OP here....Thanks for all of the suggestions and comments. I called a family meeting and we came up with a minimum amount of cleanliness (so it's NOT at a hoarding level, which some areas were). We are doing a big purge first, of the worst areas, which are the garage and the basement.

I have no misconceptions that the issue is partly ADD, partly just being boys/men, and partly that their standards are just different. But we concentrated on the fact that at this point it is affecting all of us, even to the point that we cannot sometimes get to a bike because the piles are so big. So no bike ride, can't find a hammer or screwdriver, they get frustrated, etc. It is not just me being controlling or demanding that they adhere to my standards, as someone suggested. They all realize that it is not a productive way to live.

I do the bin idea, sometimes on a small scale inside the house. If one person has about 30 things they didn't put away, I just pile them all in the middle of the rug, point out that "that is yours, can you put it all away please?", and then it gets done. Thats the most I can hope for as I know everyone isn't like me and just automatically puts their things away when they are done with them. And me piling it up makes me feel better because the clutter isn't ALL over the house and I can vacuum almost the whole floor.

I think sitting down and discussing and coming up with a mutually agreed on minimum has to help. We will see how it goes in about a month after the garage is clean though. Its almost as if they see "getting it clean" as the end. No....it's KEEPING it clean that has to happen. I could make it spotless today, but if everyone doesn't maintain it to some degree we will be right back where we started from very quickly. It's the keeping it neat that is the biggest issue. And I'm tired of having to be a nag and complain because there are another 4 boxes of crap in front of the beach chair that I now cannot reach.

I am right there with you, OP. This has been my life for 24 years. Husband is a slob. To him, every table surface is a dumping ground. Our three-car garage is filled with trash and tools everywhere. When he can't find a tool, he goes to Home Depot to buy a new one. He rarely throws anything in the trash, but leaves it wherever is convenient. He never puts his clothes on hangers, but in piles on the chair or the floor. I have tried for years to get him to understand that this is not acceptable. That trash should go in the trash. That everything should have a home. I have seen no improvement and it only causes arguments. Anytime I bring it up he tells me I have OCD and I need to let it go., or he will point out something of mine that has been left out as evidence that I am a hypocrite. So I have given up and fume silently as I clean up after him. My two adult daughters are living at home now and they are the same way. I have to ask them to put their stuff away. It's as if they are all blind to the mess. And now that we are all cooped up working from home I am filled with resentment. Would never have married him if I knew how bad this would be.

Been married for 40 plus years. Two sons. Same scenario. What I didn't realize until recently, like the last 3 months since my husband lost his job is this, males are wired differently than females. A whole lot different. They don't see the way we see things. I don't know why I didn't see this early on because there were big glaring signs right in my face but I guess I was so focused on keeping the mess under control, constantly stressing about it and being exhausted all the time I just did not see it. I always felt like the gatekeeper but never really going through the gate. I was not here to clean up everyone's mess. I deserved a life too.

My advice, either do the cleanup yourself when they aren't around or let it go. It's a no win situation for you. They like the mess. You aren't being heard. Nothing will get resolved. When any of them question where is this, where is that, you say I don't know and go about your business. It takes time to let go but it will happen. I tried crying, making lists, paying them, blaming my husband, going on strike, going away for the weekend. NOTHING WORKED.

The day I said okay, I am no longer the gatekeeper fetching mess, I cut my stress in half. Then Dad took over. Once he changed the rest followed. All I said was you do your part and I'll do mine. I can no longer do everyone's part. We either form a team or things can go to s. Whichever way this goes is up to you. Today is the day.

I overlooked the little things and Dad looked after the big things. Once we got on the same page things got much better. It took a while but it all worked.

Try to find some common ground. Use love in your words and watch them understand. Tell them you can't be all things. They will choose what kind of mother/wife they want.

good luck.

I can relate to some degree. I echo calling a mtg, cleaning it up together and dumping excess (call a junk pickup svs). Going forward, for your peace of mind, remove your necessary stuff from their areas. Then let their spaces go...just let it go. Yearly, if you feel compelled, regroup entire family and do a cleanup. My garage is a mess too. It's my husband's area I just let it go. Inside is organized (i am the one doing it yes) and that's what matters more to me. See if this makes sense to you. Feel for you.

