15-year law school graduate from a consistently (and still today) top 20 school but not T14. Absolutely would not recommend the level of debt you described for law school. If student could get into a top 5 law school, i might consider that much debt, but the student should be prepared to spend 5 years or so in big law to pay off that much loans and still live frugally. Big law is pretty well a guaranteed option if you go to top 5 but not beyond unless you do very well in law school.

If student really wants to be a lawyer, then suggest going to a well-reputed school where student can get aid or scholarships to make it much less expensive. Maybe $50K max in debt? Do the math on how much the monthly payments are on a $50K student loan or a $100K student loan and what a non big lawyer salary would be.

I came out of law school a long time ago with only about $40K in debt because I got scholarship money, had some help from family, and school was cheaper back then. (P.S. you can negotiate with law schools and they will up their scholarship offers). Got good grades and a job in big law and paid off my loans in 2 years. I am incredibly lucky that I did not have to stay in big law because I absolutely hated it. I know tons of people who had no choice because of their loans and they were/are miserable. And that's if you can even get a job in big law! No idea what that even takes these days, but it's definitely harder now than it used to be.

Anonymous wrote:Is this rational today? I see the average JD graduates with $145K of debt. Does this make sense outside of the the T14 or even for them? Have an undergraduate sophomore considering law school. We can help pay maybe 1/3 of the COA. Help us out all you attorneys on this board. What do you think?

The answer is no. Outside of T14, it is very difficult to get a Big Law job unless the person is in the top 5% of the class. It is a huge gamble. The average legal salary nationwide is under $100k

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Retired Biglaw partner here. If your kid can get into a T14 he'd be fine taking on debt. Virtually anyone who graduates from T14 can get a Biglaw job. Maybe not at Covington or something but it doesn't matter -- they all pay the same and they all pay well.

Outside of T14 I wouldn't risk it. You just can't predict how well you're going to do in law school no matter what your LSAT tells you. And once you're out of the T14, and especially once you're out of the top 20-25, you really do need top grades for the big jobs.

Your son needs to remember, though, that Biglaw sucks. Your colleagues suck, they're boring and self-centered AF, your clients are generally evil and also suck, and your opposing counsel also suck. Basically all you're really doing is helping big companies push around huge sums of money. You rarely go to trial, too risky for shareholders, so you spends years doing all kinds of tedious and meaningless pretrial stuff and then settle. And the hours are terrible and you have no life.

There's a reason they pay so much.

I've never met a lawyer who started in Biglaw and moved on to something else and regretted it. Seriously, not one time. That tells me a whole lot.

Really disagree with the bolded part. I went to UVA law when it was about #10. Not sure what it is now. Half of the class was in "the bottom 50%" and they knew it! The level of depression -- like clinical depression -- as a result of not being on the interview list for firms was not unusual. I was very concerned about some friends. I would agree with the rest of what you wrote, though.

The best path is to spend a couple years out of college working before going back to law school. Then keep debt as low as possible, even if that means going to a slightly lesser school (i.e. a #15-25 school, or whatever school is considered good in the area where you want to live long term.). If you want to live in TN, then go to a lawschool in TN -- but only the best one or two that are known there. Other schools might be higher on the list, but reputation is local, so save $$. If you are looking at a much lower ranked school, then you should definitely not take out more than $20-30K in loans. If you are going to one of the upper ranked schools, then I'd still recommend keeping loans to $75K or less.

Your kid will want to start buying a house and eventually having a family, and saving for his/her kids' education.... you don't want to have $140K in loans dragging you down. That is prison. That's why people are willing to work in big firms (in part), when they hate it --- to pay their way out of debtor's prison. Unfortunately, some of them buy the big house and the fancy car, and then their kids need to go to the right schools, and the atty needs to join the country club in order to bring in business.... and before you know it, those golden handcuffs = a life term.

When you have minimal debt, you have options.

I had $70K debt coming out of lawschool and it was tough. Fortunately, DH was very cool about $$ and we paid off my student loans in 2 yrs using all of my salary to get rid of them before we had kids. It made a huge difference for our family to be debt free (except for a $140K mortgage) before having kids.

