Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You have to find a way to make the "queen bee" friend useful and not put judgements on her actions. My "queen bee" friend basically excommunicated one in our group because of a fight and in my opinion she definitely was the one that was in the wrong, but I kept that to myself and I stayed out of the fight.

Sound like we are in high school. AMR?

What was the fight over?
I’m treading carefully because I don’t want to excommunicate anyone. I think for her, she just needs to be the planner and one organizing everything and gets threatened if anyone else takes on that role. Which is fine, but be civil and don’t try to make every social outing an opportunity to decide who you want to exclude. I can’t think of a situation where she hasn’t done this. I’m not talking about smaller outings of 2-3 people. I mean she hand picks one person to exclude,announces why and talks about it. . It’s not necessary. We all get along great and have always been a kind, supportive group of friends.

So, I’m curious, what are some of the reasons she gives for excluding that one person?

I am having a lot of trouble imagining a grown woman acting like this too. Does she do the equivalent of a middle school girl and announce she's not inviting Betty Lou to her super cool birthday sleepover party because Betty Lou talked to a boy she likes? It just sounds completely bizarre to me.

This whole thread labeling someone good or bad is an absurd way to think about adults. People aren’t all wonderful or all terrible. Sometimes dynamics just expire because one friend doesn’t take social cues or people change. This recently happened in my friend group. One member pushed and pushed on another member for favors (and overstepped with others too). She is not a ‘bad’ person but it just became an unworkable dynamic. No one is bad. It’s just kind of like when there is no longer chemistry in a romantic relationship.

Anonymous wrote:They also make you feel special by being the chosen one , but believe me, they're still trashing you to others. But that special feeling is why people don't stand up to them.

Our president is the same way.

+10000000
This is sort of her tactic. I’ve never understood this. It’s an insecurity thing right? And the weird thing is she is by no means “queen bee” type, which is why I was blindsided. She hasn’t ever had many friends. I suspect she uses all these tactics and strategies because she worries if she is just herself and takes the games out of the equation she won’t seem as exciting or fun to be friends with. The thing is no one cares who is “exciting”. I think most of us were just happy to have a good group of new girl friends we met in our 30’s .. and overall the group has been supportive and caring, through parent’s death, kids sickness and emergencies, new pregnancies, losses, job issues and other things that require support at this stage in our life.

OP, there is not usually a lot you can do by confronting this. I mean, you might get lucky, but it gets messy quickly. People are not going to react in straightforward and uncomplicated ways.

I think one feasible option is to cultivate the relationships you care about within this group individually, outside of the group -- so, check in on email or video with specific friends, send a physical letter or something that shows you are thinking of them (a book you discussed that they wanted to read, or nice chocolates to perk up their spirits, etc). Make those interactions about the positive things you share and love, not the negativity in the group. look forward, not back, and strengthen bonds.

If you are with the group or a group conversation and you see someone being excluded, say something about it once -- gently, firmly -- and then decide whether to continue with that plan or interaction, or drop out. "Hey, I really think Larla would like to come, and I don't want to shut her out of our get-togethers." Then drop it. Decide if you still want to go, whether or not your comment changes anything. but keep building and strengthening the good relationships you have.

There doesn't have to be a knockout showdown. This doesn't have to be Big Drama. You can decide what you want and what you feel good about, and keep that, and let the rest fall away. You can't argue other people inti liking or valuing you, or really anyone, but you can lead by example and protect your own boundaries.

Unfortunately, what you are dealing with here is a parasitic human. She saw a good healthy target to feed off of (happy, outgoing you) and knew she could easily use you and then co-opt your friends.

She cares nothing for you. She cares nothing for your friends. People are nothing more than feeding opportunities for her. This is evidenced by her need to control and direct people for her own needs.

I was in a situation like this many years ago. I started distancing myself from the whole group and only reached out to do one-on-one with others.

Eventually, it wound up being just me and one other woman who remained friends. The interesting thing is this woman was the only one who demonstrated the kind of personality, integrity and qualities that I would really want in a friend. So she was golden. She also saw through the parasite. We left the rest of them to their feeding frenzy and never looked back.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Serious question: Why are you friends with someone who is intentionally mean to others? What’s going on with your own self-esteem that you need to have someone like this as a friend?

