Catholic School! They stick to the basics. Lots of writing, spelling and grammar!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I teach writing and I’m a teacher in my twenties. I was also taught writing from elementary school through college. I attended public school. I don’t know why you don’t think your child hasn’t received any instruction in writing. I think it’s more likely that your child doesn’t enjoy it and doesn’t pay attention. At a fifth grade level he should be able to write a paragraph, yes. It seems like he needs some additional scaffolds, like a graphic organizer. Some kids get overwhelmed and need help organizing their ideas. I would reach out to his teacher with some specific questions about his needs and possible supports (ex I noticed he has trouble coming up with a topic sentence, he doesn’t know how to maintain parallel structure, he doesn’t consistently write full sentences, etc).

With all due respect, I am sick and tired of teachers throwing graphic organizers at him saying that's all he needs. You should know as a teacher that a graphic organizer will do nothing for him if he doesn't know basic sentence structure and spelling. You are right that he doesn't enjoy it, but one reason for that that he is really unsure of himself and doesn't know what to do. Who would enjoy it in that case? He is a hard worker, above-average reader, and great in math. By all means, he should be able to write. The school has failed him.

+1 Former teacher here and PP is spot on. I have seen this so many times. Especially with boys, though not exclusively. Writing teacher in your twenties, when over half the class needs the supports you describe, it's a sign that the curriculum needed to do more explicit teaching in these areas.

Thank you. That is exactly the case is my son's 5th-grade class. About half the class needs extra help with writing. I know because it's much harder to hide to his getting special services when everyone is on zoom and teams.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I teach writing and I’m a teacher in my twenties. I was also taught writing from elementary school through college. I attended public school. I don’t know why you don’t think your child hasn’t received any instruction in writing. I think it’s more likely that your child doesn’t enjoy it and doesn’t pay attention. At a fifth grade level he should be able to write a paragraph, yes. It seems like he needs some additional scaffolds, like a graphic organizer. Some kids get overwhelmed and need help organizing their ideas. I would reach out to his teacher with some specific questions about his needs and possible supports (ex I noticed he has trouble coming up with a topic sentence, he doesn’t know how to maintain parallel structure, he doesn’t consistently write full sentences, etc).

With all due respect, I am sick and tired of teachers throwing graphic organizers at him saying that's all he needs. You should know as a teacher that a graphic organizer will do nothing for him if he doesn't know basic sentence structure and spelling. You are right that he doesn't enjoy it, but one reason for that that he is really unsure of himself and doesn't know what to do. Who would enjoy it in that case? He is a hard worker, above-average reader, and great in math. By all means, he should be able to write. The school has failed him.

+1 Former teacher here and PP is spot on. I have seen this so many times. Especially with boys, though not exclusively. Writing teacher in your twenties, when over half the class needs the supports you describe, it's a sign that the curriculum needed to do more explicit teaching in these areas.

Anonymous wrote:I teach writing and I’m a teacher in my twenties. I was also taught writing from elementary school through college. I attended public school. I don’t know why you don’t think your child hasn’t received any instruction in writing. I think it’s more likely that your child doesn’t enjoy it and doesn’t pay attention. At a fifth grade level he should be able to write a paragraph, yes. It seems like he needs some additional scaffolds, like a graphic organizer. Some kids get overwhelmed and need help organizing their ideas. I would reach out to his teacher with some specific questions about his needs and possible supports (ex I noticed he has trouble coming up with a topic sentence, he doesn’t know how to maintain parallel structure, he doesn’t consistently write full sentences, etc).

With all due respect, I am sick and tired of teachers throwing graphic organizers at him saying that's all he needs. You should know as a teacher that a graphic organizer will do nothing for him if he doesn't know basic sentence structure and spelling. You are right that he doesn't enjoy it, but one reason for that that he is really unsure of himself and doesn't know what to do. Who would enjoy it in that case? He is a hard worker, above-average reader, and great in math. By all means, he should be able to write. The school has failed him.

I teach writing and I’m a teacher in my twenties. I was also taught writing from elementary school through college. I attended public school. I don’t know why you don’t think your child hasn’t received any instruction in writing. I think it’s more likely that your child doesn’t enjoy it and doesn’t pay attention. At a fifth grade level he should be able to write a paragraph, yes. It seems like he needs some additional scaffolds, like a graphic organizer. Some kids get overwhelmed and need help organizing their ideas. I would reach out to his teacher with some specific questions about his needs and possible supports (ex I noticed he has trouble coming up with a topic sentence, he doesn’t know how to maintain parallel structure, he doesn’t consistently write full sentences, etc).

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is why everyone should read A Well Trained Mind by Susan Wise Bauer - even if your children are in public school. The Romans discovered the Trivium - grammar stage, logic stage and rhetoric stage. It was abandoned during WW1 because the teaching profession didn’t thing immigrant children needed a classical education. Seems things haven’t changed much, eh? Elements of the grammar stage still were in schools in the 1970s public schools (as well as direct instruction). This has all been abandoned for decades and replaced with the latest educational fads - and needs to come back. The latest brain research has proven the Romans correct.

This is fascinating to me. As I mentioned above, I grew up in Eastern Europe during the communist time and received an excellent education. It was very classing in the sense that you had to simply memorize a lot of things. We had to memorize an entire poem every week and recite it in front of the whole class. I still remember my mom drilling me every week to make sure I learned it. I STILL remember some poems. We had to memorize multiplication and division, grammar rules, etc. I learned two alphabets in first grade and cursive. Our children are capable of so much more than the schools are offering them these days.