You may disagree with me, but the actual data does not. In 2018, 72 percent of UVA law grads got jobs in law firms at a median salary of $190k, while another 17 percent got judicial clerkships which are typically springboards to prestige law jobs. So, combined, you're talking nearly 90 percent.

https://www.law.virginia.edu/career-services/employment-data-recent-graduates

UVA now ranks between 6 and 8, above Duke. A lot has changed

Not really. UVA now 8 and Duke 10. Meaningless distinction.

https://www.usnews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-law-schools/law-rankings

Typical snotty lawyer response. I said UVA "now ranks between six and eight". You went when it was ten and then wined about how half the class was worried about getting jobs. That half isn't that worried anymore since UVA Law is doing so well. Duh.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Retired Biglaw partner here. If your kid can get into a T14 he'd be fine taking on debt. Virtually anyone who graduates from T14 can get a Biglaw job. Maybe not at Covington or something but it doesn't matter -- they all pay the same and they all pay well.

Outside of T14 I wouldn't risk it. You just can't predict how well you're going to do in law school no matter what your LSAT tells you. And once you're out of the T14, and especially once you're out of the top 20-25, you really do need top grades for the big jobs.

Your son needs to remember, though, that Biglaw sucks. Your colleagues suck, they're boring and self-centered AF, your clients are generally evil and also suck, and your opposing counsel also suck. Basically all you're really doing is helping big companies push around huge sums of money. You rarely go to trial, too risky for shareholders, so you spends years doing all kinds of tedious and meaningless pretrial stuff and then settle. And the hours are terrible and you have no life.

There's a reason they pay so much.

I've never met a lawyer who started in Biglaw and moved on to something else and regretted it. Seriously, not one time. That tells me a whole lot.

Really disagree with the bolded part. I went to UVA law when it was about #10. Not sure what it is now. Half of the class was in "the bottom 50%" and they knew it! The level of depression -- like clinical depression -- as a result of not being on the interview list for firms was not unusual. I was very concerned about some friends. I would agree with the rest of what you wrote, though.

The best path is to spend a couple years out of college working before going back to law school. Then keep debt as low as possible, even if that means going to a slightly lesser school (i.e. a #15-25 school, or whatever school is considered good in the area where you want to live long term.). If you want to live in TN, then go to a lawschool in TN -- but only the best one or two that are known there. Other schools might be higher on the list, but reputation is local, so save $$. If you are looking at a much lower ranked school, then you should definitely not take out more than $20-30K in loans. If you are going to one of the upper ranked schools, then I'd still recommend keeping loans to $75K or less.

Your kid will want to start buying a house and eventually having a family, and saving for his/her kids' education.... you don't want to have $140K in loans dragging you down. That is prison. That's why people are willing to work in big firms (in part), when they hate it --- to pay their way out of debtor's prison. Unfortunately, some of them buy the big house and the fancy car, and then their kids need to go to the right schools, and the atty needs to join the country club in order to bring in business.... and before you know it, those golden handcuffs = a life term.

When you have minimal debt, you have options.

I had $70K debt coming out of lawschool and it was tough. Fortunately, DH was very cool about $$ and we paid off my student loans in 2 yrs using all of my salary to get rid of them before we had kids. It made a huge difference for our family to be debt free (except for a $140K mortgage) before having kids.

You may disagree with me, but the actual data does not. In 2018, 72 percent of UVA law grads got jobs in law firms at a median salary of $190k, while another 17 percent got judicial clerkships which are typically springboards to prestige law jobs. So, combined, you're talking nearly 90 percent.

https://www.law.virginia.edu/career-services/employment-data-recent-graduates

UVA now ranks between 6 and 8, above Duke. A lot has changed

Not really. UVA now 8 and Duke 10. Meaningless distinction.

https://www.usnews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-law-schools/law-rankings

Lawyer here. I believe VERY strongly that every law school applicant should be REQUIRED to have at least a summer’s worth — preferably a full year after undergrad — of experience in a legal environment before they’re even allowed to apply to law school. I see waayy too many students go to law school without any real understanding of what the legal professional entails...smart kids who want a stable, professional career but don’t really know how to do that with just their political science/English/history/etc degree. And thus law school becomes the default option. It often does not end well — even if they do find good jobs, they are often insanely miserable.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Retired Biglaw partner here. If your kid can get into a T14 he'd be fine taking on debt. Virtually anyone who graduates from T14 can get a Biglaw job. Maybe not at Covington or something but it doesn't matter -- they all pay the same and they all pay well.

