Anonymous
Post 04/22/2020 10:45     Subject: Re:This is a blue state bug (for now at least)
Anonymous wrote:
If you look around the US, where are the deaths?

Let's look at the top 20 states in terms of deaths per 100k people.

LA, MI, PA. IN, GA, and MS.

Infection rates?

LA, MI, PA, SD, GA, IN, and MS.

Now maybe the governors of TN/SC/GA/FL opening too soon might lead to more outbreaks like the one around Albany NY or Rapid City SD, but as of now? It's the red states doing better on average.

TX is barely getting hit, with an infection rate 1/4 that of the national average and a death rate 1/10th the national average.

FL? Infection rate about half and a death rate about a third.

GA? Infection rate about two-thirds and a death rate about half.

What will the rejoinder be if TN, FL, GA, and SC re-open without massive amounts of illness and death by the end of May?

I mean I'm smart enough to realize it's the 2nd or 3rd inning of a 9 inning game, but come on, facts are facts right now. The red states are just doing better now.

I'm tired of hearing what a great job Governor Cuomo is doing. From where I can see it, he's presiding over infection rates TWICE that of Lombardy, and death rates that are approaching Lombardy. THAT's the model of our response right now?

I'd rather hear from Inslee, Newsome, or Brown (Oregon Gov). They seem to, well, actually be succeeding. The Northeast - and I include Maryland in this - needs to just stop telling red states what to do. They've failed to stop the virus, and to stop the deaths. Maybe the governors of MN or NM, too, they seem to be leading a decent blue state response to this virus.

This virus isn't some liberal avenger, punishing the dumb Trumpies for their dumb choices.

Either from density or from dumb luck, the blue states are getting slammed and the red states getting spared.

If it's density, maybe density isn't the solution to all our problems.


Stop analyzing this virus from a political perspective. The red states are, in general, more rural. The blue states are, in general, more urban. This has nothing to do with being an R or a D. There are many Rs in the D states and many Ds in the R states anyway. Whether a governor is an R or a D also is inconsequential to the disease. As you mentioned the governors of CA, WA, and OR did a good job (all Ds). Politics does not matter with a virus. If we make it matter, we are making a huge mistake. This is the mistake of the governor of Georgia.




Anonymous
Post 04/22/2020 10:39     Subject: This is a blue state bug (for now at least)
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Michigan has a HUGE 2nd home population, both among natives and people from out-of-state. These 2nd homes are in remote parts of the state with few hospital beds, even fewer doctors, and not enough food to feed a swelling off-season population. Whitmer protected the lives of those rural full time residents by banning the 2nd home owners. Those fulltime rural folks do NOT want the seasonal home owners arriving - the Mayors of the small towns asked Whitmer to keep them out!

The only people complaining about this are the wealthy conservatives who live downstate and showed up to those protests in their $75K SUVs and luxury pick-up trucks. Asses.


So, Whitmer made it unlawful for people to go to their own homes. Got it.
And, it's ok for them to travel north to visit a state park, but not their own home? Arbitrary.


Of course, there is some arbitrariness here. Figuring out what businesses should stay open and on what conditions is nothing more than a serious of tough decisions. I no doubt would disagree with whatever decisions you would make, and I no doubt would call your decisions arbitrary and unfair. Get a life. A few Governors are working hard to make these tough decisions, including in OH, MD, MI, CA, NY, etc.


And, when the decisions are arbitrary and unable to be justified, as Whitmer's are, then the people who are being asked to conform to these mandates question them and demand explanation.
This is precisely what has happened.
And, then her decision to allow a democratic organization to collect tracing information on others was another huge misstep. She reversed that after she was caught.
Anonymous
Post 04/22/2020 10:39     Subject: This is a blue state bug (for now at least)
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:If you look around the US, where are the deaths?

Let's look at the top 20 states in terms of deaths per 100k people.

LA, MI, PA. IN, GA, and MS.

Infection rates?

LA, MI, PA, SD, GA, IN, and MS.

Now maybe the governors of TN/SC/GA/FL opening too soon might lead to more outbreaks like the one around Albany NY or Rapid City SD, but as of now? It's the red states doing better on average.

TX is barely getting hit, with an infection rate 1/4 that of the national average and a death rate 1/10th the national average.

FL? Infection rate about half and a death rate about a third.

GA? Infection rate about two-thirds and a death rate about half.

