Anonymous
Post 07/14/2020 19:48     Subject: Can professors force students to attend class in person?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Just call her doctor and get a note saying she has compromised immunity and must be excused from in-person classes. Its like getting a note from the eye doctor to get out of swim in gym.

And people can ABSOLUTELY focus with a mask on for two hours. How the f*ck do you think surgeons perform surgery?


You don't lie about a health situation that doesn't exist. You take it at a different school or wait.


No doctor is going to say she is immune suppressed.
Anonymous
Post 07/14/2020 19:42     Subject: Can professors force students to attend class in person?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:My dd signed up for a class that is foundational to her learning path. The school was unclear about the mode of instruction till the last minute. Now the professor has made it mandatory that all students attend in person, with consequences if they don’t. The state I am in is a raging COVID hotspot and as a parent I am upset at this decision. I do not want my DD to face the risk of sitting in class. It’s a 2 hr class to boot and I can’t fathom how she can focus with a mask on her face, for that long. What is a logical way to address this with the school, without losing my mind?


I feel badly for anyone who spent time sympathizing with this OP. You’ve been had. This is an absolute troll post.



PP, unless you cite a reason why this situation could never happen, ever, anywhere....You're the troll.
Anonymous
Post 07/14/2020 19:33     Subject: Can professors force students to attend class in person?
Anonymous wrote:My dd signed up for a class that is foundational to her learning path. The school was unclear about the mode of instruction till the last minute. Now the professor has made it mandatory that all students attend in person, with consequences if they don’t. The state I am in is a raging COVID hotspot and as a parent I am upset at this decision. I do not want my DD to face the risk of sitting in class. It’s a 2 hr class to boot and I can’t fathom how she can focus with a mask on her face, for that long. What is a logical way to address this with the school, without losing my mind?


I feel badly for anyone who spent time sympathizing with this OP. You’ve been had. This is an absolute troll post.

Anonymous
Post 07/14/2020 14:11     Subject: Can professors force students to attend class in person?
OP: no one can force her to take this course right now. However, in college when you forgo that opportunity, you delay your graduation.

The End.
Anonymous
Post 07/14/2020 13:09     Subject: Re:Can professors force students to attend class in person?
Agree with many previous posters.

1. Reach out to prof and make sure that what they are hearing is what is meant.

2. Contact department head/chair of the department where the class is being taught.

3. If situation is not resolved, contact dean of students (or similar position). If no dean of students exists for the college, there is probably a head for the (school/college/whatever they use to section up departments) or dean of that college.

The university I work at is being very strict we must teach, in-person, at least once per week. They are at least allowing us to have a larger space or change our schedule around so that students aren't packed like sardines in the room. However, they have also said that we need to be prepared to accommodate any student who isn't comfortable coming to class or who is in quarantine.

There are some classes (labs, nursing, anatomy) where in-person is really important. There are also issues right now because the federal government is kicking online-only foreign students out of the country.

Finally, if your student has any sort of disability or heath issues that are documented, they should go through the schools office of disability services.
Anonymous
Post 07/14/2020 11:31     Subject: Can professors force students to attend class in person?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Attendance apologies around COVID are set by the university and I can’t fathom a school not allowing a student to opt into DL. Clarity around this isn’t great right now and I’m finding students think they have to come in when actually they don’t and I won’t be teaching in person 90% of the time.
Can your child just directly ask the department chair if there is a policy in the works for opting into distance learning? That would be an appropriate person to ask (the Professor doesn’t set this at a department-level) and in college “Dean of Students” isn’t a thing.


+1 to this, OP.

OP, your DD may be afraid to ask about this -- people love to say here that "you must let your college student handle ALL this alone, because, ADULT!" but if she has never before navigated questioning a person in authority over her, she might just knuckle under and not question it. So it's OK, and it is not "helicoptering," to give her some guidance. But don't make these contacts yourself. She does need to do that; you can give her help with a plan.

She can first confirm with the professor. Is this in writing or did she just hear him or her say it, or hear it second-hand? As the PP above notes students do get these things wrong sometimes and make incorrect assumptions or believe what other students say. She needs to sort that first. If in writing, she goes to the department chair. If overheard she should confirm with professor, ask professor if there is any way to do this DL, and then go to the department chair if the prof is saying no.