Outside of T14 I wouldn't risk it. You just can't predict how well you're going to do in law school no matter what your LSAT tells you. And once you're out of the T14, and especially once you're out of the top 20-25, you really do need top grades for the big jobs.

Your son needs to remember, though, that Biglaw sucks. Your colleagues suck, they're boring and self-centered AF, your clients are generally evil and also suck, and your opposing counsel also suck. Basically all you're really doing is helping big companies push around huge sums of money. You rarely go to trial, too risky for shareholders, so you spends years doing all kinds of tedious and meaningless pretrial stuff and then settle. And the hours are terrible and you have no life.

There's a reason they pay so much.

I've never met a lawyer who started in Biglaw and moved on to something else and regretted it. Seriously, not one time. That tells me a whole lot.

Really disagree with the bolded part. I went to UVA law when it was about #10. Not sure what it is now. Half of the class was in "the bottom 50%" and they knew it! The level of depression -- like clinical depression -- as a result of not being on the interview list for firms was not unusual. I was very concerned about some friends. I would agree with the rest of what you wrote, though.

The best path is to spend a couple years out of college working before going back to law school. Then keep debt as low as possible, even if that means going to a slightly lesser school (i.e. a #15-25 school, or whatever school is considered good in the area where you want to live long term.). If you want to live in TN, then go to a lawschool in TN -- but only the best one or two that are known there. Other schools might be higher on the list, but reputation is local, so save $$. If you are looking at a much lower ranked school, then you should definitely not take out more than $20-30K in loans. If you are going to one of the upper ranked schools, then I'd still recommend keeping loans to $75K or less.

Your kid will want to start buying a house and eventually having a family, and saving for his/her kids' education.... you don't want to have $140K in loans dragging you down. That is prison. That's why people are willing to work in big firms (in part), when they hate it --- to pay their way out of debtor's prison. Unfortunately, some of them buy the big house and the fancy car, and then their kids need to go to the right schools, and the atty needs to join the country club in order to bring in business.... and before you know it, those golden handcuffs = a life term.

When you have minimal debt, you have options.

I had $70K debt coming out of lawschool and it was tough. Fortunately, DH was very cool about $$ and we paid off my student loans in 2 yrs using all of my salary to get rid of them before we had kids. It made a huge difference for our family to be debt free (except for a $140K mortgage) before having kids.

You may disagree with me, but the actual data does not. In 2018, 72 percent of UVA law grads got jobs in law firms at a median salary of $190k, while another 17 percent got judicial clerkships which are typically springboards to prestige law jobs. So, combined, you're talking nearly 90 percent.

https://www.law.virginia.edu/career-services/employment-data-recent-graduates

Law firms with a median salary of 190 are not big law, lol. That’s the starting salary at big law.

Of course it's the starting salary. It's the employment report for recent graduates. Not a mid career report. Idiot.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Retired Biglaw partner here. If your kid can get into a T14 he'd be fine taking on debt. Virtually anyone who graduates from T14 can get a Biglaw job. Maybe not at Covington or something but it doesn't matter -- they all pay the same and they all pay well.

Outside of T14 I wouldn't risk it. You just can't predict how well you're going to do in law school no matter what your LSAT tells you. And once you're out of the T14, and especially once you're out of the top 20-25, you really do need top grades for the big jobs.

Your son needs to remember, though, that Biglaw sucks. Your colleagues suck, they're boring and self-centered AF, your clients are generally evil and also suck, and your opposing counsel also suck. Basically all you're really doing is helping big companies push around huge sums of money. You rarely go to trial, too risky for shareholders, so you spends years doing all kinds of tedious and meaningless pretrial stuff and then settle. And the hours are terrible and you have no life.

There's a reason they pay so much.

I've never met a lawyer who started in Biglaw and moved on to something else and regretted it. Seriously, not one time. That tells me a whole lot.

Really disagree with the bolded part. I went to UVA law when it was about #10. Not sure what it is now. Half of the class was in "the bottom 50%" and they knew it! The level of depression -- like clinical depression -- as a result of not being on the interview list for firms was not unusual. I was very concerned about some friends. I would agree with the rest of what you wrote, though.

