Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thanks for your observations OP. I have a junior in HS. Hoping I can manage expectations. It seems incredibly tough out there.

And never apply anywhere ED. That just telegraphs a willingness to pay more than you would otherwise have to pay.

If your family income is such that there's no way in hell you'll get financial aid, this advice does not apply.

Or if you have run the NPC and filled out the forms honestly, which is something every family should do, it also does not apply.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thanks for your observations OP. I have a junior in HS. Hoping I can manage expectations. It seems incredibly tough out there.

And never apply anywhere ED. That just telegraphs a willingness to pay more than you would otherwise have to pay.

If your family income is such that there's no way in hell you'll get financial aid, this advice does not apply.

Anonymous wrote:Oldest child is a senior in public HS. Was accepted ED to a top 10 school. Almost all college acceptances are now out. Here are some takeaways I learned watching my own kid + students from her HS go through the process. Thought this may help parents of rising seniors. Others are free to chime in and to agree/disagree. Not sure if my insights apply to private school students although there is obviously some overlap.

1) This is obviously an emotional process but kids who approached it strategically rather than emotionally did better. Don’t get overly attached to one school without good reason.
2) Top grades + varsity sport + excellent test scores are not enough for ivy admission. You need something else such as legacy, famous grandparents, minority or URM, chief editor of school newspaper, girls applying for engineering, etc.
3) Don’t waste your early application on Harvard or Stanford unless you are legacy or recruited athlete or have won an exceptional prize
4) Yale seems to love legacies
5) ED gives you a better shot than EA
6) Work really hard on your essays and get multiple adults to read them over and give you feedback. Does everyone get the point you are trying to make? If not, revise or try again. For top 25 schools (except large publics) your essays need to be extremely high quality
7) Avoid writing about race and diversity if you are white
8) Look beyond the popular schools that everyone is applying to at your HS
9) Don’t apply ED to the top school that 5-10 other kids from your HS are applying to. Get excited about a different school
10) There are probably at least 1-2 other kids at your school who have an almost identical profile to you - same interests, same classes, same teachers for recommendations, similar test scores. Make sure you are not all applying to the same schools. I saw a few best friends who were very similar apply to all the same colleges for the same major and it did not work out well.
11) Kids who decided to apply ED to terrific schools that were within their reach but a step down from higher rated schools that are a gamble for anyone mostly had good success
12) Kids who were obsessed with brand names and focused on top 10 when they should have paid more attention to schools one tier down were left disappointed with end result.
13) Not worth it to keep taking SAT or ACT in search of perfection. Once you hit 75% level, you are fine. Focus on other stuff
14) No point in submitting applications 1-3 months early. Complete them early if you must but then let them sit and look at essays again in a few weeks. Do you still love them?
15) Rigorous course load is very important. Do the best you can

Good luck!

1) This is obviously an emotional process but kids who approached it strategically rather than emotionally did better. Don’t get overly attached to one school without good reason.
+1
2) Top grades + varsity sport + excellent test scores are not enough for ivy admission. You need something else such as legacy, famous grandparents, minority or URM, chief editor of school newspaper, girls applying for engineering, etc.
+1
3) Don’t waste your early application on Harvard or Stanford unless you are legacy or recruited athlete or have won an exceptional prize
+1
4) Yale seems to love legacies
don't care if they do, not my type
5) ED gives you a better shot than EA
+1
6) Work really hard on your essays and get multiple adults to read them over and give you feedback. Does everyone get the point you are trying to make? If not, revise or try again. For top 25 schools (except large publics) your essays need to be extremely high quality
nope, that's not the right process for essays; first and foremost, tell some compelling story, your set of values or strong feelings should really shine through: are you very ambitious and work until you drop dead? did you have some near-death experience? did you travel the world and have some original insights about those how people and places? do you have an idea how to make the world a better place?
7) Avoid writing about race and diversity if you are white
idk, see above, if you did travel the world and can say how you'd change things around for some disadvantaged groups, that may be ok
8) Look beyond the popular schools that everyone is applying to at your HS
+1 yeah, did you even know about Little Ivies? I didn't!
9) Don’t apply ED to the top school that 5-10 other kids from your HS are applying to. Get excited about a different school.
easier done that said, everyone wants HYP
10) There are probably at least 1-2 other kids at your school who have an almost identical profile to you - same interests, same classes, same teachers for recommendations, similar test scores. Make sure you are not all applying to the same schools. I saw a few best friends who were very similar apply to all the same colleges for the same major and it did not work out well.
don't sweat it, if you have good essays, good recs, some butt-kicking story, you're better than them
11) Kids who decided to apply ED to terrific schools that were within their reach but a step down from higher rated schools that are a gamble for anyone mostly had good success.
+100
12) Kids who were obsessed with brand names and focused on top 10 when they should have paid more attention to schools one tier down were left disappointed with end result.
+100
13) Not worth it to keep taking SAT or ACT in search of perfection. Once you hit 75% level, you are fine. Focus on other stuff.
+if you are >1480 or > 34 after 3-4 sittings, you may be ok ED if full pay ... otherwise, do prep and get >1500 from the first sitting
14) No point in submitting applications 1-3 months early. Complete them early if you must but then let them sit and look at essays again in a few weeks. Do you still love them?
whatev, but don't hurry 'em through, of course
15) Rigorous course load is very important. Do the best you can.
+100 yes, for STEM, AP Calc BC & AP Physics in junior year

