Anonymous wrote:And yet, despite only taking families who enter a lottery, and having all the advantages you mentioned, and an easier time kicking kids out, the charter schools you mentioned aren't that different in terms of test scores.

White kids do the best at SH, then DCI, then Latin.

Black kids do the best in DCI, then Latin, then SH.

Latino it's SH, Latin, DCI.

At risk it's SH and DCI, with Latin worse.

In all of these, the differences are somewhat negligible. Clearly if you want language immersion DCI makes sense and if you want to avoid Eastern and don't think your kid will make it into a selective DCPS it feels good to be done through 12th grade with Latin (though in that scenario does your kid really need advanced middle school classes?). But test score wise, there's really no argument that your kid will have a significantly stronger middle school cohort at DCI or Latin than SH. Richer? Whiter? yeah. But academically pretty similar.

Hobson and BASIS aren't actually similar academically. Latin maybe, BASIS, no. BASIS offers far more challenging middle school math than DCPS to students who can handle it, and far more science rigor to all students. I sat in on a Hobson 6th grade science class, where I observed that a good many of the students couldn't read or comprehend simple instructions to conduct an experiment. Not the case at BASIS in science classes, far from it. Science isn't, er, tested on the PARCC.

The only language "immersion" at DCI is for Spanish. Without native speakers of French or Chinese, only one-way immersion (students learn the language only from teachers). What a joke.

And yet, despite only taking families who enter a lottery, and having all the advantages you mentioned, and an easier time kicking kids out, the charter schools you mentioned aren't that different in terms of test scores.

White kids do the best at SH, then DCI, then Latin.

Black kids do the best in DCI, then Latin, then SH.

Latino it's SH, Latin, DCI.

At risk it's SH and DCI, with Latin worse.

In all of these, the differences are somewhat negligible. Clearly if you want language immersion DCI makes sense and if you want to avoid Eastern and don't think your kid will make it into a selective DCPS it feels good to be done through 12th grade with Latin (though in that scenario does your kid really need advanced middle school classes?). But test score wise, there's really no argument that your kid will have a significantly stronger middle school cohort at DCI or Latin than SH. Richer? Whiter? yeah. But academically pretty similar.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The main problem isn't figuring it out - it's making it happen.

I'm in-boundary for SH and would enroll my kid for 6th grade there next year IF the school were offering honors classes not only in math and ELA, but in science and social studies.

No great shake-up in the Hill middle school configuration, or anything else, would be needed to offer honors classes in ELA and social studies at SH IN ADDITION TO honors classes in ELA and math. All that's needed is a teeny policy shift that hasn't been made, and, at the rate things are going, probably won't be made in the next decade. DCPS won't permit a full menu of honors classes at any DCPS middle school under any circumstances, period.

The fact is, Hobson has been offering advanced math and ELA for over a decade now, but there are no plans to offer advanced science and social studies. The latter subjects are those of greatest interest to my kid -he works above grade level in both subjects with great enthusiasm. I've toured the school, talked to admins, talked to the science and social studies teachers, and have come away with no confidence that he'd be consistently challenged in any subject at SH. No good, we're going to BASIS, Latin or going private by 6th grade.

There are not advanced or honors social studies or science or ELA classes at BASIS or Latin either.

This statement is seriously disingenuous. BASIS frightens away families whose kids perform below grade level with its pressure cooker environment. I'm not judging BASIS, I'm stating the obvious. BASIS then weeds out students who can't perform at grade level with end-of-the-year exams in every academic subject at the end of 6th grade, and again at the end of 7th grade and 8th grade. Fail one "comp" and risk being forced to repeat the entire school year (with the message being, hit the road, Jack, don't come back). Both BASIS and Washington Latin are in a strong position to offer smaller classes than DCPS middle schools, because the latter can't control the size of their school populations like charters can. Unlike DCPS programs, charters can easily get rid of weak instructors, mainly because their teachers aren't protected by a teachers union. All in all, higher overall performance results.

^^ It isn't significant.

Latin and DCI are not all that. Latin and Deal are the whitest and wealthiest middle schools in the city, which makes people assume the peer groups are higher performing. DCI has diversity going for it and their scores are pretty good.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The main problem isn't figuring it out - it's making it happen.

