Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How can someone watch their significant other burn down their relationship for a fling or affair with a new person and...be ok with it and stay?

What goes through their mind?

I think it's tricky.

I think a lot of cheaters are narcissists and use gaslighting over the years and it becomes almost like emotional abuse so that their spouse loses confidence or becomes depressed. They can be manipulative and charming and when caught act genuinely upset and tell all kinds of lies and have a 'honeymoon phase'. They beg, they cry, they swear it will never happen again and it was not love. It was a big mistake and they are so, so, so, so sorry. They do therapy and show that they are serious. Some times they are, sometimes they aren't and they do it again.
Now- it's the second time that would be a deal breaker for good.

I think some women without their own financial income are worried about losing a lifestyle. They don't want to lose $.

Then, some do not want to have to give up some holidays and weekends with their kids. They feel like they have more control over their children than what a partner's future partner's/boyfriends/girlfriends could inflict.

+1. I think my husband has cheated. I'm not sure, but I don't really care. We haven't had sex in several years and our relationship is just sharing the workload at this point. What I do care about is that he's been an emotionally abusive gas-lighter. I don't agree when people say that being cheated on is the worst thing that could possibly happen. Obviously their relationships are much better than mine. The cheating is the least of it from my perspective.

So right now I need to figure what I'm going to do. I have a serious, deteriorating health condition and I'm very afraid for my employment future. Husband isn't a high earner. I've stayed thus far because I don't want to lose being with my kids every day. It would be very difficult to take care of the young ones on my own every day without a break and I'm afraid to split custody with him. I'm very concerned about my husband's ability to care for them when it's his turn. He doesn't have good judgment or patience. I have to step in even when I can barely walk because he yells and acts like a jerk. I'm also terrified of what type of person he might start dating or marry. His own mom was an evil stepmother to his dad's first child from a previous marriage, and he's so selfish that I think all he would care about is how new gf/wife treats him not his existing kids just like his dad did. Also, I couldn't afford to live in the good school district with a not too horrible commute on just what I earn. The kids are doing so well now since we moved here, and they weren't in their previous schools.

So I guess the reason that I'm still here is a combo of fear of not having kids full time, fear of handing them over to husband to parent solo for any period of time, and finances. Once the kids are grown and independent, I plan to divorce. Once it's just myself then I can live in a small, inexpensive place in a bad school district. Not all of us are staying for the expensive wardrobe or lavish vacations. I don't have that now.

I'm trying my best to make it a pleasant environment for the kids. Still, I know it's not a great environment and I'm trying to figure out the least of the evils here. Just one perspective here. Good luck to everyone else trying to find their way.

I'm sorry you're dealing with this, PP.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I think the abusive aspect of cheating is under-recognized. I went to a therapist after the cheating. The therapist did not see or validate the abuse. I think people really underestimate the societal pressure to stay together. All the “self-help” at the time focused on finding out what was wrong in the marriage that caused the affair. This is a blame-the-victim approach. Infidelity also very much follows the cycle of domestic abuse - tension, release, making up period, etc.

It wasn’t until I read a copy of The Battered Woman by Lenore Walker (a classic on physical domestic abuse) that I recognized the similarities. Now some in the counseling industry recognize repeated infidelity can cause complex PTSD in the victim spouse.

In my case, I did not leave immediately because I had very little kids, and I was in grad school. DH also told lies about the context of the cheating that were very believable and it took me a significant period of time to unravel what was really happening. Once I knew, I needed time to plan for my stability. As I did that it became clear that then DH was not only cheating but mentally unwell and drinking and using prescription drugs inappropriately. So, I took more time to exit in a way that I could have full physical custody. From the outside it looks like I “stayed” after the cheating, but most of that “staying” time was unravelling the real facts about what was going on and plotting my escape.

It’s always interesting to me how many people want to look at that time and pathologize me as “insecure” or “depressed”. The truth is that the cultural, economic and legal aspects of society are currently constructed to keep women and their kids together with men regardless of the quality of that relationship - intact family units are prized above all else. That makes it very difficult to get out.

It's funny that you should say that because I feel the opposite. I stayed with my husband after his adultery come to light. I now regret sharing this information with my friends in my initially disoriented state because there is a strong cultural imperative to leave the cheater, and by extension there is judgment visited on women who do stay. They are branded insecure, not totally loving themselves, lacking in self respect, coming from unstable families and who knows what else. You can see it clearly coming across DCUM commentary on these threads. The unspoken rule seems to be that infidelity needs to be unforgivable, and if you forgive it or learn to live with this experience, then you yourself must be broken or deficient in some way. There is no allowance for the reality that staying may be a rational, unforced choice. And this pressure is as unforgiving as any other.