There is such a thing as a "dean of students" in colleges though maybe not at PP's college. Your DD needs to know who, over the department chair, is the next level up, if she needs to go there. The title doesn't matter, what matters is that she find the chain of responsibility here. If the department chair says in person is required and she pursues it further she needs to know who is over the department chair.

She may also find strength in numbers. If she knows other students who are also wanting this class DL, she should try (quickly, though) to get them on board to approach the professor/department chair/appropriate dean as a group. One person can be brushed aside as a complainer; a group is harder to ignore.

Finally, if you have a high-risk person in the home and she is living at home, she should point that out. It is a real risk if she is going back and forth to classes while living at home.

Come back and update her, and best of luck to her.


She did reach out to the proffessor directly explaining her concerns. The reply back from the prof was unbelievably rude. The tone of voice was just harsh offering no help other than dropping out. This is not a once a week class either, it is multiple times a week.


PP from above. Then she needs to go over the professor's head to the department chairperson. Some professors can be very protective and territorial about their classes and consider it a high privilege for the student to be in their classes, and this may be a case like that (or, the prof could be an OK person who is utterly terrified of losing his or her job, so is trying to prove something by throwing weight around). If this is a lecture and not a discussion section class or a lab class, is there some pressing reason it MUST be in person? If it's purely lecture she needs to go to the chairperson with other students if at all possible (or get other students to e-mail and call about this so the department gets a lot of complaints, not just hers).
Anonymous
Post 07/14/2020 11:27     Subject: Can professors force students to attend class in person?
Anonymous wrote:Professor here. Believe it or not, colleges still need to maintain accreditation and accreditation rules do mandate that a class designated as on campus still meet a certain number of times. The college can't claim to have an on campus program and simply excuse everyone from attending. If you enroll in an on campus section you will be expected to attend unless you have requested an accommodation like using zoom. This would indeed involve documentation submitted to disability services for a condition like asthma or being immunocompromised


Not OP, asking seriously and without snark: How does this even work, say, this past spring when colleges went all-online, and this coming fall for colleges that are going all (or primarily) online? "On campus sections" of many classes do not exist in some cases at this moment. Accreditation rules and procedures are going to have to change very rapidly or colleges will end up unaccredited in various programs--won't they? I would think that the accreditation bodies would be cutting all kinds of slack right now. Is that not the case generally?

Clearly, certain programs with intense hands-on requirements and laboratory requirements would have to get back into classrooms and labs ASAP in a distanced way. But if the course is entirely a lecture course, it seems simply punitive to tell students they must be physically in a lecture-only class (or even a lecture plus Q&A) or they cannot be in the class at all.
Anonymous
Post 07/14/2020 11:10     Subject: Can professors force students to attend class in person?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Attendance apologies around COVID are set by the university and I can’t fathom a school not allowing a student to opt into DL. Clarity around this isn’t great right now and I’m finding students think they have to come in when actually they don’t and I won’t be teaching in person 90% of the time.
Can your child just directly ask the department chair if there is a policy in the works for opting into distance learning? That would be an appropriate person to ask (the Professor doesn’t set this at a department-level) and in college “Dean of Students” isn’t a thing.




Maybe not for some community colleges, or maybe you are not familiar with any major universities?

Princeton: https://odus.princeton.edu/
Stanford: https://deanofstudents.stanford.edu/
UMichigan: https://deanofstudents.umich.edu/
UC Santa Barbara: http://studentlife.sa.ucsb.edu/departments/dean-of-students



Right, and if not at a college where would a Dean of Students be? Secondary schools, at least public ones, usually have principals and assistant principals, not deans.
Anonymous
Post 07/14/2020 11:03     Subject: Can professors force students to attend class in person?
There may well not be a Dean of Students where PP trained, or where PP is teaching. Probably not something they came across before.