If I have to clean it up it goes in the trash, or on their dinner plates because I had to clean up for them and didn't have time to cook.. But we started cleanup training when my children were toddlers so this behavior for them wasn’t the norm even though they did wander occasionally. It is difficult when Dad sets the example so you are going to have to talk with him and get some team work going. When not cleaning up became a habit for our family, we had family cleanup days. Once the cleanup of an area was accomplished we went for an outing, went out to eat or purchased a special family item. You got a lot of other good posts suggestions, maybe some of these will help. I know for me personally if I don’t organize things I am more likely not to clean up my mess. So it does appear that organizing does help. I am praying for you to be able to overcome this problem and build good habits in your children. It really is about setting the goal to build responsible citizens. You are building habits and traits for a lifetime of success. Training up a child in the way he/she should go is one of parents most challenging jobs. God bless your family.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have six kids, and could not live the way you are living. EVERYTHING. HAS. A. PLACE! And everyone knows where that place is. Our house is super organized. Sure, sometimes crap is left all over, but if I gathered the family and said "Important company is coming in 15 minutes," we could have everything neat and organized.

You need to tell them that they have until July 1st to clean up/throw out their stuff. Starting July 1, if something is left out in your way, you are THROWING IT OUT. Everyone must clean up after themselves.

(But the key to them being able to do that is knowing where things should go. Put little stickers on shelves in closets saying what goes where if you need to.)

OP here. well this was my plan on how to run this home, but I'm thinking that because my husband doesn't care the others have learned to be this way as well. And his reactions over the years when I've mentioned anything have shown them how "ridiculous" I am I guess. He has gotten angry and spent entire weekends in the garage "cleaning up" but his method does't really solve anything for the long term.No organizational system. Maybe just a path is created and a few things thrown out. But the next time someone wants or needs a tool/supplies or anything else, the boxes have to be pulled out, the item found, then the boxes are just left out. It makes not sense in my logical mind to live like this, and I have no recourse left that I can think of. They don't even seem to understand the concept I'm trying to get through to them to make a place that MAKES SENSE, then put it back there when you are done.

It's stressful for all of us, because every month or so it reaches a tipping point and hours have to be spent "cleaning up" again.

A good example is that we opened our pool and the box with the parts in it was buried, 5 boxes were taken out to get to that one box, then all 6 boxes were left out all over the garage because we needed one damn part to attach a ladder. It would be funny if it wasn't so sickening to live with.

How do you get everyone to cooperate? I would be more than willing to put in the work myself to get it initially organized, but not if it's just going to be ignored and be back where it was a week ago anyway.

I've been organized my whole life. So my kids were born into it. My step kids were single-digit ages when we met and they learned fast. Not cooperating is not an option. Give a warning and then start throwing their shit out. I've had kids cry and scream at me when their stuff is gone. But I tell them "Don't cry to me because you're sad at something you could have avoided. Don't be angry at me - be angry at yourself and then do better next time." Sometimes instead of throwing their stuff out I just hide it for a few days on top of a closet shelf or something, if I know it's REALLY important to them or something their mom gave them.

Also, we are as minimalist as you can be with so many kids. So for example, two girls are sitting at the table with art supplies spread all over. I am in the kitchen making dinner and quizzing another kid on spelling. I tell the girls "In five minutes you need to start cleaning up so Jack can set the table." Six minutes later if they're still applying glitter I say "You have four minutes to have cleaned off the table. Anything left will be thrown out." And if they don't move I have Jack continue cooking while I go and sweep everything on the table into a bag and throw it out. I won't make one kid toss another kid's stuff - that's my and DH's job. Then when they say two weeks later that they need glitter for their book report cover, I say "You lost your glitter because you didn't put it away. You'll have to decorate your cover using something you DID put away." They don't like it, but it doesn't happen often because they've learned.

This is impressive. I wish I could be like this but I have a hard time being tough and actually throwing things away or not giving them back

I’m a neat freak myself. I clean everything myself. You can’t make anyone else do anything. Clean it yourself and just move on.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have six kids, and could not live the way you are living. EVERYTHING. HAS. A. PLACE! And everyone knows where that place is. Our house is super organized. Sure, sometimes crap is left all over, but if I gathered the family and said "Important company is coming in 15 minutes," we could have everything neat and organized.

You need to tell them that they have until July 1st to clean up/throw out their stuff. Starting July 1, if something is left out in your way, you are THROWING IT OUT. Everyone must clean up after themselves.

(But the key to them being able to do that is knowing where things should go. Put little stickers on shelves in closets saying what goes where if you need to.)