Since I've gone through that, I now advise any friend who is dealing with this to be really cautious in how they share this information and with whom. Tell a couple of trusted friends, tell your sister but hold off on everything else. It is easy to overshare in the beginning. I tell them that whatever they decide needs to be their choice, without regard to "what will my friends now think of me".

Every human is broken or deficient in some way. Can you explain the below further? Do you really believe a confident, self-loving woman would stay with someone who publicly humiliated her, disrespected their family unit, etc?

They are branded insecure, not totally loving themselves, lacking in self respect, coming from unstable families and who knows what else. You can see it clearly coming across DCUM commentary on these threads. The unspoken rule seems to be that infidelity needs to be unforgivable, and if you forgive it or learn to live with this experience, then you yourself must be broken or deficient in some way.

^ trust me when I say this: his behavior indicates he’s most likely cheating. Typical gaslighting behavior. Sounds exactly like my spouse before I accidentally stumbled upon evidence of an affair

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How can someone watch their significant other burn down their relationship for a fling or affair with a new person and...be ok with it and stay?

What goes through their mind?

I think it's tricky.

I think a lot of cheaters are narcissists and use gaslighting over the years and it becomes almost like emotional abuse so that their spouse loses confidence or becomes depressed. They can be manipulative and charming and when caught act genuinely upset and tell all kinds of lies and have a 'honeymoon phase'. They beg, they cry, they swear it will never happen again and it was not love. It was a big mistake and they are so, so, so, so sorry. They do therapy and show that they are serious. Some times they are, sometimes they aren't and they do it again.
Now- it's the second time that would be a deal breaker for good.

I think some women without their own financial income are worried about losing a lifestyle. They don't want to lose $.

Then, some do not want to have to give up some holidays and weekends with their kids. They feel like they have more control over their children than what a partner's future partner's/boyfriends/girlfriends could inflict.

+1. I think my husband has cheated. I'm not sure, but I don't really care. We haven't had sex in several years and our relationship is just sharing the workload at this point. What I do care about is that he's been an emotionally abusive gas-lighter. I don't agree when people say that being cheated on is the worst thing that could possibly happen. Obviously their relationships are much better than mine. The cheating is the least of it from my perspective.

So right now I need to figure what I'm going to do. I have a serious, deteriorating health condition and I'm very afraid for my employment future. Husband isn't a high earner. I've stayed thus far because I don't want to lose being with my kids every day. It would be very difficult to take care of the young ones on my own every day without a break and I'm afraid to split custody with him. I'm very concerned about my husband's ability to care for them when it's his turn. He doesn't have good judgment or patience. I have to step in even when I can barely walk because he yells and acts like a jerk. I'm also terrified of what type of person he might start dating or marry. His own mom was an evil stepmother to his dad's first child from a previous marriage, and he's so selfish that I think all he would care about is how new gf/wife treats him not his existing kids just like his dad did. Also, I couldn't afford to live in the good school district with a not too horrible commute on just what I earn. The kids are doing so well now since we moved here, and they weren't in their previous schools.

So I guess the reason that I'm still here is a combo of fear of not having kids full time, fear of handing them over to husband to parent solo for any period of time, and finances. Once the kids are grown and independent, I plan to divorce. Once it's just myself then I can live in a small, inexpensive place in a bad school district. Not all of us are staying for the expensive wardrobe or lavish vacations. I don't have that now.

I'm trying my best to make it a pleasant environment for the kids. Still, I know it's not a great environment and I'm trying to figure out the least of the evils here. Just one perspective here. Good luck to everyone else trying to find their way.

^^^

PS - my biggest issue with him was the dishonesty of hiding the affairs he had when he was cheating on me. Him being honest with me going forward was a huge component of my being able to forgive him and understand him and develop compassion for him.

I haven't read through all the responses, so I'm not sure if my story is unique or someone above has gone through something similar.

I am American. My husband is European, from a country where having mistresses is so normal that they show up to funerals and stand alongside the wives (okay, I'll tell you in case you haven't guess, he's from France). His grandfathers had mistresses. His father had a long affair. it is what he grew up seeing an it was normalized.

When we were first dating, about a year into it I found out he was sleeping with at least 4-5 different women the whole time we'd been together. I was devastated and broke up with him.

A few months after we broke up he called me and wanted to talk. He's now my husband, so it goes without saying that he was someone I deeply loved (I did then and I do now). Because I loved him so much I met up with him and he spilled his heart out to me about his wants and needs. In addition for him growing up thinking affairs were normal, he also had some real trauma - his mom had an affair and left his dad when he was only 2 years old. He has real abandonment issues when it comes to women - started with his mom and self-perpetuated by him having affairs and cheating on every girlfriend he ever had.