I can’t speak for OP, but Ive been friendly with people at work and in the neighborhood, and not realized for months - in same cases years - that they were mean. Mean girls can be charming and outgoing and in my case, I didnt realize it until I was already entwined. People who are just openly mean and rude all the time are easier to spot. The ones who are nice at first and hide the ugly for awhile - harder to see and then harder to get away from.

+1

Similar experiences. It’s hard once your lives are so intertwined.

Not really, just cut them out of your life. Every few years you really have to look at your friend group and decide who you really enjoy spending time with and who you just feel obligated to. Cut out all the ones that you just do out of obligation--sure your circle will shrink but you will have more rewarding and meaningful friendships with those that remain.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:She is a mean girl. Does anyone confront her? The next time she excludes someone, tell up her it’s not very nice and now you don’t want to do it either. Geez, grow a pair.

I’ll invite the person excluded. But no, no one has called her out. It’s sad to say but I think people put up with it bc they don’t want to be her personal target and she’s in the middle of everything. It’s a weird dynamic.

I get this, I really do, as I was in the same scenario. What I can warn you now is that your other perceived “strong friendships” are not as strong as you think. Because if they go along with her to avoid being a target — which I get on one hand — they are also mean girl enablers and most of all, cowards. And trust me, that sheep behavior and coward behavior in the others will cause you problems for reasons totally outside of your relationship with the main chick. Good luck and I’m sorry — these circles always have a toxic implosion.

^^100%

They also make you feel special by being the chosen one , but believe me, they're still trashing you to others. But that special feeling is why people don't stand up to them.

Our president is the same way.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you are the excluded one, you aren't as close as you think

Find a better use for your time/energy

You’re right. When I say close, I just mean she was initiating getting together several times a week with me and we talked often. So in my mind we were close but you’re right. Close friends don’t exclude each other in a situation similar to what happened. 1 out of a large group not invited. I’m also seeing now that we were never really friends. I was more of an acquaintance she kept around to get to know others. I’m a little more outgoing and had other friends she was interested in getting to know.

Yeah, just get what you can out of the situation in terms of maybe having fun sometimes with the people if you don't have a better option that day, but don't count on them or go out of your way for them either

I know people that sometimes disappoint me, sometimes come by and hang out with the group. We can have some laughs together but I won't expect anything from them or consider them close friends

Unfortunately I’ve had to relegate a group of women I thought were really good friends to this role recently. You’re totally right. But it’s still sad.

I do see what you’re saying but I don’t even know if she’s worth that. As other PP have said, I would probably be doing myself a favor to cut her off. 100 percent.

OK, to sum it up... this woman is malignantly manipulative, mean to others for no reason, wants to be in complete control, will throw her oldest "friend" under the bus (you) to win others over, and basically gives nothing to others except angst and drama.

And why is it you even want to associate with her, let alone call her a friend???

I called her a friend just to acknowledge at the time she considered me a “best friend” .. it is very clear we weren’t friends and I definitely don’t consider her a friend now. I have lost all respect for her. The unfortunate thing is she is somewhat entwined in my life because her entire social circle consists of my friends I had introduced her to. She also comes on very strong so there is no way to change that. She actively is making plans with these people as often as she can. I have never seen an adult who makes plans this often. And it’s even harder to have a breather from her because she doesn’t have family or friends outside of these people so there are no breaks. I would have thought during a quarantine things would settle down a little but she has been even more active than ever planning social distancing get together 3-4 nights a week. It’s a lot.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Serious question: Why are you friends with someone who is intentionally mean to others? What’s going on with your own self-esteem that you need to have someone like this as a friend?

I can’t speak for OP, but Ive been friendly with people at work and in the neighborhood, and not realized for months - in same cases years - that they were mean. Mean girls can be charming and outgoing and in my case, I didnt realize it until I was already entwined. People who are just openly mean and rude all the time are easier to spot. The ones who are nice at first and hide the ugly for awhile - harder to see and then harder to get away from.

+1

Similar experiences. It’s hard once your lives are so intertwined.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you are the excluded one, you aren't as close as you think

Find a better use for your time/energy

You’re right. When I say close, I just mean she was initiating getting together several times a week with me and we talked often. So in my mind we were close but you’re right. Close friends don’t exclude each other in a situation similar to what happened. 1 out of a large group not invited. I’m also seeing now that we were never really friends. I was more of an acquaintance she kept around to get to know others. I’m a little more outgoing and had other friends she was interested in getting to know.

