Anonymous
03/29/2020 21:54
Subject: Re:Intubated ventilator in Coronavirus patients. Soultion or problem. Why not to use unintubated?
Anonymous wrote:Who does operate this, a patient? A first responder? A nurse? ..
National guard.
Anonymous
03/29/2020 21:54
Subject: Intubated ventilator in Coronavirus patients. Soultion or problem. Why not to use unintubated?
OP, do you seriously believe that docs and nurses want to intubate patients? That they will skip less invasive procedures and go right for the more difficult procedure that places all of them at greater risk in the hopes of saving the patient? What color is the sky in your world?
Anonymous
03/29/2020 21:52
Subject: Re:Intubated ventilator in Coronavirus patients. Soultion or problem. Why not to use unintubated?
Anonymous wrote:Questions to the experts: what is this, how does it work?
What is that gizmo that Cuomo is holding? Please tell us what is this thingy?
New York orders thousands of manually operated pump ventilators as coronavirus cases surge: ‘This is the alternative’
That seems pointless. You need someone to stand by the bed and pump the bag. These are only used for very short term use by paramedics transporting to the ER or in the ER or during a code.
Anonymous
03/29/2020 21:51
Subject: Intubated ventilator in Coronavirus patients. Soultion or problem. Why not to use unintubated?
21:48 again.
Patients are put into a coma for intubation.
They are also put on their front, to ease the lungs.
It takes special training and constant 24/7 vigilance to take care of such fragile, touch and go, patients.
This is hard core.
Patients are put into a coma for intubation.
They are also put on their front, to ease the lungs.
It takes special training and constant 24/7 vigilance to take care of such fragile, touch and go, patients.
This is hard core.
Anonymous
03/29/2020 21:50
Subject: Re:Intubated ventilator in Coronavirus patients. Soultion or problem. Why not to use unintubated?
Who does operate this, a patient? A first responder? A nurse? ..
Anonymous
03/29/2020 21:50
Subject: Re:Intubated ventilator in Coronavirus patients. Soultion or problem. Why not to use unintubated?
Questions to the experts: what is this, how does it work?
What is that gizmo that Cuomo is holding? Please tell us what is this thingy?
New York orders thousands of manually operated pump ventilators as coronavirus cases surge: ‘This is the alternative’
What is that gizmo that Cuomo is holding? Please tell us what is this thingy?
New York orders thousands of manually operated pump ventilators as coronavirus cases surge: ‘This is the alternative’
Anonymous
03/29/2020 21:48
Subject: Intubated ventilator in Coronavirus patients. Soultion or problem. Why not to use unintubated?
***Intubation is used when the alternative is death.***
Yes, intubation is injurious. My husband is a doctor and hates it.
Again, it’s used when there is no other choice, when less invasive oxygenation is not working. It’s also why very old or very fragile patients are seldom intubated - their chances of recovery are slim.
Anonymous
03/29/2020 21:47
Subject: Intubated ventilator in Coronavirus patients. Soultion or problem. Why not to use unintubated?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I am going with doctors tried everything and what you are suggesting led to death.
The question:
Intubated ventilator in Coronavirus patients. Soultion or problem. Why not to use unintubated?
was just that, for people like you to voice our concerns and to help us all to understand if there are other options, risk and all. Don't you like a meaningful discussion where everyone can learn something?
This isn’t meaningful. It’s stupid to think that some random people on a chat board know better than the experts. Hubris.
Anonymous
03/29/2020 21:45
Subject: Intubated ventilator in Coronavirus patients. Soultion or problem. Why not to use unintubated?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:The videos from Italian hospitals showed many people with clear balloon type equipment over their heads. it was some form of non intubated pressurized ventilation. I have never seen those here but maybe we have them?
We don't, they are not FDA approved here, although we do have other forms of NIV that can be used for patients who are not the most severe. But it he most severe situations, there needs to be more precise control of pressures and of the airway than either a helmet or a mask can provide, so they need to intubate.
Interesting, thanks. They seemed to be using them for cases that needed more than oxygen or a mask but less than a ventilator. Do we have noninvasive mechanical options similar to the helmet?
I LOVE the idea, maybe we can have the FDA approve them here. so much cheaper and easier so it seems then a machine. Who knows.. lots of red tape went, so maybe this can get approved too.
You do realize that those helmets, or the masks that we use int he US, are attached to the same exact ventilator that people who are intubated are attached to right? It's not a helmet or a machine, it's a helmet or a mask or endotracheal tube, or a trach tube as a means to interact with the same machine.
And no, they aren't cheaper than an ET tube.