I'll add, the recs are very important and you should work for them; some people may think highly of themselves but that may not be how they are seen by other people, just being smart will not get you perfect score in the 'personable' box; for example, I know I ruffle feathers with my direct opinions but if I need recs from some people I'll take care they don't see that part of me too often;

Thanks OP for some great insight and advice. I would add reiterate that while ED is a good way to get in, for many "elite" name schools it is close to impossible unless you are a recruited athlete, big donor family, famous, or an URM. Do not be to disappointed or insulted when you get deferred and hear of other less academically qualified students getting in. Several of the deferred students get in during RD.

For many of you, this will be the first time you get a taste of life being unfair. Anticipate and acknowledge it when it happens so you can move on.

Also, in general, only the first page of a DCUM thread is helpful. After that, things deteriorate.

Anonymous wrote:And never apply anywhere ED.

Unless, of course, it is to a competitive school your kid actually wants to be admitted to.

Anonymous wrote:That just telegraphs a willingness to pay more than you would otherwise have to pay.

That, and the checkbox asking for financial aid, and the extensive financial aid forms, and the net price calculator you can run before you apply, and the fact you can get out of ED if the NPC calculation does not come back in the offer.

So much stupid and false information in this forum. People don't act on what you read here. Get a few books, speak to some admissions professionals. People are flat out wrong or lying here.

Anonymous wrote:Thanks for your observations OP. I have a junior in HS. Hoping I can manage expectations. It seems incredibly tough out there.

Managing expectations is key. Don't get caught up in the status-chasing rat race. Quality is illusory, and almost all colleges are doing a poor job at educating students for a life of enrichment -- a life liberated from the humdrum and the mundane. But that's what a LAC education was intended to do: liberate the individual from the dreary aspects of life, so as to appreciate the higher things -- and to consider things beyond the demands of our mere animal instincts.

So here's what I'd recommend. Consult the USNWR ranking scheme for liberal arts colleges, and focus on those ranked between about 30 and 100 -- because they'll all fight over your kid, and discount their sticker price in order to land him. He'll get an education that is qualitatively about the same as the supposedly elite LACs, at about half the cost (or at about the cost of tuition, room and board at your flagship state university). And the college experience will be virtually the same as at the stuffy, elite colleges -- except your kid will be surrounded by students that come from more diverse backgrounds economically. And there will be less anxiety.

Just be sure to visit all the schools your kid is interested in attending. You'd be surprised how much you can get a feel for a place by visiting it and talking to professors and students. Then, just to be sure, visit the finalists on your kids list again before making a decision.

And never apply anywhere ED. That just telegraphs a willingness to pay more than you would otherwise have to pay.

In the end, you'll save a bunch of money. And maybe your kid can get through college without assuming any debt.

The goal should be for your kid to get through college well-adjusted (and, if possible, unencumbered financially). If you can help your kid do that, he will spend the rest of his life recalling his college years fondly. And he'll appreciate your wisdom.

I understand you meant top 25%-Yes -total waste

Anonymous wrote:Thank you for the info OP. I have a question. I am an alum of a top 20. DS’s meet their 25th percentile. We had ruled the school out, but we are starting to think he should apply ED and take a chance. We are full pay. WWYD? I’m only hesitating because if he fails to get in, he will have wasted his ED/full pay opportunity?

Wasted? Have you not been paying attention the last few years? 25%ile? - total waste

Anonymous wrote:Thank you for the info OP. I have a question. I am an alum of a top 20. DS’s meet their 25th percentile. We had ruled the school out, but we are starting to think he should apply ED and take a chance. We are full pay. WWYD? I’m only hesitating because if he fails to get in, he will have wasted his ED/full pay opportunity?

25% and legacy, unless you are a 7 figure donor, I wouldn't burn the ED there.

Thanks for your observations OP. I have a junior in HS. Hoping I can manage expectations. It seems incredibly tough out there.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Except you are incorrect. Many LAC have core requirements.

Can you cite an example? I mean a bona fide example, where all students spend the first two years taking a common set of required courses, before they declare a major.

Bard. All freshmen take a one month intensive humanities and social thought course called Language and Thinking before the start of classes. And another one-month course called Citizen Science in January. On top of that, they all take a two-semester freshman tutorial their first year before declaring a major. To cite but one example.

Yeah, lots of schools have these half-hearted attempts at a common core curriculum, where all students take a class or two together. But a bona fide common core curriculum consists of two years worth of required courses, such as the old common core at the University of Chicago.