OP here. well this was my plan on how to run this home, but I'm thinking that because my husband doesn't care the others have learned to be this way as well. And his reactions over the years when I've mentioned anything have shown them how "ridiculous" I am I guess. He has gotten angry and spent entire weekends in the garage "cleaning up" but his method does't really solve anything for the long term.No organizational system. Maybe just a path is created and a few things thrown out. But the next time someone wants or needs a tool/supplies or anything else, the boxes have to be pulled out, the item found, then the boxes are just left out. It makes not sense in my logical mind to live like this, and I have no recourse left that I can think of. They don't even seem to understand the concept I'm trying to get through to them to make a place that MAKES SENSE, then put it back there when you are done.

It's stressful for all of us, because every month or so it reaches a tipping point and hours have to be spent "cleaning up" again.

A good example is that we opened our pool and the box with the parts in it was buried, 5 boxes were taken out to get to that one box, then all 6 boxes were left out all over the garage because we needed one damn part to attach a ladder. It would be funny if it wasn't so sickening to live with.

How do you get everyone to cooperate? I would be more than willing to put in the work myself to get it initially organized, but not if it's just going to be ignored and be back where it was a week ago anyway.

I've been organized my whole life. So my kids were born into it. My step kids were single-digit ages when we met and they learned fast. Not cooperating is not an option. Give a warning and then start throwing their shit out. I've had kids cry and scream at me when their stuff is gone. But I tell them "Don't cry to me because you're sad at something you could have avoided. Don't be angry at me - be angry at yourself and then do better next time." Sometimes instead of throwing their stuff out I just hide it for a few days on top of a closet shelf or something, if I know it's REALLY important to them or something their mom gave them.

Also, we are as minimalist as you can be with so many kids. So for example, two girls are sitting at the table with art supplies spread all over. I am in the kitchen making dinner and quizzing another kid on spelling. I tell the girls "In five minutes you need to start cleaning up so Jack can set the table." Six minutes later if they're still applying glitter I say "You have four minutes to have cleaned off the table. Anything left will be thrown out." And if they don't move I have Jack continue cooking while I go and sweep everything on the table into a bag and throw it out. I won't make one kid toss another kid's stuff - that's my and DH's job. Then when they say two weeks later that they need glitter for their book report cover, I say "You lost your glitter because you didn't put it away. You'll have to decorate your cover using something you DID put away." They don't like it, but it doesn't happen often because they've learned.

OP, your situation sounds worse than mine because you have more kids and (i assume) a bigger house. I live in a small house with 2 young kids and a husband who thinks nothing of leaving his coffee mug and plate from breakfast on the dining room table all day. I vow to leave it until he put them in the sink, but by mid-afternoon i get too annoyed and just take into the kitchen. He opens a package and leaving the packaging on the counter/table. It's like he just doesn't see it! Of course my kids do the same stuff, but at least they have the excuse of being little kids-- and I'm teaching to them to put things away. It makes me so angry but I try to remind myself of the other things he does -- and the fact that I love him!

Hire a professional organizer to work directly with them. She/he can teach or force them how to declutter, how to group things and how to allocate a spot for everything.

If that does not improve the situation, then you have to bring the nasty out and start throwing things out, unflinchingly.

They all have some bad habits. Things that are left out should all be put in a big pile (yes, you will have to do this much). Once a day, announce to your family that they have 15 minutes to put away their belongings or they will be thrown out. Then, throw that stuff away.

OP, you described my life to a T. I just need to express my sympathy and solidarity with you, and am following along hoping a solution comes out of this thread.

Just want to express sympathy for you OP. This is tough. My kids are 4 and 6 and I basically threaten to throw anything away that’s left out. I’m hoping this works in the long run but not too optimistic.

Anonymous wrote:I don't know. It seems like you are in the minority in your family.

Why do you get to dictate the terms?

Why do you call is "sickening and disgusting?" That would be true for filth...but disorganization? It just irritates you. That is your personality type. Would they say you need to chill?

You stated early on how you have let YOUR standards down somewhat. Who put you in charge of the standards. Just another way to think about it.

this! i think the problem lies in you wanting your husband and two boys to confirm to YOUR standard because you ultimately think it is the "correct" standard ... but it's subjective. Mess is mess. So long as it isn't unhealthy, or at a hording level, it might be causing YOU some mental anguish to see the mess, but - as my therapist likes to say - that is a YOU problem, not a THEM problem.

(disclosure - i get it! DH has ADHD and i struggle with the same things, I have been learning to understand and accepting his ADHD and seeing it's positives, rather than trying to make my ADHD husband like me... because he never will be)

Anonymous wrote:In a few years they will be gone and you will miss It.

No. She'll miss them, not their mess.

Box. Toss. Goodbye stuff.