The best path is to spend a couple years out of college working before going back to law school. Then keep debt as low as possible, even if that means going to a slightly lesser school (i.e. a #15-25 school, or whatever school is considered good in the area where you want to live long term.). If you want to live in TN, then go to a lawschool in TN -- but only the best one or two that are known there. Other schools might be higher on the list, but reputation is local, so save $$. If you are looking at a much lower ranked school, then you should definitely not take out more than $20-30K in loans. If you are going to one of the upper ranked schools, then I'd still recommend keeping loans to $75K or less.

Your kid will want to start buying a house and eventually having a family, and saving for his/her kids' education.... you don't want to have $140K in loans dragging you down. That is prison. That's why people are willing to work in big firms (in part), when they hate it --- to pay their way out of debtor's prison. Unfortunately, some of them buy the big house and the fancy car, and then their kids need to go to the right schools, and the atty needs to join the country club in order to bring in business.... and before you know it, those golden handcuffs = a life term.

When you have minimal debt, you have options.

I had $70K debt coming out of lawschool and it was tough. Fortunately, DH was very cool about $$ and we paid off my student loans in 2 yrs using all of my salary to get rid of them before we had kids. It made a huge difference for our family to be debt free (except for a $140K mortgage) before having kids.

You may disagree with me, but the actual data does not. In 2018, 72 percent of UVA law grads got jobs in law firms at a median salary of $190k, while another 17 percent got judicial clerkships which are typically springboards to prestige law jobs. So, combined, you're talking nearly 90 percent.

https://www.law.virginia.edu/career-services/employment-data-recent-graduates

Law firms with a median salary of 190 are not big law, lol. That’s the starting salary at big law.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Retired Biglaw partner here. If your kid can get into a T14 he'd be fine taking on debt. Virtually anyone who graduates from T14 can get a Biglaw job. Maybe not at Covington or something but it doesn't matter -- they all pay the same and they all pay well.

Outside of T14 I wouldn't risk it. You just can't predict how well you're going to do in law school no matter what your LSAT tells you. And once you're out of the T14, and especially once you're out of the top 20-25, you really do need top grades for the big jobs.

Your son needs to remember, though, that Biglaw sucks. Your colleagues suck, they're boring and self-centered AF, your clients are generally evil and also suck, and your opposing counsel also suck. Basically all you're really doing is helping big companies push around huge sums of money. You rarely go to trial, too risky for shareholders, so you spends years doing all kinds of tedious and meaningless pretrial stuff and then settle. And the hours are terrible and you have no life.

There's a reason they pay so much.

I've never met a lawyer who started in Biglaw and moved on to something else and regretted it. Seriously, not one time. That tells me a whole lot.

Really disagree with the bolded part. I went to UVA law when it was about #10. Not sure what it is now. Half of the class was in "the bottom 50%" and they knew it! The level of depression -- like clinical depression -- as a result of not being on the interview list for firms was not unusual. I was very concerned about some friends. I would agree with the rest of what you wrote, though.

The best path is to spend a couple years out of college working before going back to law school. Then keep debt as low as possible, even if that means going to a slightly lesser school (i.e. a #15-25 school, or whatever school is considered good in the area where you want to live long term.). If you want to live in TN, then go to a lawschool in TN -- but only the best one or two that are known there. Other schools might be higher on the list, but reputation is local, so save $$. If you are looking at a much lower ranked school, then you should definitely not take out more than $20-30K in loans. If you are going to one of the upper ranked schools, then I'd still recommend keeping loans to $75K or less.

Your kid will want to start buying a house and eventually having a family, and saving for his/her kids' education.... you don't want to have $140K in loans dragging you down. That is prison. That's why people are willing to work in big firms (in part), when they hate it --- to pay their way out of debtor's prison. Unfortunately, some of them buy the big house and the fancy car, and then their kids need to go to the right schools, and the atty needs to join the country club in order to bring in business.... and before you know it, those golden handcuffs = a life term.

When you have minimal debt, you have options.

I had $70K debt coming out of lawschool and it was tough. Fortunately, DH was very cool about $$ and we paid off my student loans in 2 yrs using all of my salary to get rid of them before we had kids. It made a huge difference for our family to be debt free (except for a $140K mortgage) before having kids.

