Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There’s no reason it should harm careers except misogyny.

Upspeak makes you sound uncertain. That’s not misogyny. Women should unlearn it stay and also get rid of the vocal fry, which may also have its roots in trying to temper ones assertiveness.

— very liberal female

ditto. If you use upspeak or vocal fry, I immediately have no interest in what you have to say and have definitely chosen not to hire candidates because of this. Grow up.

Ha, ha! I see I inadvertently messed up my link, but no fear as the pp above me posted the same one.

Anonymous wrote:There’s no reason it should harm careers except misogyny.

+1 Stop policing women's vocal tone, and listen to what they say.

Here's an interesting article on voice, to dispel a lot of myths.
[img]https://www.npr.org/sections/publiceditor/2019/08/07/749060986/sounding-like-a-reporter-and-a-real-person-too[url]

Vocal fry is one of the main voice complaints sent to the Invisibilia team, said project manager Liana Simstrom, who handles audience engagement for the narrative podcast about human behavior. Even the show's reviews on iTunes are full of complaints about the voices of the hosts, both of whom are women, especially their vocal fry.

Simstrom ascribes those criticisms to gender: "I have long had a theory that part of what people take issue with about our show is women speaking authoritatively about science."

She pointed out that Ira Glass, the host of This American Life who has an iconic radio voice, uses a lot of vocal fry. "I think of Ira Glass as the king of vocal fry," she said. "It's so quintessential to his delivery." This American Life even did a segment on the negative messages their women reporters receive about vocal fry. But Glass said in that episode that he never hears about his.

Eckert, the linguist, found that the biggest users of vocal fry are actually men. In the Fresh Air episode about criticism of young women's voices she said,"People are busy policing young women's language, and nobody is policing older or younger men's language."

Anonymous wrote:I absolutely detest vocal fry. I have to turn off NPR programs where the speakers croak and croak. It’s physically painful for me to listen to the froggy speak.

Thankfully my adult daughters (3 of them) don’t speak with vocal fry. And thankfully nobody in my work setting sounds this way, either!

Your comment reminded me of this great article.

https://www.npr.org/sections/publiceditor/2019/08/07/749060986/sounding-like-a-reporter-and-a-real-person-too

Anonymous wrote:It KILLS me. Drives me nuts. And it's only the Americans who do it.

Nope. Canadians are the leaders in upspeak followed by the South Africans. They have been doing it for generations!

It kills me too and now the millennials are doing it. Do yourself a favor and do NOT listen to This American Life podcast about vocal fry. Will make you go insane.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't hear it in anyone over the age of about 28. It's actively harming careers. As a man I can't speak up because it sounds sexist but hopefully some of the older millenial and gen x women will say something.

I'm a millennial woman and I do have something to say about this.

You know what's harming our careers? Sexist mouth-breathing men like you who look for any reason to dismiss the intellect of a female colleague.

If you think vocal fry is annoying, I can guarantee you also sound like a total idiot in meetings.

Sorry frog voice. I’m a Gen X woman and you’re the one with the vocal problem. You guys subsconciously think that it makes you sound intelligent and perhaps older, but it’s the opposite.

+1 Another Gen X woman who thinks you sound dumb, PP.

Why are you falling for that dumb trap of generation vs. generation? Grow up.

Because I’ve honestly never heard anyone over 35 speak in that very particular way. It is generational. And it’s annoying to me. I’m sure I have my own habits and tics that are annoying to younger generations in the office and I’m sure they wouldn’t hesitate to bring them up in an anonymous forum. It’s fine.

They might complain that you're a judgmental dope, but that certainly isn't a generational thing.

Anonymous wrote:I absolutely detest vocal fry. I have to turn off NPR programs where the speakers croak and croak. It’s physically painful for me to listen to the froggy speak.

Thankfully my adult daughters (3 of them) don’t speak with vocal fry. And thankfully nobody in my work setting sounds this way, either!

You poor thing. How dare NPR subject you to actual physical pain!!!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't hear it in anyone over the age of about 28. It's actively harming careers. As a man I can't speak up because it sounds sexist but hopefully some of the older millenial and gen x women will say something.

I'm a millennial woman and I do have something to say about this.

You know what's harming our careers? Sexist mouth-breathing men like you who look for any reason to dismiss the intellect of a female colleague.

If you think vocal fry is annoying, I can guarantee you also sound like a total idiot in meetings.

Sorry frog voice. I’m a Gen X woman and you’re the one with the vocal problem. You guys subsconciously think that it makes you sound intelligent and perhaps older, but it’s the opposite.

+1 Another Gen X woman who thinks you sound dumb, PP.

Why are you falling for that dumb trap of generation vs. generation? Grow up.

Because I’ve honestly never heard anyone over 35 speak in that very particular way. It is generational. And it’s annoying to me. I’m sure I have my own habits and tics that are annoying to younger generations in the office and I’m sure they wouldn’t hesitate to bring them up in an anonymous forum. It’s fine.

Ira Glass has the worst vocal fry and no one ever complains about it because he’s a man. Your internalized sexism is showing. Just get over it, some people talk differently from you.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why is it okay to bash women over the way they speak, but if someone was to say a gay man speaks in a swishy voice they would be shouted down and told they are being intolerant.

How is it any different?

Never met a gay person who speaks in that way in a professional setting.

Then your professional setting isn't diverse enough. People who are policing vocal fry and other gendered or racialized speech patterns aren't simply talking about "professional settings," they are reinforcing structural inequality.

I absolutely detest vocal fry. I have to turn off NPR programs where the speakers croak and croak. It’s physically painful for me to listen to the froggy speak.

Thankfully my adult daughters (3 of them) don’t speak with vocal fry. And thankfully nobody in my work setting sounds this way, either!

Anonymous wrote:Why is it okay to bash women over the way they speak, but if someone was to say a gay man speaks in a swishy voice they would be shouted down and told they are being intolerant.

How is it any different?

Never met a gay person who speaks in that way in a professional setting.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There’s no reason it should harm careers except misogyny.

I'd agree with this except that it seems to be a uniquely American phenomenon. If you work in a global company, you don't encounter this speech pattern, which telegraphs hesitancy and uncertainty.

Perhaps it telegraphs uncertainty TO YOU, but you can reconsider your personal bias.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't hear it in anyone over the age of about 28. It's actively harming careers. As a man I can't speak up because it sounds sexist but hopefully some of the older millenial and gen x women will say something.

I'm a millennial woman and I do have something to say about this.

You know what's harming our careers? Sexist mouth-breathing men like you who look for any reason to dismiss the intellect of a female colleague.

If you think vocal fry is annoying, I can guarantee you also sound like a total idiot in meetings.

Sorry frog voice. I’m a Gen X woman and you’re the one with the vocal problem. You guys subsconciously think that it makes you sound intelligent and perhaps older, but it’s the opposite.

+1 Another Gen X woman who thinks you sound dumb, PP.

Why are you falling for that dumb trap of generation vs. generation? Grow up.

Why is it okay to bash women over the way they speak, but if someone was to say a gay man speaks in a swishy voice they would be shouted down and told they are being intolerant.

How is it any different?