I'm in-boundary for SH and would enroll my kid for 6th grade there next year IF the school were offering honors classes not only in math and ELA, but in science and social studies.

No great shake-up in the Hill middle school configuration, or anything else, would be needed to offer honors classes in ELA and social studies at SH IN ADDITION TO honors classes in ELA and math. All that's needed is a teeny policy shift that hasn't been made, and, at the rate things are going, probably won't be made in the next decade. DCPS won't permit a full menu of honors classes at any DCPS middle school under any circumstances, period.

The fact is, Hobson has been offering advanced math and ELA for over a decade now, but there are no plans to offer advanced science and social studies. The latter subjects are those of greatest interest to my kid -he works above grade level in both subjects with great enthusiasm. I've toured the school, talked to admins, talked to the science and social studies teachers, and have come away with no confidence that he'd be consistently challenged in any subject at SH. No good, we're going to BASIS, Latin or going private by 6th grade.

There are not advanced or honors social studies or science or ELA classes at BASIS or Latin either.

True - but you have (especially in the case of Basis) a self-selected group of predominantly high-performing kids. So you don't need "honors" classes because the baseline is high. And, at Basis, there is no social promotion - so as the years go by the cohort becomes even more high performing.

THIS, this, and this. If you can’t track then you look at peer groups. It’s obvious which school has one of the highest performing peer groups in the city and it’s Basis. It’s also true Basis could care less about social promotion.

No kids at Basis but I respect the school for adhering to a high academic standard.

As to Latin and DCI for EOTP middle/high school, it’s the same concept - peer groups. Higher performing peer groups that are majority.

Stuart Hobson ELA/Math is 56/24. DCI is 63/42 for middle and Latin is 63/48. Certainly a difference in math, but at SH it's tracked. The difference in ELA doesn't seem too significant.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The main problem isn't figuring it out - it's making it happen.

I'm in-boundary for SH and would enroll my kid for 6th grade there next year IF the school were offering honors classes not only in math and ELA, but in science and social studies.

No great shake-up in the Hill middle school configuration, or anything else, would be needed to offer honors classes in ELA and social studies at SH IN ADDITION TO honors classes in ELA and math. All that's needed is a teeny policy shift that hasn't been made, and, at the rate things are going, probably won't be made in the next decade. DCPS won't permit a full menu of honors classes at any DCPS middle school under any circumstances, period.

The fact is, Hobson has been offering advanced math and ELA for over a decade now, but there are no plans to offer advanced science and social studies. The latter subjects are those of greatest interest to my kid -he works above grade level in both subjects with great enthusiasm. I've toured the school, talked to admins, talked to the science and social studies teachers, and have come away with no confidence that he'd be consistently challenged in any subject at SH. No good, we're going to BASIS, Latin or going private by 6th grade.

There are not advanced or honors social studies or science or ELA classes at BASIS or Latin either.

True - but you have (especially in the case of Basis) a self-selected group of predominantly high-performing kids. So you don't need "honors" classes because the baseline is high. And, at Basis, there is no social promotion - so as the years go by the cohort becomes even more high performing.

THIS, this, and this. If you can’t track then you look at peer groups. It’s obvious which school has one of the highest performing peer groups in the city and it’s Basis. It’s also true Basis could care less about social promotion.

No kids at Basis but I respect the school for adhering to a high academic standard.

As to Latin and DCI for EOTP middle/high school, it’s the same concept - peer groups. Higher performing peer groups that are majority.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The main problem isn't figuring it out - it's making it happen.

I'm in-boundary for SH and would enroll my kid for 6th grade there next year IF the school were offering honors classes not only in math and ELA, but in science and social studies.

No great shake-up in the Hill middle school configuration, or anything else, would be needed to offer honors classes in ELA and social studies at SH IN ADDITION TO honors classes in ELA and math. All that's needed is a teeny policy shift that hasn't been made, and, at the rate things are going, probably won't be made in the next decade. DCPS won't permit a full menu of honors classes at any DCPS middle school under any circumstances, period.