You may disagree with me, but the actual data does not. In 2018, 72 percent of UVA law grads got jobs in law firms at a median salary of $190k, while another 17 percent got judicial clerkships which are typically springboards to prestige law jobs. So, combined, you're talking nearly 90 percent.

https://www.law.virginia.edu/career-services/employment-data-recent-graduates

UVA now ranks between 6 and 8, above Duke. A lot has changed

Anonymous wrote:I would suggest doing ANYTHING possible to avoid taking on debt. No one can count on getting a BigLaw job and paying it of quickly. I went to a mid-tier law school and graduated at the top of my class in 2009 (yep, great timing). I make a good salary now, but it took 10 years. I will still be paying off loans for the next 8 years. Many, many of my classmates will pay them for 25-30 under IBR with the hope that they will be forgiven if the law remains the same. Full loans at my law school landed you about $250K in debt, not $145K. Because we had to work for free to as a resume builder and couldn't rely on that summer associate job/offer, full loans were necessary for some (not me).

As a frame of reference, my loan + my husband's combined law school loan repayments are $4K/month, and that is the lowest possible. It's double our mortgage.

There are many other paths of course, and maybe taking on loans won't hit him/her as hard. In my experience, it was absolutely crushing for many of my classmates.

You went to a mid tier school. The advice being given here is not to go to law school if you have to go mid tier -- regardless of debt.

I would suggest doing ANYTHING possible to avoid taking on debt. No one can count on getting a BigLaw job and paying it of quickly. I went to a mid-tier law school and graduated at the top of my class in 2009 (yep, great timing). I make a good salary now, but it took 10 years. I will still be paying off loans for the next 8 years. Many, many of my classmates will pay them for 25-30 under IBR with the hope that they will be forgiven if the law remains the same. Full loans at my law school landed you about $250K in debt, not $145K. Because we had to work for free to as a resume builder and couldn't rely on that summer associate job/offer, full loans were necessary for some (not me).

As a frame of reference, my loan + my husband's combined law school loan repayments are $4K/month, and that is the lowest possible. It's double our mortgage.

There are many other paths of course, and maybe taking on loans won't hit him/her as hard. In my experience, it was absolutely crushing for many of my classmates.

Not worth it if have to your DC has take on debt. The recession and use of computers/AI has radically changed the practice of law and there just are not the jobs that there used to be. Counting on going to a tippy top law school and entering Biglaw for 5-7 years to pay off that $150K or more in debt is just not realistic for the vast majority of law school wannabes, no matter how bright and hardworking they are.

The answer is it depends. Does the person want to work BigLaw? Then sure - obviously it'll be fine. Are they dying to be a lawyer, and are willing to put up with having to pay off loans for 20 years in a non-BigLaw job? Then sure, just know what you're getting into.

Are you getting the degree because you don't know what else to do and law seems like a safe path for smart people? RUN LIKE THE WIND

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Retired Biglaw partner here. If your kid can get into a T14 he'd be fine taking on debt. Virtually anyone who graduates from T14 can get a Biglaw job. Maybe not at Covington or something but it doesn't matter -- they all pay the same and they all pay well.

Outside of T14 I wouldn't risk it. You just can't predict how well you're going to do in law school no matter what your LSAT tells you. And once you're out of the T14, and especially once you're out of the top 20-25, you really do need top grades for the big jobs.

Your son needs to remember, though, that Biglaw sucks. Your colleagues suck, they're boring and self-centered AF, your clients are generally evil and also suck, and your opposing counsel also suck. Basically all you're really doing is helping big companies push around huge sums of money. You rarely go to trial, too risky for shareholders, so you spends years doing all kinds of tedious and meaningless pretrial stuff and then settle. And the hours are terrible and you have no life.

There's a reason they pay so much.

I've never met a lawyer who started in Biglaw and moved on to something else and regretted it. Seriously, not one time. That tells me a whole lot.

Really disagree with the bolded part. I went to UVA law when it was about #10. Not sure what it is now. Half of the class was in "the bottom 50%" and they knew it! The level of depression -- like clinical depression -- as a result of not being on the interview list for firms was not unusual. I was very concerned about some friends. I would agree with the rest of what you wrote, though.

The best path is to spend a couple years out of college working before going back to law school. Then keep debt as low as possible, even if that means going to a slightly lesser school (i.e. a #15-25 school, or whatever school is considered good in the area where you want to live long term.). If you want to live in TN, then go to a lawschool in TN -- but only the best one or two that are known there. Other schools might be higher on the list, but reputation is local, so save $$. If you are looking at a much lower ranked school, then you should definitely not take out more than $20-30K in loans. If you are going to one of the upper ranked schools, then I'd still recommend keeping loans to $75K or less.