What will the rejoinder be if TN, FL, GA, and SC re-open without massive amounts of illness and death by the end of May?

I mean I'm smart enough to realize it's the 2nd or 3rd inning of a 9 inning game, but come on, facts are facts right now. The red states are just doing better now.

I'm tired of hearing what a great job Governor Cuomo is doing. From where I can see it, he's presiding over infection rates TWICE that of Lombardy, and death rates that are approaching Lombardy. THAT's the model of our response right now?

I'd rather hear from Inslee, Newsome, or Brown (Oregon Gov). They seem to, well, actually be succeeding. The Northeast - and I include Maryland in this - needs to just stop telling red states what to do. They've failed to stop the virus, and to stop the deaths. Maybe the governors of MN or NM, too, they seem to be leading a decent blue state response to this virus.

This virus isn't some liberal avenger, punishing the dumb Trumpies for their dumb choices.

Either from density or from dumb luck, the blue states are getting slammed and the red states getting spared.

If it's density, maybe density isn't the solution to all our problems.



What obviously is missing here is facts. The virus obviously did not reach all states at the same time or to the same extent. But we do know the virus started in China and quickly found its way to a few US cities, plus random assisted living or nursing homes and a few random smaller towns. You are relying on the false assumption that it will never each your favorite state or town. That simply is not true. What is true is that the lockdowns in CA, NY and elsewhere and the rapid decline in US travel have dramatically reduced the spread of the virus. So, NY and CA are suffering for the benefit of all. The fake "pro-life" crowd misses the point, again. Orange Man's biggest failure is the lack of adequate testing across the country. We need more testing that is accurate and broadly done. Testing provides better info that can be fed into decision making about all sorts of things, including re-opening. If there were better and more extensive testing, you could make better guesses on the scope of the virus in a given state, and adopt an aggressive testing, tracing and isolation approach along with reopening.



OP stated the facts, while you are making stuff up.

Drop the paranoia. Analyze the facts.


Your understanding of the facts and the nature of this threat is appalling. But I will die knowing that I did not vote for President who saw more Americans die from the virus than died in the Vietnam War, in part to his basic incompetence. You perhaps view him as a successful businessman. What an illusion?
Anonymous
Post 04/22/2020 10:37     Subject: This is a blue state bug (for now at least)
Density and late arrival of infections definitely play a bigger factor than the weather, testing, or really anything else.

That's why it's important for the densest cities to close down completely as rapidly and as early as possible. Similarly, dense indoors spaces where people congregate closely need to remain shut - churches, gyms, schools, arenas, theaters, museums, salons, and auditoriums.

Close congregations of people - whether in the form of a dense city or an indoor space where people gather - is the problem right now that needs to solved until we can test widely and develop a vaccine.

I think you'll see landscapers, other outdoor workers (pest control, pool maintenance), low density service industry (car repair), and food spots open up soon. They will just need to ensure they have the protocols in place to maintain strict social distancing.
Anonymous
Post 04/22/2020 10:33     Subject: This is a blue state bug (for now at least)
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Michigan has a HUGE 2nd home population, both among natives and people from out-of-state. These 2nd homes are in remote parts of the state with few hospital beds, even fewer doctors, and not enough food to feed a swelling off-season population. Whitmer protected the lives of those rural full time residents by banning the 2nd home owners. Those fulltime rural folks do NOT want the seasonal home owners arriving - the Mayors of the small towns asked Whitmer to keep them out!

The only people complaining about this are the wealthy conservatives who live downstate and showed up to those protests in their $75K SUVs and luxury pick-up trucks. Asses.


So, Whitmer made it unlawful for people to go to their own homes. Got it.
And, it's ok for them to travel north to visit a state park, but not their own home? Arbitrary.


Of course, there is some arbitrariness here. Figuring out what businesses should stay open and on what conditions is nothing more than a serious of tough decisions. I no doubt would disagree with whatever decisions you would make, and I no doubt would call your decisions arbitrary and unfair. Get a life. A few Governors are working hard to make these tough decisions, including in OH, MD, MI, CA, NY, etc.
Anonymous
Post 04/22/2020 10:33     Subject: This is a blue state bug (for now at least)
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:If you look around the US, where are the deaths?

Let's look at the top 20 states in terms of deaths per 100k people.

LA, MI, PA. IN, GA, and MS.