DP here. Bauer pulls from Dorothy Sayers Recovering the Lost Tools of Learning. The trivium makes a LOT of sense and is exactly why young kids should be taught facts (and also the reason the facts help). Logic and rhetoric make the inductive learning and peer projects more useful in middle and beyond.

Anonymous wrote:This is why everyone should read A Well Trained Mind by Susan Wise Bauer - even if your children are in public school. The Romans discovered the Trivium - grammar stage, logic stage and rhetoric stage. It was abandoned during WW1 because the teaching profession didn’t thing immigrant children needed a classical education. Seems things haven’t changed much, eh? Elements of the grammar stage still were in schools in the 1970s public schools (as well as direct instruction). This has all been abandoned for decades and replaced with the latest educational fads - and needs to come back. The latest brain research has proven the Romans correct.

This is fascinating to me. As I mentioned above, I grew up in Eastern Europe during the communist time and received an excellent education. It was very classing in the sense that you had to simply memorize a lot of things. We had to memorize an entire poem every week and recite it in front of the whole class. I still remember my mom drilling me every week to make sure I learned it. I STILL remember some poems. We had to memorize multiplication and division, grammar rules, etc. I learned two alphabets in first grade and cursive. Our children are capable of so much more than the schools are offering them these days.

This is why everyone should read A Well Trained Mind by Susan Wise Bauer - even if your children are in public school. The Romans discovered the Trivium - grammar stage, logic stage and rhetoric stage. It was abandoned during WW1 because the teaching profession didn’t thing immigrant children needed a classical education. Seems things haven’t changed much, eh? Elements of the grammar stage still were in schools in the 1970s public schools (as well as direct instruction). This has all been abandoned for decades and replaced with the latest educational fads - and needs to come back. The latest brain research has proven the Romans correct.

Anonymous wrote:FCPS elementary teacher here, and OP is correct that this is not taught as it should be. It started going downhill fast when they took spelling off the report card. I literally heard teacher colleagues say we didn’t have to teach spelling any more. The spelling books disappear. Now, in many schools, little kids are getting Fundations for phonics, but not everywhere.

Parents should contact their school board member about this, and should bring it up to the PTA, and ask teachers and principals to address their school’s plan.

They took away language arts books, too, where the kids used to practice capitalization and punctuation. I don’t even know if the sixth grade teachers realize the basics often aren’t taught in lower grades.

In grade level meetings, where teachers plan together, if it isn’t in the pacing guide, it isn’t included.

There was a rumor that at our school the third grade teachers had to ask the kindergarten and first grade teams to teach handwriting at all. The third grade teachers supposedly couldn't read their students' writing any more. After that rumor went around, handwriting started appearing in the homework packet. I also figured that the best way to fix the problem was to have later grade teachers complain, since FCPS's only constituency that matters seems to be teachers.

Exactly. I can tell you that it has already impacted my 5th grader very adversely. And since they are doing some assignments in a blog I can read his classmate's writing and it's also abysmal for the most part.



Agreed. You know what has made me crazy? Starting around 6th grade, they do a lot of "peer editing." As a supplement to editing by the teacher, that's a fine idea. But one of my kids had a teacher who did nothing BUT let the kids edit each other. It was appalling.

Are you sure the teacher wasn't also asking for revisions?

FCPS elementary teacher here, and OP is correct that this is not taught as it should be. It started going downhill fast when they took spelling off the report card. I literally heard teacher colleagues say we didn’t have to teach spelling any more. The spelling books disappear. Now, in many schools, little kids are getting Fundations for phonics, but not everywhere.

Parents should contact their school board member about this, and should bring it up to the PTA, and ask teachers and principals to address their school’s plan.

They took away language arts books, too, where the kids used to practice capitalization and punctuation. I don’t even know if the sixth grade teachers realize the basics often aren’t taught in lower grades.

In grade level meetings, where teachers plan together, if it isn’t in the pacing guide, it isn’t included.

I hope that as a result of so many people teaching their children from home full time we will have some reforms in education. Back to basics, I say.

NP with another thank you for the poster who mentioned the Rod & Staff books and other stuff at Milestone. Just spent 30 minutes choosing a bunch of different book sets for my 1st grader, who is not being taught phonics or proper handwriting skills, let alone grammar. I feel enthusiastic and hopeful about teaching at home for the first time in weeks.

I’ve had enough of craft projects and videos and this Flip Grid crap.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I appreciate rules (and I love grammar), too; however, in my opinion, the fact that they aren't learning it the way we did hasn't adversely impacted their ability to write. My older kids had to take a grammar quiz prior to the start of middle school and I was worried they would fail since they had never taken a formal grammar class; however, they aced it and now, as high schoolers, continue to write well.

Since you have high schoolers you have no idea what's happening in elementary schools right now. It has changed dramatically even in that short time frame.

Exactly. I can tell you that it has already impacted my 5th grader very adversely. And since they are doing some assignments in a blog I can read his classmate's writing and it's also abysmal for the most part.

Agreed. You know what has made me crazy? Starting around 6th grade, they do a lot of "peer editing." As a supplement to editing by the teacher, that's a fine idea. But one of my kids had a teacher who did nothing BUT let the kids edit each other. It was appalling.

My kid in MCPS 4th grade. Since he's been home, I've been supplementing with a writing and grammar program. For the first time, he is enjoying writing and is beginning to make the connections. "Expand your thoughts" means nothing to him. Giving him clear guidance such as use an adverb to expand your sentence. It provides visual imagery for the reader means something to him. Of course, now I am working with him on identifying parts of speech and sentence diagraming so adverb means something. He's also now able to understand that you just can't start talking about an idea in a subsequent paragraph without introducing the idea first.