Anyway, back to the main conversation -- OP, any luck?
Anonymous
Post 07/14/2020 10:27     Subject: Can professors force students to attend class in person?
Hopefully the PP will eat some humble pie and think about why they consider it their job to put other posters in their place, given the fact that their VAST knowledge of the world is..."not a thing."
Anonymous
Post 07/14/2020 09:37     Subject: Can professors force students to attend class in person?
Anonymous wrote:Attendance apologies around COVID are set by the university and I can’t fathom a school not allowing a student to opt into DL. Clarity around this isn’t great right now and I’m finding students think they have to come in when actually they don’t and I won’t be teaching in person 90% of the time.
Can your child just directly ask the department chair if there is a policy in the works for opting into distance learning? That would be an appropriate person to ask (the Professor doesn’t set this at a department-level) and in college “Dean of Students” isn’t a thing.




Maybe not for some community colleges, or maybe you are not familiar with any major universities?

Princeton: https://odus.princeton.edu/
Stanford: https://deanofstudents.stanford.edu/
UMichigan: https://deanofstudents.umich.edu/
UC Santa Barbara: http://studentlife.sa.ucsb.edu/departments/dean-of-students

Anonymous
Post 07/14/2020 09:36     Subject: Can professors force students to attend class in person?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Attendance apologies around COVID are set by the university and I can’t fathom a school not allowing a student to opt into DL. Clarity around this isn’t great right now and I’m finding students think they have to come in when actually they don’t and I won’t be teaching in person 90% of the time.
Can your child just directly ask the department chair if there is a policy in the works for opting into distance learning? That would be an appropriate person to ask (the Professor doesn’t set this at a department-level) and in college “Dean of Students” isn’t a thing.


+1 to this, OP.

OP, your DD may be afraid to ask about this -- people love to say here that "you must let your college student handle ALL this alone, because, ADULT!" but if she has never before navigated questioning a person in authority over her, she might just knuckle under and not question it. So it's OK, and it is not "helicoptering," to give her some guidance. But don't make these contacts yourself. She does need to do that; you can give her help with a plan.

She can first confirm with the professor. Is this in writing or did she just hear him or her say it, or hear it second-hand? As the PP above notes students do get these things wrong sometimes and make incorrect assumptions or believe what other students say. She needs to sort that first. If in writing, she goes to the department chair. If overheard she should confirm with professor, ask professor if there is any way to do this DL, and then go to the department chair if the prof is saying no.

There is such a thing as a "dean of students" in colleges though maybe not at PP's college. Your DD needs to know who, over the department chair, is the next level up, if she needs to go there. The title doesn't matter, what matters is that she find the chain of responsibility here. If the department chair says in person is required and she pursues it further she needs to know who is over the department chair.

She may also find strength in numbers. If she knows other students who are also wanting this class DL, she should try (quickly, though) to get them on board to approach the professor/department chair/appropriate dean as a group. One person can be brushed aside as a complainer; a group is harder to ignore.

Finally, if you have a high-risk person in the home and she is living at home, she should point that out. It is a real risk if she is going back and forth to classes while living at home.

Come back and update her, and best of luck to her.


She did reach out to the proffessor directly explaining her concerns. The reply back from the prof was unbelievably rude. The tone of voice was just harsh offering no help other than dropping out. This is not a once a week class either, it is multiple times a week.
Anonymous
Post 07/14/2020 09:35     Subject: Can professors force students to attend class in person?
Anonymous wrote:Attendance apologies around COVID are set by the university and I can’t fathom a school not allowing a student to opt into DL. Clarity around this isn’t great right now and I’m finding students think they have to come in when actually they don’t and I won’t be teaching in person 90% of the time.
Can your child just directly ask the department chair if there is a policy in the works for opting into distance learning? That would be an appropriate person to ask (the Professor doesn’t set this at a department-level) and in college “Dean of Students” isn’t a thing.


So sick of people who think THEIR little world is THE world.

Of course Dean iof students is a “thing” in college. Try googling it you smug jerk.

At the university I teach at, my kid’s school, AU, Vanderbilt, U of Texas, Catholic University, NYU, Harvard.let’s just say the larger world.

So try practicing some humility
Anonymous
Post 07/14/2020 09:26     Subject: Can professors force students to attend class in person?
During COVID most classes are being designed flexibly, so if a student has concerns or gets quarantined, they can Still participate virtually.
Anonymous
Post 07/14/2020 09:26     Subject: Re:Can professors force students to attend class in person?
Anonymous wrote:Does your daughter share your concerns, or is she okay taking this class in person?


She is as concerned as the rest of us.