Infection rates?

LA, MI, PA, SD, GA, IN, and MS.

Now maybe the governors of TN/SC/GA/FL opening too soon might lead to more outbreaks like the one around Albany NY or Rapid City SD, but as of now? It's the red states doing better on average.

TX is barely getting hit, with an infection rate 1/4 that of the national average and a death rate 1/10th the national average.

FL? Infection rate about half and a death rate about a third.

GA? Infection rate about two-thirds and a death rate about half.

What will the rejoinder be if TN, FL, GA, and SC re-open without massive amounts of illness and death by the end of May?

I mean I'm smart enough to realize it's the 2nd or 3rd inning of a 9 inning game, but come on, facts are facts right now. The red states are just doing better now.

I'm tired of hearing what a great job Governor Cuomo is doing. From where I can see it, he's presiding over infection rates TWICE that of Lombardy, and death rates that are approaching Lombardy. THAT's the model of our response right now?

I'd rather hear from Inslee, Newsome, or Brown (Oregon Gov). They seem to, well, actually be succeeding. The Northeast - and I include Maryland in this - needs to just stop telling red states what to do. They've failed to stop the virus, and to stop the deaths. Maybe the governors of MN or NM, too, they seem to be leading a decent blue state response to this virus.

This virus isn't some liberal avenger, punishing the dumb Trumpies for their dumb choices.

Either from density or from dumb luck, the blue states are getting slammed and the red states getting spared.

If it's density, maybe density isn't the solution to all our problems.



What obviously is missing here is facts. The virus obviously did not reach all states at the same time or to the same extent. But we do know the virus started in China and quickly found its way to a few US cities, plus random assisted living or nursing homes and a few random smaller towns. You are relying on the false assumption that it will never each your favorite state or town. That simply is not true. What is true is that the lockdowns in CA, NY and elsewhere and the rapid decline in US travel have dramatically reduced the spread of the virus. So, NY and CA are suffering for the benefit of all. The fake "pro-life" crowd misses the point, again. Orange Man's biggest failure is the lack of adequate testing across the country. We need more testing that is accurate and broadly done. Testing provides better info that can be fed into decision making about all sorts of things, including re-opening. If there were better and more extensive testing, you could make better guesses on the scope of the virus in a given state, and adopt an aggressive testing, tracing and isolation approach along with reopening.



OP stated the facts, while you are making stuff up.

Drop the paranoia. Analyze the facts.
Anonymous
Post 04/22/2020 10:30     Subject: This is a blue state bug (for now at least)
Anonymous wrote:If you look around the US, where are the deaths?

Let's look at the top 20 states in terms of deaths per 100k people.

LA, MI, PA. IN, GA, and MS.

Infection rates?

LA, MI, PA, SD, GA, IN, and MS.

Now maybe the governors of TN/SC/GA/FL opening too soon might lead to more outbreaks like the one around Albany NY or Rapid City SD, but as of now? It's the red states doing better on average.

TX is barely getting hit, with an infection rate 1/4 that of the national average and a death rate 1/10th the national average.

FL? Infection rate about half and a death rate about a third.

GA? Infection rate about two-thirds and a death rate about half.

What will the rejoinder be if TN, FL, GA, and SC re-open without massive amounts of illness and death by the end of May?

I mean I'm smart enough to realize it's the 2nd or 3rd inning of a 9 inning game, but come on, facts are facts right now. The red states are just doing better now.

I'm tired of hearing what a great job Governor Cuomo is doing. From where I can see it, he's presiding over infection rates TWICE that of Lombardy, and death rates that are approaching Lombardy. THAT's the model of our response right now?

I'd rather hear from Inslee, Newsome, or Brown (Oregon Gov). They seem to, well, actually be succeeding. The Northeast - and I include Maryland in this - needs to just stop telling red states what to do. They've failed to stop the virus, and to stop the deaths. Maybe the governors of MN or NM, too, they seem to be leading a decent blue state response to this virus.

This virus isn't some liberal avenger, punishing the dumb Trumpies for their dumb choices.

Either from density or from dumb luck, the blue states are getting slammed and the red states getting spared.

If it's density, maybe density isn't the solution to all our problems.



Clap clap clap clap clap clap
Anonymous
Post 04/22/2020 10:29     Subject: This is a blue state bug (for now at least)
Anonymous wrote:If you look around the US, where are the deaths?