So....I thought a lot about it and really tried to understand his perspective. I started to understand that him sleeping with other women didn't mean that he didn't love me. It fulfilled a deep need of his to know that he could always find someone else if he were abandoned.

So, we got back together. And damn if we didn't get married not long after. Happily so. I told him i didn't mind if he had affairs, and for the first few years he did. And then things started to slow down and taper off. Now he hasn't been with another woman in probably 6-7 years. I wouldn't mind if he did, because I understand the reason behind it. But I think he's so confident in my love for him and the strength of our marriage that maybe his fears of abandonment are fading away.

We are really happy together. We laugh all the time. We have a great friendship and a great sex life. He's my best friend. None of this would have happened if I hadn't opened my mind up to his cheating and tried to see things from his perspective.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I think the abusive aspect of cheating is under-recognized. I went to a therapist after the cheating. The therapist did not see or validate the abuse. I think people really underestimate the societal pressure to stay together. All the “self-help” at the time focused on finding out what was wrong in the marriage that caused the affair. This is a blame-the-victim approach. Infidelity also very much follows the cycle of domestic abuse - tension, release, making up period, etc.

It wasn’t until I read a copy of The Battered Woman by Lenore Walker (a classic on physical domestic abuse) that I recognized the similarities. Now some in the counseling industry recognize repeated infidelity can cause complex PTSD in the victim spouse.

In my case, I did not leave immediately because I had very little kids, and I was in grad school. DH also told lies about the context of the cheating that were very believable and it took me a significant period of time to unravel what was really happening. Once I knew, I needed time to plan for my stability. As I did that it became clear that then DH was not only cheating but mentally unwell and drinking and using prescription drugs inappropriately. So, I took more time to exit in a way that I could have full physical custody. From the outside it looks like I “stayed” after the cheating, but most of that “staying” time was unravelling the real facts about what was going on and plotting my escape.

It’s always interesting to me how many people want to look at that time and pathologize me as “insecure” or “depressed”. The truth is that the cultural, economic and legal aspects of society are currently constructed to keep women and their kids together with men regardless of the quality of that relationship - intact family units are prized above all else. That makes it very difficult to get out.

It's funny that you should say that because I feel the opposite. I stayed with my husband after his adultery come to light. I now regret sharing this information with my friends in my initially disoriented state because there is a strong cultural imperative to leave the cheater, and by extension there is judgment visited on women who do stay. They are branded insecure, not totally loving themselves, lacking in self respect, coming from unstable families and who knows what else. You can see it clearly coming across DCUM commentary on these threads. The unspoken rule seems to be that infidelity needs to be unforgivable, and if you forgive it or learn to live with this experience, then you yourself must be broken or deficient in some way. There is no allowance for the reality that staying may be a rational, unforced choice. And this pressure is as unforgiving as any other.

Since I've gone through that, I now advise any friend who is dealing with this to be really cautious in how they share this information and with whom. Tell a couple of trusted friends, tell your sister but hold off on everything else. It is easy to overshare in the beginning. I tell them that whatever they decide needs to be their choice, without regard to "what will my friends now think of me".

100% agree. When my XW and I first separated, I told 3 people - my parents and my brother. I was silent for the next year even though my ex and I no longer lived together. After a certain point I told my best friend. It wasn't until I knew I was headed for divorce that I told a few other people. I NEVER got into the gory details - only the high level. But, I didn't have to - enough people were around my ex and AP that knew what the deal was and the rumors just spread. Not much I could do about that.

All that said, I think there's a balance b/w what you can share and what you shouldn't. I don't support to keep everything bottled up indefinitely. Only you know when is the right time to share more info. Sadly, for me, rumors spread so much that I'm sure my kids will eventually find out.

Anonymous wrote:
I think the abusive aspect of cheating is under-recognized. I went to a therapist after the cheating. The therapist did not see or validate the abuse. I think people really underestimate the societal pressure to stay together. All the “self-help” at the time focused on finding out what was wrong in the marriage that caused the affair. This is a blame-the-victim approach. Infidelity also very much follows the cycle of domestic abuse - tension, release, making up period, etc.

It wasn’t until I read a copy of The Battered Woman by Lenore Walker (a classic on physical domestic abuse) that I recognized the similarities. Now some in the counseling industry recognize repeated infidelity can cause complex PTSD in the victim spouse.