Yeah, just get what you can out of the situation in terms of maybe having fun sometimes with the people if you don't have a better option that day, but don't count on them or go out of your way for them either

I know people that sometimes disappoint me, sometimes come by and hang out with the group. We can have some laughs together but I won't expect anything from them or consider them close friends

Unfortunately I’ve had to relegate a group of women I thought were really good friends to this role recently. You’re totally right. But it’s still sad.

I do see what you’re saying but I don’t even know if she’s worth that. As other PP have said, I would probably be doing myself a favor to cut her off. 100 percent.

OK, to sum it up... this woman is malignantly manipulative, mean to others for no reason, wants to be in complete control, will throw her oldest "friend" under the bus (you) to win others over, and basically gives nothing to others except angst and drama.

And why is it you even want to associate with her, let alone call her a friend???

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you are the excluded one, you aren't as close as you think

Find a better use for your time/energy

You’re right. When I say close, I just mean she was initiating getting together several times a week with me and we talked often. So in my mind we were close but you’re right. Close friends don’t exclude each other in a situation similar to what happened. 1 out of a large group not invited. I’m also seeing now that we were never really friends. I was more of an acquaintance she kept around to get to know others. I’m a little more outgoing and had other friends she was interested in getting to know.

Yeah, just get what you can out of the situation in terms of maybe having fun sometimes with the people if you don't have a better option that day, but don't count on them or go out of your way for them either

I know people that sometimes disappoint me, sometimes come by and hang out with the group. We can have some laughs together but I won't expect anything from them or consider them close friends

Unfortunately I’ve had to relegate a group of women I thought were really good friends to this role recently. You’re totally right. But it’s still sad.

I do see what you’re saying but I don’t even know if she’s worth that. As other PP have said, I would probably be doing myself a favor to cut her off. 100 percent.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you are the excluded one, you aren't as close as you think

Find a better use for your time/energy

You’re right. When I say close, I just mean she was initiating getting together several times a week with me and we talked often. So in my mind we were close but you’re right. Close friends don’t exclude each other in a situation similar to what happened. 1 out of a large group not invited. I’m also seeing now that we were never really friends. I was more of an acquaintance she kept around to get to know others. I’m a little more outgoing and had other friends she was interested in getting to know.

Getting together several times a week? We’re you coworkers? Was it a lunch thing?That seems like a LOT for regular friends.

Not co-workers and it was a lot, to the point where we couldn’t keep up. She had a tendency to come on super strong and try to book you as much as she can for anything social which is tough when you have any other family or friends outside of the group. Plus we just aren’t interested in spending time with another family that much.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You have to find a way to make the "queen bee" friend useful and not put judgements on her actions. My "queen bee" friend basically excommunicated one in our group because of a fight and in my opinion she definitely was the one that was in the wrong, but I kept that to myself and I stayed out of the fight.

Sound like we are in high school. AMR?

What was the fight over?
I’m treading carefully because I don’t want to excommunicate anyone. I think for her, she just needs to be the planner and one organizing everything and gets threatened if anyone else takes on that role. Which is fine, but be civil and don’t try to make every social outing an opportunity to decide who you want to exclude. I can’t think of a situation where she hasn’t done this. I’m not talking about smaller outings of 2-3 people. I mean she hand picks one person to exclude,announces why and talks about it. . It’s not necessary. We all get along great and have always been a kind, supportive group of friends.

So, I’m curious, what are some of the reasons she gives for excluding that one person?

Everything- not Christian, age of the kids was not compatible (even though all our kids are within 1-2 years of each other), relationship thing or some drama about one of the kids (larlo
hit karla at her 2nd birthday, he has violence issues)

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you are the excluded one, you aren't as close as you think

Find a better use for your time/energy

You’re right. When I say close, I just mean she was initiating getting together several times a week with me and we talked often. So in my mind we were close but you’re right. Close friends don’t exclude each other in a situation similar to what happened. 1 out of a large group not invited. I’m also seeing now that we were never really friends. I was more of an acquaintance she kept around to get to know others. I’m a little more outgoing and had other friends she was interested in getting to know.

Yeah, just get what you can out of the situation in terms of maybe having fun sometimes with the people if you don't have a better option that day, but don't count on them or go out of your way for them either

I know people that sometimes disappoint me, sometimes come by and hang out with the group. We can have some laughs together but I won't expect anything from them or consider them close friends

Unfortunately I’ve had to relegate a group of women I thought were really good friends to this role recently. You’re totally right. But it’s still sad.