Let's look at the top 20 states in terms of deaths per 100k people.

LA, MI, PA. IN, GA, and MS.

Infection rates?

LA, MI, PA, SD, GA, IN, and MS.

Now maybe the governors of TN/SC/GA/FL opening too soon might lead to more outbreaks like the one around Albany NY or Rapid City SD, but as of now? It's the red states doing better on average.

TX is barely getting hit, with an infection rate 1/4 that of the national average and a death rate 1/10th the national average.

FL? Infection rate about half and a death rate about a third.

GA? Infection rate about two-thirds and a death rate about half.

What will the rejoinder be if TN, FL, GA, and SC re-open without massive amounts of illness and death by the end of May?

I mean I'm smart enough to realize it's the 2nd or 3rd inning of a 9 inning game, but come on, facts are facts right now. The red states are just doing better now.

I'm tired of hearing what a great job Governor Cuomo is doing. From where I can see it, he's presiding over infection rates TWICE that of Lombardy, and death rates that are approaching Lombardy. THAT's the model of our response right now?

I'd rather hear from Inslee, Newsome, or Brown (Oregon Gov). They seem to, well, actually be succeeding. The Northeast - and I include Maryland in this - needs to just stop telling red states what to do. They've failed to stop the virus, and to stop the deaths. Maybe the governors of MN or NM, too, they seem to be leading a decent blue state response to this virus.

This virus isn't some liberal avenger, punishing the dumb Trumpies for their dumb choices.

Either from density or from dumb luck, the blue states are getting slammed and the red states getting spared.

If it's density, maybe density isn't the solution to all our problems.



What obviously is missing here is facts. The virus obviously did not reach all states at the same time or to the same extent. But we do know the virus started in China and quickly found its way to a few US cities, plus random assisted living or nursing homes and a few random smaller towns. You are relying on the false assumption that it will never each your favorite state or town. That simply is not true. What is true is that the lockdowns in CA, NY and elsewhere and the rapid decline in US travel have dramatically reduced the spread of the virus. So, NY and CA are suffering for the benefit of all. The fake "pro-life" crowd misses the point, again. Orange Man's biggest failure is the lack of adequate testing across the country. We need more testing that is accurate and broadly done. Testing provides better info that can be fed into decision making about all sorts of things, including re-opening. If there were better and more extensive testing, you could make better guesses on the scope of the virus in a given state, and adopt an aggressive testing, tracing and isolation approach along with reopening.
Anonymous
Post 04/22/2020 10:23     Subject: This is a blue state bug (for now at least)
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Michigan has a HUGE 2nd home population, both among natives and people from out-of-state. These 2nd homes are in remote parts of the state with few hospital beds, even fewer doctors, and not enough food to feed a swelling off-season population. Whitmer protected the lives of those rural full time residents by banning the 2nd home owners. Those fulltime rural folks do NOT want the seasonal home owners arriving - the Mayors of the small towns asked Whitmer to keep them out!

The only people complaining about this are the wealthy conservatives who live downstate and showed up to those protests in their $75K SUVs and luxury pick-up trucks. Asses.


So, Whitmer made it unlawful for people to go to their own homes. Got it.
And, it's ok for them to travel north to visit a state park, but not their own home? Arbitrary.


Stay at your primary residence. This isn't that hard to understand.
Anonymous
Post 04/22/2020 10:19     Subject: This is a blue state bug (for now at least)
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I would like my point about lionizing Cuomo and Whitmer too early to stand, though. Their actions during the outbreak WILL be scrutinized, and it seems Whitmer's been a smidge more arbitrary about what is and isn't allowed during her states's shutdown (don't get me wrong, there's been some conservatives trying to make her look bad, but there is enough there there.)


No. Whitmer hasn’t been extra arbitrary or strict. Ohio has been possibly more restrictive, but you didn’t see LIBERATE OHIO on Trump’s Twitter feed.
Her state exploded, and she did what was needed. They need to stop whining about boats and seeds. It’s not even the time of year for that stuff.
- Ohioan


She was very arbitrary.
Requiring that items within a store that is open remain off-limits for purchase?
Not allowing residents to travel within the state between homes?

Where is the science in any of that?



The only science we have is social distancing and locking down.
Infected people traveling to other locations and spreading infection isn’t a controversial idea. If DeWine had been staring down similar numbers, he would have tightened up even more. It’s the only tool they have.