I guess what we are wondering here is not the machine that provides the oxygen and pump it aka ventilator but how it ends or better yet.. how is it "introduced" into a person. The helmets do not seems
to be intubated. If they were what would be the purpose? It seems that the people have some sort of free flowing masks. And perhaps he helmets protect the workers from the virus leaching from their open masks? So that thing would work as a buffering space, having some outlet to suck up the used oxygen or something?
Anonymous
03/29/2020 21:44
Subject: Intubated ventilator in Coronavirus patients. Soultion or problem. Why not to use unintubated?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:The videos from Italian hospitals showed many people with clear balloon type equipment over their heads. it was some form of non intubated pressurized ventilation. I have never seen those here but maybe we have them?
We don't, they are not FDA approved here, although we do have other forms of NIV that can be used for patients who are not the most severe. But it he most severe situations, there needs to be more precise control of pressures and of the airway than either a helmet or a mask can provide, so they need to intubate.
Interesting, thanks. They seemed to be using them for cases that needed more than oxygen or a mask but less than a ventilator. Do we have noninvasive mechanical options similar to the helmet?
In the US NIV (non invasive ventilation) is generally delivered with a mask. But it's different from someone who is just getting oxygen through a mask. It works basically the same way as the helmet, by increasing the pressure from the outside. It works for some patients and not for others. It is being widely used with COVID patients, but the sickest patients still need to be intubated.
One issue with NIV is that many of the masks that are in use are vented, which exposes everyone in the room to aerosolized lung contents. If you read the recent article about hospitals repurposing scuba masks, they are using them for NIV, when they have run out of masks that aren't vented.
I heard they are using CPAP machines and ASV machines. Is CPAP similar what you are describing with the pressurized mask? The helmets seem to reduce the vented aspect - why are they not approved here?
You don't know how CPAP works, and you are weighing in on having solved the damage from intubated ventilation but using an alternative .. but you don't know how it works, just that you must be right about it?
What on earth?
I think you are confusing me with another poster. there are multiple posters on this thread.
Anonymous
03/29/2020 21:42
Subject: Intubated ventilator in Coronavirus patients. Soultion or problem. Why not to use unintubated?
Anonymous wrote:I am going with doctors tried everything and what you are suggesting led to death.
The question:
Intubated ventilator in Coronavirus patients. Soultion or problem. Why not to use unintubated?
was just that, for people like you to voice our concerns and to help us all to understand if there are other options, risk and all. Don't you like a meaningful discussion where everyone can learn something?
Anonymous
03/29/2020 21:41
Subject: Intubated ventilator in Coronavirus patients. Soultion or problem. Why not to use unintubated?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:The videos from Italian hospitals showed many people with clear balloon type equipment over their heads. it was some form of non intubated pressurized ventilation. I have never seen those here but maybe we have them?
We don't, they are not FDA approved here, although we do have other forms of NIV that can be used for patients who are not the most severe. But it he most severe situations, there needs to be more precise control of pressures and of the airway than either a helmet or a mask can provide, so they need to intubate.
Interesting, thanks. They seemed to be using them for cases that needed more than oxygen or a mask but less than a ventilator. Do we have noninvasive mechanical options similar to the helmet?
I LOVE the idea, maybe we can have the FDA approve them here. so much cheaper and easier so it seems then a machine. Who knows.. lots of red tape went, so maybe this can get approved too.
You do realize that those helmets, or the masks that we use int he US, are attached to the same exact ventilator that people who are intubated are attached to right? It's not a helmet or a machine, it's a helmet or a mask or endotracheal tube, or a trach tube as a means to interact with the same machine.
And no, they aren't cheaper than an ET tube.
Anonymous
03/29/2020 21:41
Subject: Intubated ventilator in Coronavirus patients. Soultion or problem. Why not to use unintubated?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:The videos from Italian hospitals showed many people with clear balloon type equipment over their heads. it was some form of non intubated pressurized ventilation. I have never seen those here but maybe we have them?
We don't, they are not FDA approved here, although we do have other forms of NIV that can be used for patients who are not the most severe. But it he most severe situations, there needs to be more precise control of pressures and of the airway than either a helmet or a mask can provide, so they need to intubate.
Interesting, thanks. They seemed to be using them for cases that needed more than oxygen or a mask but less than a ventilator. Do we have noninvasive mechanical options similar to the helmet?
Is this what you were talking about?
Anyone knows what is this? Do we have this in the US?? Any details?
Anonymous
03/29/2020 21:40
Subject: Re:Intubated ventilator in Coronavirus patients. Soultion or problem. Why not to use unintubated?
Anonymous
03/29/2020 21:38
Subject: Re:Intubated ventilator in Coronavirus patients. Soultion or problem. Why not to use unintubated?
I like them sitting upwards as well, this is helpful. Easier to breath.