kids per classroom left in gen ed, who either got rejected or had parents who didn't understand that they should parent refer. It's absurd to say that Larla, who is moderately advanced and has test scores in the low 120s but got into AAP needs a completely different educational environment than Carla, who also is moderately advanced and had test scores in the low 120s, but didn't get in.

I wish they had firmer cutoffs. It's much easier to accept that if the cutoff is 130 and your kid got 129, then your kid missed the cutoff. It's much more complicated when your kid has the same or better stats than kids who got in, and you have no idea why your kid wasn't picked. I really feel for the kids with the 140+ WISC scores, because they flat out need AAP more than 99% of the kids who got in.

This.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
It is not a caste system. It is a system that meets the needs of kids where they are and with what they require.

unless the kid is gen ed relatively smart and hard working, but not gifted. Those kids get no extra resources because they're succeeding (so no interventions) and they don't test into aap (so no need for more pull outs or centers). They get can get straight 4s, but nothing is quite as meaningless as an elementary school report card and sit in class bored as hell

It kind of is a caste system, because the bottom half of the kids in AAP are completely indistinguishable from the top 2-3 kids per classroom left in gen ed, who either got rejected or had parents who didn't understand that they should parent refer. It's absurd to say that Larla, who is moderately advanced and has test scores in the low 120s but got into AAP needs a completely different educational environment than Carla, who also is moderately advanced and had test scores in the low 120s, but didn't get in.

I wish they had firmer cutoffs. It's much easier to accept that if the cutoff is 130 and your kid got 129, then your kid missed the cutoff. It's much more complicated when your kid has the same or better stats than kids who got in, and you have no idea why your kid wasn't picked. I really feel for the kids with the 140+ WISC scores, because they flat out need AAP more than 99% of the kids who got in.

Anonymous wrote:
It is not a caste system. It is a system that meets the needs of kids where they are and with what they require.

unless the kid is gen ed relatively smart and hard working, but not gifted. Those kids get no extra resources because they're succeeding (so no interventions) and they don't test into aap (so no need for more pull outs or centers). They get can get straight 4s, but nothing is quite as meaningless as an elementary school report card and sit in class bored as hell

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One small example from my kid at a LLIV: the AAP classroom taught the kids to write in cursive in 3rd-4th grades, even though it isn't technically required. The GenEd classrooms of the same grade were still focused on basic hand lettering and typing. The AAP teachers just seem to have extra time after getting through the basic curriculum to spend a little time on "extras" like this.

The AAP classroom also held kids to a much higher standard for neatness of written/typed work.

Everyone should be held to these standards not just one "special" subset. It's really horrific how FCPS basically has instilled a caste system into elementary and middle schools.

That too...SO early on.

It is not a caste system. People might mumble and complain about the kids who need pull outs for learning disabilities or delays but we all get it. we want to help kids get to the best place that they can be. We specialists to work with kids who are struggling for a reason. The main gripe I hear from parents in ES about this help is that it is expensive but people seem to intuitively understand that we should be helping all kids succeed.

Very bright kids, to include gifted kids, need specialized instruction as well in order to help them achieve their potential. The education curriculum has specialized classes that discuss kids with special needs and gifted kids in the same class because both groups need to receive material at a level that is appropriate to their needs. AAP is an attempt to meet those kids needs.

The issue with AAP is that FCPS can't decide what it is supposed to be. Should be a program for the demonstrably gifted, with high WISC scores or should be a program for bright kids who are high achieving in the general education classroom. Realistically speaking, both groups of kids need more than they are getting in the gen ed classroom, but their needs are still different.

I was a kid in resource support with learning disabilities, and later identified ADHD. I struggled with grade level math and my grammar still sucks. Foreign languages were a massive struggle for me. My DS is the exact opposite. He picks up concepts quickly, loves math puzzles and games, is a bookworm (ok so that was me as a kid), watches science shows on YouTube for fun, and loves building with anything he can get his hands on. He needs far more than what he can get in the regular classroom. We deferred moving to a center and Level IV placement because he loves his foreign language immersion program and he will be receiving Advanced Math. We will see how this year goes but we might move him in fourth grade.

We both needed different types of services to address our learning needs.

I wish FCPS would figure out AAP so that it works. I think every school should have Level IV in it. If the Local Level IV is not meeting the kids need, then use the centers for the kids who need more advanced work then in the local level IV. The issue that some people will have is that most schools will have one class for Level IV kids per grade, so no real room for changes in peers like at a center. The Pro would be that there would be a system in place to meet the needs of all kids and we could cut down on bussing costs.

It is not a caste system. It is a system that meets the needs of kids where they are and with what they require.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One small example from my kid at a LLIV: the AAP classroom taught the kids to write in cursive in 3rd-4th grades, even though it isn't technically required. The GenEd classrooms of the same grade were still focused on basic hand lettering and typing. The AAP teachers just seem to have extra time after getting through the basic curriculum to spend a little time on "extras" like this.

The AAP classroom also held kids to a much higher standard for neatness of written/typed work.

Everyone should be held to these standards not just one "special" subset. It's really horrific how FCPS basically has instilled a caste system into elementary and middle schools.

That too...SO early on.

Anonymous wrote:One small example from my kid at a LLIV: the AAP classroom taught the kids to write in cursive in 3rd-4th grades, even though it isn't technically required. The GenEd classrooms of the same grade were still focused on basic hand lettering and typing. The AAP teachers just seem to have extra time after getting through the basic curriculum to spend a little time on "extras" like this.

The AAP classroom also held kids to a much higher standard for neatness of written/typed work.

Everyone should be held to these standards not just one "special" subset. It's really horrific how FCPS basically has instilled a caste system into elementary and middle schools.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am an AAP teacher who also taught gen ed in the same grade level. Honestly my experiences as a teacher have been night and day. I feel I can do so much more in AAP and got my creativity back as a teacher. They content is the same but the way it is taught is different. There is a lot more critical thinking and a lot more flexibility in the schedule to teach grammar, word study and do fun projects. All of the kids are reading on or above grade level so it is easy to do book clubs. I honestly love it!

This was my experience too as an AAP teacher! I was absolutely able to use best practices and do really creative lessons/group work. My kids were motivated, polite, and on the whole well behaved. Parents were very involved. It was fun!

Don't you think this is incredibly unfair to bright kids in a gen ed classroom? My child is motivated, polite, very well behaved, but doesn't test well and is a little bit behind grade level in reading (but not in comprehension), so she's not going to get into LLIV even though I know she would thrive in this type of classroom and because she's quiet and shy, she gets ignored in GenEd and it's going to set her behind everyone. AAP is really unfair to children like her who also deserve the best but don't get it because of some stupid test and biased teachers such as yourselves.

Anonymous wrote:The AAP cohort is better.

Define better.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My oldest did advanced math and LIII pull outs at the base school. My next child did AAP at the center. I didn't see much of a difference between anything they did academically. The biggest difference is that my oldest child's classroom was a bit rougher, had more behavior issues, and had a decent number of ESOL students, whereas my AAP child didn't have any of that. Both kids had a tremendous amount of free time and read a lot of books during the school day.

This is why parents push for AAP. They don't want their kids distracted by these elements in the classroom. Fairfax had so many ESOL kids dumped in the schools that parents with high performing students need an outlet where that wont hinder their kid's learning experience.

Or one could argue that children in a gen ed classroom are getting a slice of real life where they won't be coddled, and it's beneficial for them to be exposed to children from different socioeconomic and cultural backgrounds from their own. That is also learning and growth.