Your kid will want to start buying a house and eventually having a family, and saving for his/her kids' education.... you don't want to have $140K in loans dragging you down. That is prison. That's why people are willing to work in big firms (in part), when they hate it --- to pay their way out of debtor's prison. Unfortunately, some of them buy the big house and the fancy car, and then their kids need to go to the right schools, and the atty needs to join the country club in order to bring in business.... and before you know it, those golden handcuffs = a life term.

When you have minimal debt, you have options.

I had $70K debt coming out of lawschool and it was tough. Fortunately, DH was very cool about $$ and we paid off my student loans in 2 yrs using all of my salary to get rid of them before we had kids. It made a huge difference for our family to be debt free (except for a $140K mortgage) before having kids.

You may disagree with me, but the actual data does not. In 2018, 72 percent of UVA law grads got jobs in law firms at a median salary of $190k, while another 17 percent got judicial clerkships which are typically springboards to prestige law jobs. So, combined, you're talking nearly 90 percent.

https://www.law.virginia.edu/career-services/employment-data-recent-graduates

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why is there a T14 and not, say, a T15 or T20? Fourteen seems like a weird number.

Because the top 14 have been ranked in the top 14 for the last 20 years. Those ranked 15-25 have experienced changes in their rankings frequently.

There is a big gap between 14 and 15, that's why.

That's what T14 grads like to think. I mean, just ask one.

Yeah, I agree. Georgetown is currently ranked 14, UCLA 15 and Texas 16, followed by USC and Vanderbilt. All of these schools are fine. The next few are good, too -- then you really got trouble.

Anonymous wrote:Retired Biglaw partner here. If your kid can get into a T14 he'd be fine taking on debt. Virtually anyone who graduates from T14 can get a Biglaw job. Maybe not at Covington or something but it doesn't matter -- they all pay the same and they all pay well.

Outside of T14 I wouldn't risk it. You just can't predict how well you're going to do in law school no matter what your LSAT tells you. And once you're out of the T14, and especially once you're out of the top 20-25, you really do need top grades for the big jobs.

Your son needs to remember, though, that Biglaw sucks. Your colleagues suck, they're boring and self-centered AF, your clients are generally evil and also suck, and your opposing counsel also suck. Basically all you're really doing is helping big companies push around huge sums of money. You rarely go to trial, too risky for shareholders, so you spends years doing all kinds of tedious and meaningless pretrial stuff and then settle. And the hours are terrible and you have no life.

There's a reason they pay so much.

I've never met a lawyer who started in Biglaw and moved on to something else and regretted it. Seriously, not one time. That tells me a whole lot.

Really disagree with the bolded part. I went to UVA law when it was about #10. Not sure what it is now. Half of the class was in "the bottom 50%" and they knew it! The level of depression -- like clinical depression -- as a result of not being on the interview list for firms was not unusual. I was very concerned about some friends. I would agree with the rest of what you wrote, though.

The best path is to spend a couple years out of college working before going back to law school. Then keep debt as low as possible, even if that means going to a slightly lesser school (i.e. a #15-25 school, or whatever school is considered good in the area where you want to live long term.). If you want to live in TN, then go to a lawschool in TN -- but only the best one or two that are known there. Other schools might be higher on the list, but reputation is local, so save $$. If you are looking at a much lower ranked school, then you should definitely not take out more than $20-30K in loans. If you are going to one of the upper ranked schools, then I'd still recommend keeping loans to $75K or less.

Your kid will want to start buying a house and eventually having a family, and saving for his/her kids' education.... you don't want to have $140K in loans dragging you down. That is prison. That's why people are willing to work in big firms (in part), when they hate it --- to pay their way out of debtor's prison. Unfortunately, some of them buy the big house and the fancy car, and then their kids need to go to the right schools, and the atty needs to join the country club in order to bring in business.... and before you know it, those golden handcuffs = a life term.

When you have minimal debt, you have options.

I had $70K debt coming out of lawschool and it was tough. Fortunately, DH was very cool about $$ and we paid off my student loans in 2 yrs using all of my salary to get rid of them before we had kids. It made a huge difference for our family to be debt free (except for a $140K mortgage) before having kids.