jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Open up, and just keep social distancing and wearing a mask. Done.

It is unrealistic to shut down everything for 18 months. That vaccine Billy Boy is funding might be worse than the virus itself because it won’t have time to be tested.

But people have to get back to work. The backlash of shutting down the country will lead to deaths due to food supplies and shortages, transportation, people who have health issues will die and people with mental issues will end up killing themselves.

You can’t lock someone in their house with a business that they are using that to survive away from them. This will lead to devastating economic impacts and lead to more deaths. But this is a virus, not a death sentence. Anytime you step out your house, it’s a risk. We can’t live our lives in fear.

If you open up without proper testing, you are guaranteed to have a resurgence of disease. If you are comfortable getting infected, don't let me stop you. Feel free infect yourself and your family. Just don't expect others to take that risk on your behalf.

The tests themselves aren’t even 100% accurate, though. That’s the biggest problem now. Reports of false negatives are happening quite often.

I think it’s simple politics from Trump’s perspective. He’s being clobbered in the polls by an arguably kind of out of it center-right Democrat. Biden has him in full panic mode. “Opening up,” as Trump perceives it, is thus his only (slim) path to reelection. He is putting that before the real dangers of opening way too soon.

Anonymous wrote:Open up, and just keep social distancing and wearing a mask. Done.

It is unrealistic to shut down everything for 18 months. That vaccine Billy Boy is funding might be worse than the virus itself because it won’t have time to be tested.

But people have to get back to work. The backlash of shutting down the country will lead to deaths due to food supplies and shortages, transportation, people who have health issues will die and people with mental issues will end up killing themselves.

You can’t lock someone in their house with a business that they are using that to survive away from them. This will lead to devastating economic impacts and lead to more deaths. But this is a virus, not a death sentence. Anytime you step out your house, it’s a risk. We can’t live our lives in fear.

If you open up without proper testing, you are guaranteed to have a resurgence of disease. If you are comfortable getting infected, don't let me stop you. Feel free infect yourself and your family. Just don't expect others to take that risk on your behalf.

Are the factory workers required to wear masks?

Anonymous wrote:I appreciate your opinion, and I'm sure it is a fairly well informed one. I think we would agree, however, that you are not a subject matter expert? I certainly am not. So I look to the subject matter experts and right now I believe that to be Dr. Fauci. When he says it is safe to open then I believe it is safe to open. Who are you looking to that will give you information that you will accept?

I also appreciate Fauci's opinion though it is important to remember that he is under tremendous political pressure. The same with Dr. Birx who I think has made clear compromises for political expediency. There are other subject matter experts to whom I pay attention such as Scott Gottlieb and Andy Slavitt. But, most of all I am influenced by the news. As long as there are 600-person outbreaks in factories, it is pretty obvious that it is not safe for work.

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What's wrong with wearing masks?

Masks are an important element of but not complete PPE solution. Wearing a mask does not make you immune to infection.

Nothing but a sealed bubble makes us immune to infection, but most of us can do more to boost our own immunity levels. Unfortunely I'm not seeing much discussion about that. That's what most Americans don't seem to understand about many foreign cultures. Personal responsibility is paramount.

I tend to think that DMV feds will be the guinea pigs. Trump will tell them to pull themselves up their bootstraps and get back to their offices some time in May. OPM and sycophantic managers will say, “yes, sir.” That will obviously involve Metro. He’s the same guy who yelled, really weirdly about one option of “Riding it out, like a cowboy.” Unionized feds can’t strike.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let's stay shutdown for the next 18 months.

This. Anyone who can afford to stay home, should stay home. Done.

But the “ruling” class are the ones who can afford to stay home, no? For others, would you suggest, as Sen. Josh Hadley - R (MO) has done, that the government pay up to 80 percent of workers’ wages? I support that.

^ Hawley. Excuse me.

Open up, and just keep social distancing and wearing a mask. Done.

It is unrealistic to shut down everything for 18 months. That vaccine Billy Boy is funding might be worse than the virus itself because it won’t have time to be tested.