People going from one home to another home? This is not exactly "other locations."
Then, there is the whole, "You can go kayaking or canoeing but no motor boats." What is that rationale?
And, why cordon off areas in stores that are open?
Yes, it's arbitrary.


And when you get to your second home, you go the grocery etc...
This shouldn’t be so hard for you to understand.


Now, do the motor boat ban and the cordoning off the items in stores.
Anonymous
Post 04/22/2020 10:18     Subject: Re:This is a blue state bug (for now at least)
Anonymous wrote:
maybe density isn't the solution to all our problems.


I’m lost. Who was it who said “density is the solution to all our problems”?



I thought the question was an unintentional joke. It certainly made me laugh. "Density" is definitely the problem.
Anonymous
Post 04/22/2020 10:18     Subject: This is a blue state bug (for now at least)
Anonymous wrote:Michigan has a HUGE 2nd home population, both among natives and people from out-of-state. These 2nd homes are in remote parts of the state with few hospital beds, even fewer doctors, and not enough food to feed a swelling off-season population. Whitmer protected the lives of those rural full time residents by banning the 2nd home owners. Those fulltime rural folks do NOT want the seasonal home owners arriving - the Mayors of the small towns asked Whitmer to keep them out!

The only people complaining about this are the wealthy conservatives who live downstate and showed up to those protests in their $75K SUVs and luxury pick-up trucks. Asses.


So, Whitmer made it unlawful for people to go to their own homes. Got it.
And, it's ok for them to travel north to visit a state park, but not their own home? Arbitrary.
Anonymous
Post 04/22/2020 10:16     Subject: This is a blue state bug (for now at least)
Anonymous wrote:Michigan has a HUGE 2nd home population, both among natives and people from out-of-state. These 2nd homes are in remote parts of the state with few hospital beds, even fewer doctors, and not enough food to feed a swelling off-season population. Whitmer protected the lives of those rural full time residents by banning the 2nd home owners. Those fulltime rural folks do NOT want the seasonal home owners arriving - the Mayors of the small towns asked Whitmer to keep them out!

The only people complaining about this are the wealthy conservatives who live downstate and showed up to those protests in their $75K SUVs and luxury pick-up trucks. Asses.


+1 thank you
Anonymous
Post 04/22/2020 10:16     Subject: This is a blue state bug (for now at least)
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I would like my point about lionizing Cuomo and Whitmer too early to stand, though. Their actions during the outbreak WILL be scrutinized, and it seems Whitmer's been a smidge more arbitrary about what is and isn't allowed during her states's shutdown (don't get me wrong, there's been some conservatives trying to make her look bad, but there is enough there there.)


No. Whitmer hasn’t been extra arbitrary or strict. Ohio has been possibly more restrictive, but you didn’t see LIBERATE OHIO on Trump’s Twitter feed.
Her state exploded, and she did what was needed. They need to stop whining about boats and seeds. It’s not even the time of year for that stuff.
- Ohioan


She was very arbitrary.
Requiring that items within a store that is open remain off-limits for purchase?
Not allowing residents to travel within the state between homes?

Where is the science in any of that?



The only science we have is social distancing and locking down.
Infected people traveling to other locations and spreading infection isn’t a controversial idea. If DeWine had been staring down similar numbers, he would have tightened up even more. It’s the only tool they have.


People going from one home to another home? This is not exactly "other locations."
Then, there is the whole, "You can go kayaking or canoeing but no motor boats." What is that rationale?
And, why cordon off areas in stores that are open?
Yes, it's arbitrary.


And when you get to your second home, you go the grocery etc...
This shouldn’t be so hard for you to understand.
Anonymous
Post 04/22/2020 10:11     Subject: This is a blue state bug (for now at least)
Michigan has a HUGE 2nd home population, both among natives and people from out-of-state. These 2nd homes are in remote parts of the state with few hospital beds, even fewer doctors, and not enough food to feed a swelling off-season population. Whitmer protected the lives of those rural full time residents by banning the 2nd home owners. Those fulltime rural folks do NOT want the seasonal home owners arriving - the Mayors of the small towns asked Whitmer to keep them out!

The only people complaining about this are the wealthy conservatives who live downstate and showed up to those protests in their $75K SUVs and luxury pick-up trucks. Asses.