The fact is, Hobson has been offering advanced math and ELA for over a decade now, but there are no plans to offer advanced science and social studies. The latter subjects are those of greatest interest to my kid -he works above grade level in both subjects with great enthusiasm. I've toured the school, talked to admins, talked to the science and social studies teachers, and have come away with no confidence that he'd be consistently challenged in any subject at SH. No good, we're going to BASIS, Latin or going private by 6th grade.

There are not advanced or honors social studies or science or ELA classes at BASIS or Latin either.

True - but you have (especially in the case of Basis) a self-selected group of predominantly high-performing kids. So you don't need "honors" classes because the baseline is high. And, at Basis, there is no social promotion - so as the years go by the cohort becomes even more high performing.

Anonymous wrote:The main problem isn't figuring it out - it's making it happen.

I'm in-boundary for SH and would enroll my kid for 6th grade there next year IF the school were offering honors classes not only in math and ELA, but in science and social studies.

No great shake-up in the Hill middle school configuration, or anything else, would be needed to offer honors classes in ELA and social studies at SH IN ADDITION TO honors classes in ELA and math. All that's needed is a teeny policy shift that hasn't been made, and, at the rate things are going, probably won't be made in the next decade. DCPS won't permit a full menu of honors classes at any DCPS middle school under any circumstances, period.

The fact is, Hobson has been offering advanced math and ELA for over a decade now, but there are no plans to offer advanced science and social studies. The latter subjects are those of greatest interest to my kid -he works above grade level in both subjects with great enthusiasm. I've toured the school, talked to admins, talked to the science and social studies teachers, and have come away with no confidence that he'd be consistently challenged in any subject at SH. No good, we're going to BASIS, Latin or going private by 6th grade.

There are not advanced or honors social studies or science or ELA classes at BASIS or Latin either.

Sort of a collective action problem in the neighborhood, but not entirely.

More honors classes would mean more complaints/cries of racism, entitlement and elitism from parents (read mostly low SES, OOB and AA) whose children can't clear the admissions hurdle = more political headaches for Ward 6 and DCPS leaders.

As long as Ward 6 gentrifiers can't swing elections outside of Ward 6, they're not a political threat in the city.

Total idiocy that honors classes can be offered in English and math at our by-right Hill public middle schools but not in social studies or science. Grrrrrrr.

The main problem isn't figuring it out - it's making it happen.

I'm in-boundary for SH and would enroll my kid for 6th grade there next year IF the school were offering honors classes not only in math and ELA, but in science and social studies.

No great shake-up in the Hill middle school configuration, or anything else, would be needed to offer honors classes in ELA and social studies at SH IN ADDITION TO honors classes in ELA and math. All that's needed is a teeny policy shift that hasn't been made, and, at the rate things are going, probably won't be made in the next decade. DCPS won't permit a full menu of honors classes at any DCPS middle school under any circumstances, period.

The fact is, Hobson has been offering advanced math and ELA for over a decade now, but there are no plans to offer advanced science and social studies. The latter subjects are those of greatest interest to my kid -he works above grade level in both subjects with great enthusiasm. I've toured the school, talked to admins, talked to the science and social studies teachers, and have come away with no confidence that he'd be consistently challenged in any subject at SH. No good, we're going to BASIS, Latin or going private by 6th grade.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I get that new folks are idiots but we have to learn somehow I want everyone to be clamoring for SH MS, EH MS, and Eastern HS while serving all the at risk students here too. I really think it could be amazing! How do we do it?

I cannot think of a single principal, superintendent, mayor, or other educator or politician who has figured that out. So if you do, let the rest of us know, ok?

Why get snarky with someone who admits they don't know how to do it? I think it is ok to have hope. I admit it is not sufficient, but it is necessary, right?

Anonymous wrote:I get that new folks are idiots but we have to learn somehow I want everyone to be clamoring for SH MS, EH MS, and Eastern HS while serving all the at risk students here too. I really think it could be amazing! How do we do it?

I cannot think of a single principal, superintendent, mayor, or other educator or politician who has figured that out. So if you do, let the rest of us know, ok?

I get that new folks are idiots but we have to learn somehow I want everyone to be clamoring for SH MS, EH MS, and Eastern HS while serving all the at risk students here too. I really think it could be amazing! How do we do it?