In my case, I did not leave immediately because I had very little kids, and I was in grad school. DH also told lies about the context of the cheating that were very believable and it took me a significant period of time to unravel what was really happening. Once I knew, I needed time to plan for my stability. As I did that it became clear that then DH was not only cheating but mentally unwell and drinking and using prescription drugs inappropriately. So, I took more time to exit in a way that I could have full physical custody. From the outside it looks like I “stayed” after the cheating, but most of that “staying” time was unravelling the real facts about what was going on and plotting my escape.

It’s always interesting to me how many people want to look at that time and pathologize me as “insecure” or “depressed”. The truth is that the cultural, economic and legal aspects of society are currently constructed to keep women and their kids together with men regardless of the quality of that relationship - intact family units are prized above all else. That makes it very difficult to get out.

It's funny that you should say that because I feel the opposite. I stayed with my husband after his adultery come to light. I now regret sharing this information with my friends in my initially disoriented state because there is a strong cultural imperative to leave the cheater, and by extension there is judgment visited on women who do stay. They are branded insecure, not totally loving themselves, lacking in self respect, coming from unstable families and who knows what else. You can see it clearly coming across DCUM commentary on these threads. The unspoken rule seems to be that infidelity needs to be unforgivable, and if you forgive it or learn to live with this experience, then you yourself must be broken or deficient in some way. There is no allowance for the reality that staying may be a rational, unforced choice. And this pressure is as unforgiving as any other.

Since I've gone through that, I now advise any friend who is dealing with this to be really cautious in how they share this information and with whom. Tell a couple of trusted friends, tell your sister but hold off on everything else. It is easy to overshare in the beginning. I tell them that whatever they decide needs to be their choice, without regard to "what will my friends now think of me".

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There's no one size fits all solution. It really depends on the people involved and the situation.

Dh has been a great partner for the past 20+ years. If he had a mid life crisis and cheated. But, he was remorseful and clearly willing to do what it takes to stay in the marriage, then infidelity would be forgivable.

With that being said, if dh had been a bad partner for 20 years, then I wouldn't stay. In that case, infidelity is really the straw that broke the camel's back.

There are absolutely worst things than sexual infidelity like abuse, addiction, and financial infidelity. If dh ever raised a hand to me, was an addict, or did something irresponsible with our money/hid finances from me, I would walk away in a heartbeat. These things have a much more direct and harmful impact on my quality of life.

Would it matter if it was a 2 or 3 year affair vs just a fling with a stranger on a work trip?

I think the how, why, what, length of time, etc. matters greatly personally so my decisions would be different depending on the type of transgression.

Of course that would matter. It's like asking if you would leave your spouse if they raised their voice with you. On rare occasion, no. All the time? Yes.

Yes, a short term affair or ONS is far more forgivable than years of deception. But again, that's just me. Everyone is entitled to their dealbreakers. I wouldn't stay with a financially irresponsible spouse, or one that was deep into Alex Jones conspiracy theories. To each their own.

agree. The ONS/mistake issue is much easier to move past than an emotional attachment. For me, it was both - physical + emotional to the point where my ex spouse told me she was in love with AP. After about a year of trying to reconcile, I was done - empty. After the initial ONS, I was on board to forgive/work on our marriage but when the continued emotional attachment kept on, it was too hard to overcome.

How are you now?

There are different kinds of infidelity. Men look at a wife cheating as a mark against their manhood and sexual skills. Women will overlook one episode but worry about a husband falling in love with someone else.

I have no idea if DH has ever cheated and if it was a one time thing, would rather not know. If he did and I found out, it would bring the marriage to a very dark place, though not sure if divorce would enter the picture.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There's no one size fits all solution. It really depends on the people involved and the situation.

Dh has been a great partner for the past 20+ years. If he had a mid life crisis and cheated. But, he was remorseful and clearly willing to do what it takes to stay in the marriage, then infidelity would be forgivable.

With that being said, if dh had been a bad partner for 20 years, then I wouldn't stay. In that case, infidelity is really the straw that broke the camel's back.

There are absolutely worst things than sexual infidelity like abuse, addiction, and financial infidelity. If dh ever raised a hand to me, was an addict, or did something irresponsible with our money/hid finances from me, I would walk away in a heartbeat. These things have a much more direct and harmful impact on my quality of life.

Would it matter if it was a 2 or 3 year affair vs just a fling with a stranger on a work trip?

I think the how, why, what, length of time, etc. matters greatly personally so my decisions would be different depending on the type of transgression.

Of course that would matter. It's like asking if you would leave your spouse if they raised their voice with you. On rare occasion, no. All the time? Yes.

