Anonymous wrote:I was sexually abused as a kid...and I think your wife's reaction is overwrought and sad. Your kid is NOT keeping a secret, quite obviously. And the "secret" she is keeping, or not keeping, is so innocuous and wholesome and APPROPRIATE. While her baby sister is sleeping she and grandma eat popsicles and watch TV?

Laugh with her at this fun with grandma and her specialness to have this treat. I can't for the life of me see how this would set her up for "grooming" by a pedophile...to know that while her sister is sleeping, she and grandma have secret popsicles and tv together...that translates into the notion that secrets should be kept from Mom and Mommy about strangers touching her body? This is so incredibly farfetched.

By the way, the whole "grooming" phenomenon is statistically very over-focused on by parents. I know when I was molested, it was very much a crime of opportunity for the pedophile. He didn't know my brother and me before that day and we happened to be playing alone. Supervising your children is much more important that installing this fear of their loved ones in them, as if never having secret popsicles with grandma somehow protects you from being sexually molested? No, it doesn't. False correlation and anxiety talking.

Well, I was abused by my stepfather for years, and he very much groomed me to keep secrets. I held that secret until I was a teenager, and by that point I was so good about keeping secrets that my stepbrother also abused me and I was hiding my mother’s alcoholism form everyone.

So no, it’s not hyper focused on. Most abusers are the face next door, or in the house.

And FWIW, it doesn’t usually start with abuse. It starts with something that seems innocent enough, like popsicles in bed when alone. Then it turns into a crime of opportunity, but the secret Behaviour about doing special things only together that you’re not really supposed to do, is already established.

Anonymous wrote:I see the point of "no secrets," but it seems to me there must be a better way. It's one of those Rules that takes a very low-probability event and applies it too widely.

I shared a lot of secrets with adults outside my family. I shared how much my parents drank, and how afraid I was of their violence towards each other. It helped a lot to talk with someone who could understand, but I'm pretty sure my parents wouldn't have approved. Those close relationships, in which many secrets were shared, saved me.

Of course I'm sure that none of the parents on this board are alcoholic, abusive, or even controlling.

That was a child (you) telling secrets to an adult or another child. Not an adult telling you to keep a secret from your parents. Do you get the difference?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My wife (we are a wife/wife family fyi) had a very odd reaction to a little game the kids started with my mom. We just recently a few weeks ago expanded our bubble and a big part of that has been seeing both my mom and wife parents as well. My oldest (5) told my wife and myself she has a secret thing she does with grandma when baby is asleep. She was all giggles and my wife laughed and played along for a second but then it turned and she got mad. She said it wasnt appropriate for my mom go "do this to Larla, and set these expectations/secret traps." I think shes crazy and we both know my mom wouldnt start anything dangerous. She really didn't come around and really emphasized it made her feel uncomfortable. The secret by the way is they eat popsicles in bed and watch butterbean cafe when the baby is asleep. Totally innocent and something a 5 yr old would think is fun and scandalous. What am I not seeing here? I'm not even particularly close with my mom but dont see any real issue here.

You sound like an intelligent person. Please do not misuse subject pronouns. The object pronoun is "me", not "myself." Sorry, but this drives me crazy.

I feel very sorry for you.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sorry that y'all have parents who are pedophiles and will rape your children. I cannot empathize at all. People in our social circle are not worried that their parents will rape their children and they don't get offended about every little thing that the grandparents do. YMMV.

You’re an idiot. No one here is worried the grandparents will do anything inappropriate- learn reading comprehension. Little kids aren’t exactly good at nuance - understanding secrets are only ok from grandma/certain adults vs their soccer coach. So you draw a firm line that there are no secrets. It’s not hard to understand and I’d rather be thought of as over protective than regret it. When stories like Sandusky come around, you never hear parents saying oh yeah, definitely suspected it. People are always shocked.

DP. Kids are capable of understanding that grandma is different than a stranger or even the lady next door. When you teach in absolutes you do more harm than good.

Really little kids are, in fact, not always capable of making that distinction.

As evidenced by LIFE. Sandusky, Nassir, ice skating coaches (rampant problem in that sport), priest, etc. Do you ever read a newspaper?

Anonymous wrote:Sorry that y'all have parents who are pedophiles and will rape your children. I cannot empathize at all. People in our social circle are not worried that their parents will rape their children and they don't get offended about every little thing that the grandparents do. YMMV.

I'll try to explain this to you in very simple terms, so that you keep up.

NO ONE thinks these grandparents are abusing these kids.

What we are saying is that setting the precedent that secrets from Mommy is OK, and fun and awesome sets it up so that in the future,mtgechildren are more likely to "keep special secrets" with, say, a gymnastics doctor. A soccer coach. A priest. A teacher. An older brother's friend.

Do you get it yet?

I'm joining the chorus that while keeping surprises that will be revealed soon is fine, keeping secrets from parents is never okay.