But people have to get back to work. The backlash of shutting down the country will lead to deaths due to food supplies and shortages, transportation, people who have health issues will die and people with mental issues will end up killing themselves.

You can’t lock someone in their house with a business that they are using that to survive away from them. This will lead to devastating economic impacts and lead to more deaths. But this is a virus, not a death sentence. Anytime you step out your house, it’s a risk. We can’t live our lives in fear.

Anonymous wrote:What's wrong with wearing masks?

Masks are an important element of but not complete PPE solution. Wearing a mask does not make you immune to infection.

Anonymous wrote:What's wrong with wearing masks?

Do cotton masks cut out of old t-shirts work? Sad that that’s what it’s come down to in this country with its “affluence”, and endless babble about STEM.

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pretty certain that at least some people who aren’t part of the “ruling” class would benefit if some businesses opened up if it was deemed safe by reasonable governors of their respective states.

They will benefit right up to the point that they are infected with coronavirus.

I’m but sure I follow. The better recommendation, then, will be to remain “shut down” nationwide until a reliable vaccine and universal testing are in place? That would seem to dovetail with Dr. Emanuel’s suggestion that the “shut down” needs up to 18 more months.

Yes, the shutdown should continue until there is sufficient testing in place (or a vaccine though that is not likely to happen first). A properly organized testing program would prioritize essential workers -- not only healthcare workers but other such as South Dakota meat packers -- so that they can do their jobs. Then, as the program grows, start to include less essential workers. Leave those of us go can telecommute to the very end.

I appreciate your opinion, and I'm sure it is a fairly well informed one. I think we would agree, however, that you are not a subject matter expert? I certainly am not. So I look to the subject matter experts and right now I believe that to be Dr. Fauci. When he says it is safe to open then I believe it is safe to open. Who are you looking to that will give you information that you will accept?

The longer the virus persists the more we realize a higher percentage are asymptomatic and the less lethal the virus is. This is becoming increasingly clear as time goes on. The high risk categories have not changed, they remain predominately the elderly with certain categories of preexisting health problems, as well as some younger people with preexisting health problems. For the rest of society, the virus is not lethal. For the vast majority, it results in no more than mild flu symptoms. A shutdown approach that treated a healthy 30 year old person with no health problems the same as an 80 year old person with advanced heart disease or diabetes was only to buy some time at the beginning but cannot work for much longer.

The sensible course of event is to quarantine the nursing homes and other communities of high-risk residents, and younger people who know they fall into the high risk categories and their families should be given assistance to continue quarantining themselves, from both employers, schools and government. Testing should be first and foremost focused on the support staff of the nursing homes and hospitals. It seems as if much of the lethal increase in deaths is directly tied to outbreaks in nursing homes rather than the population at large. Testing the population at large is meaningless as it only works if you test everyone every day.

People will need to assume more personal responsibility regarding handling the virus rather than having it imposed on them by the governments. If it means you cannot see your high risk grandmother for a year, so be it. It's unfortunate, but in this age of social media and technology we can still keep close contact with family members without seeing them in person.

Flattening the curve was not initially sold as a method to prevent people from getting the virus. It was to prevent too many people from getting the virus all at once. Most of us will still get the virus one way or another. Herd immunity is still the most likely outcome, rather than an unproven virus.

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Jeff look at South Korea and Germany

They aren't testing everyone

I disagree with you politically but you are a smart guy

Quit spreading fear/falsehoods

Both of those countries have much higher per capita testing than the US does. Germany tests 1 in 90 people. South Korea tests 1 in 119. The US is only testing 1 in every 273.

Without proper testing, we have to assume that everyone is potentially infected. Only testing can allow us to have more targeted quarantining.

Cmon man so you a need test before you can leave your house?!?!?! Again SK and Germany don't have that. They do contact tracing and test based on that.

I'm thinking the numbers will look better with universal masking. And also advances on the medical side as far as protocols and medications. With both, we may be able to start resume some normal activities.