Yes, a short term affair or ONS is far more forgivable than years of deception. But again, that's just me. Everyone is entitled to their dealbreakers. I wouldn't stay with a financially irresponsible spouse, or one that was deep into Alex Jones conspiracy theories. To each their own.

agree. The ONS/mistake issue is much easier to move past than an emotional attachment. For me, it was both - physical + emotional to the point where my ex spouse told me she was in love with AP. After about a year of trying to reconcile, I was done - empty. After the initial ONS, I was on board to forgive/work on our marriage but when the continued emotional attachment kept on, it was too hard to overcome.

Anonymous wrote:Trust is paramount, to me. If I can't trust someone, what's the point? I think those who stay for the kids are kidding themselves. The kids ALWAYS know when their home life is off.

+100

I have a number of friends whose parents divorced and the years they "tried to make it work for the kids" were the worst. The divorce was a relief to the kids who saw two unhappy people who were not in love. You want your parents to be in love and emulate that later on, not see them suffer.

My parents stayed together and my siblings and I wish they would've gotten a divorce. Most people are really bad at hiding how they really feel.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How can someone watch their significant other burn down their relationship for a fling or affair with a new person and...be ok with it and stay?

What goes through their mind?

I think it's tricky.

I think a lot of cheaters are narcissists and use gaslighting over the years and it becomes almost like emotional abuse so that their spouse loses confidence or becomes depressed. They can be manipulative and charming and when caught act genuinely upset and tell all kinds of lies and have a 'honeymoon phase'. They beg, they cry, they swear it will never happen again and it was not love. It was a big mistake and they are so, so, so, so sorry. They do therapy and show that they are serious. Some times they are, sometimes they aren't and they do it again.
Now- it's the second time that would be a deal breaker for good.

I think some women without their own financial income are worried about losing a lifestyle. They don't want to lose $.

Then, some do not want to have to give up some holidays and weekends with their kids. They feel like they have more control over their children than what a partner's future partner's/boyfriends/girlfriends could inflict.

I think the abusive aspect of cheating is under-recognized. I went to a therapist after the cheating. The therapist did not see or validate the abuse. I think people really underestimate the societal pressure to stay together. All the “self-help” at the time focused on finding out what was wrong in the marriage that caused the affair. This is a blame-the-victim approach. Infidelity also very much follows the cycle of domestic abuse - tension, release, making up period, etc.

It wasn’t until I read a copy of The Battered Woman by Lenore Walker (a classic on physical domestic abuse) that I recognized the similarities. Now some in the counseling industry recognize repeated infidelity can cause complex PTSD in the victim spouse.

In my case, I did not leave immediately because I had very little kids, and I was in grad school. DH also told lies about the context of the cheating that were very believable and it took me a significant period of time to unravel what was really happening. Once I knew, I needed time to plan for my stability. As I did that it became clear that then DH was not only cheating but mentally unwell and drinking and using prescription drugs inappropriately. So, I took more time to exit in a way that I could have full physical custody. From the outside it looks like I “stayed” after the cheating, but most of that “staying” time was unravelling the real facts about what was going on and plotting my escape.

It’s always interesting to me how many people want to look at that time and pathologize me as “insecure” or “depressed”. The truth is that the cultural, economic and legal aspects of society are currently constructed to keep women and their kids together with men regardless of the quality of that relationship - intact family units are prized above all else. That makes it very difficult to get out.

Trust is paramount, to me. If I can't trust someone, what's the point? I think those who stay for the kids are kidding themselves. The kids ALWAYS know when their home life is off.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There's no one size fits all solution. It really depends on the people involved and the situation.

Dh has been a great partner for the past 20+ years. If he had a mid life crisis and cheated. But, he was remorseful and clearly willing to do what it takes to stay in the marriage, then infidelity would be forgivable.

With that being said, if dh had been a bad partner for 20 years, then I wouldn't stay. In that case, infidelity is really the straw that broke the camel's back.

There are absolutely worst things than sexual infidelity like abuse, addiction, and financial infidelity. If dh ever raised a hand to me, was an addict, or did something irresponsible with our money/hid finances from me, I would walk away in a heartbeat. These things have a much more direct and harmful impact on my quality of life.

Would it matter if it was a 2 or 3 year affair vs just a fling with a stranger on a work trip?

I think the how, why, what, length of time, etc. matters greatly personally so my decisions would be different depending on the type of transgression.

Of course that would matter. It's like asking if you would leave your spouse if they raised their voice with you. On rare occasion, no. All the time? Yes.

Yes, a short term affair or ONS is far more forgivable than years of deception. But again, that's just me. Everyone is entitled to their dealbreakers. I wouldn't stay with a financially irresponsible spouse, or one that was deep into Alex Jones conspiracy theories. To each their own.