I think your mom sounds great. She reminds me of my grandmother. On my visits to her, I'd eat cinnamon toast in bed while she read Little House on the Prairie to me. Lots of things I did at my grandparents' house, would not have been allowed at my own house, but they weren't kept secret. It was just understood by everyone that the rules were different there. My parents knew my grandparents would keep me safe, and beyond that, were willing to allow my grandparents discretion.

Beyond concerns over pedophilia, keeping secrets from parents really comes down to this. Either the parent would be fine with the secret (like popsicles in bed), making the secret pointless or the parent would have a problem with it, at which point the parent's position should be respected. The grandparent is undercutting the parent's authority and putting the kid in the middle.

Imagine hypothetically:

I know your parent thinks kids shouldn't have any screen time, but here you can watch/play as much as you want, it'll just be our secret.

I know your parent makes you wear a seatbelt, but I don't like wearing one. Seatbelts here are optional, it'll just be our secret.

I know your parent is an atheist, but I'm going to take you to my place of worship and it'll just be our secret.

I know your parent said you can't (date someone specific, go to a party, stay out late, etc.), but go ahead and it'll just be our secret.

Your wife is correct. No secrets from you or your wife no matter how fun.

I see the point of "no secrets," but it seems to me there must be a better way. It's one of those Rules that takes a very low-probability event and applies it too widely.

I shared a lot of secrets with adults outside my family. I shared how much my parents drank, and how afraid I was of their violence towards each other. It helped a lot to talk with someone who could understand, but I'm pretty sure my parents wouldn't have approved. Those close relationships, in which many secrets were shared, saved me.

Of course I'm sure that none of the parents on this board are alcoholic, abusive, or even controlling.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sorry that y'all have parents who are pedophiles and will rape your children. I cannot empathize at all. People in our social circle are not worried that their parents will rape their children and they don't get offended about every little thing that the grandparents do. YMMV.

You’re an idiot. No one here is worried the grandparents will do anything inappropriate- learn reading comprehension. Little kids aren’t exactly good at nuance - understanding secrets are only ok from grandma/certain adults vs their soccer coach. So you draw a firm line that there are no secrets. It’s not hard to understand and I’d rather be thought of as over protective than regret it. When stories like Sandusky come around, you never hear parents saying oh yeah, definitely suspected it. People are always shocked.

DP. Kids are capable of understanding that grandma is different than a stranger or even the lady next door. When you teach in absolutes you do more harm than good.

Really little kids are, in fact, not always capable of making that distinction.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sorry that y'all have parents who are pedophiles and will rape your children. I cannot empathize at all. People in our social circle are not worried that their parents will rape their children and they don't get offended about every little thing that the grandparents do. YMMV.

You’re an idiot. No one here is worried the grandparents will do anything inappropriate- learn reading comprehension. Little kids aren’t exactly good at nuance - understanding secrets are only ok from grandma/certain adults vs their soccer coach. So you draw a firm line that there are no secrets. It’s not hard to understand and I’d rather be thought of as over protective than regret it. When stories like Sandusky come around, you never hear parents saying oh yeah, definitely suspected it. People are always shocked.

DP. Kids are capable of understanding that grandma is different than a stranger or even the lady next door. When you teach in absolutes you do more harm than good.

You wife's reaction was inappropriate and over-the-top. She should not have reacted the way she did in front of your kids. Try to teach your kids that they should not keep secrets but that they can have fun surprises. Also help them differentiate between secrets with people we trust versus strangers. A grandma you as parents trust is completely different than the mom next door or your cousin or the teen down the street. Don't train your kids to jump at monsters in the doorway for every door. They need a safe place and your home should be it. You trust your mom so allow your kids to trust her, too.

Anonymous wrote:Sorry that y'all have parents who are pedophiles and will rape your children. I cannot empathize at all. People in our social circle are not worried that their parents will rape their children and they don't get offended about every little thing that the grandparents do. YMMV.

You’re an idiot. No one here is worried the grandparents will do anything inappropriate- learn reading comprehension. Little kids aren’t exactly good at nuance - understanding secrets are only ok from grandma/certain adults vs their soccer coach. So you draw a firm line that there are no secrets. It’s not hard to understand and I’d rather be thought of as over protective than regret it. When stories like Sandusky come around, you never hear parents saying oh yeah, definitely suspected it. People are always shocked.

The whole teaching another person's child to keep secrets has been taboo since before my high schooler was born. No need to get mad at anyone. Just talk to grandma and explain times have changed and that the word secret has become more complicated.

Sorry that y'all have parents who are pedophiles and will rape your children. I cannot empathize at all. People in our social circle are not worried that their parents will rape their children and they don't get offended about every little thing that the grandparents do. YMMV.

It was cute and sweet but I agree with everyone else. No need to get mad at grandma but explain that what everyone else said. Maybe grandma lived in a more innocent time. Still.