Anonymous
Post 04/01/2021 12:33     Subject: Least stressful jobs for lawyers
I agree that transactional work is often highly stressful. Yes - Negotiations are all about arguing, and there are as many demands from the in-house clients as they were from the outside ones. And no administrative support at all, usually.
Anonymous
Post 04/01/2021 09:26     Subject: Least stressful jobs for lawyers
Try to get an in house job overseeing litigation matters. I do commercial transactions in-house an it can be very stressful at times, like the end of the quarter when everyone wants to close out their deal.
Anonymous
Post 03/31/2021 23:58     Subject: Least stressful jobs for lawyers
Anonymous wrote:I applied for a government job years ago — a mid level position at an agency where I had over a decade of directly relevant experience at a well respected firm, plus appellate clerkship and a HYS law degree. Not even an interview! They gave the job to someone that was not as well qualified. Given the challenges of the USA Jobs system, I’m not even positive the right people ever saw my application. I got an automated acknowledgement and nothing further. I was conflicted about leaving my firm so had not wanted to network about the job. Not sure what the moral of the story is but—don’t do what I did!


Don't try to exit the firm by applying to a single job? Ok, got it. Appreciate the sage advice.
Anonymous
Post 03/31/2021 21:13     Subject: Re:Least stressful jobs for lawyers
Anonymous wrote:Rulemaking in a smaller government agency.


Rulemaking is awful soul sucking work. Plus they are a litigator, so enforcement is probably a better fit.
Anonymous
Post 03/31/2021 20:23     Subject: Least stressful jobs for lawyers
I applied for a government job years ago — a mid level position at an agency where I had over a decade of directly relevant experience at a well respected firm, plus appellate clerkship and a HYS law degree. Not even an interview! They gave the job to someone that was not as well qualified. Given the challenges of the USA Jobs system, I’m not even positive the right people ever saw my application. I got an automated acknowledgement and nothing further. I was conflicted about leaving my firm so had not wanted to network about the job. Not sure what the moral of the story is but—don’t do what I did!
Anonymous
Post 03/31/2021 19:51     Subject: Least stressful jobs for lawyers
Advocacy to not become a lawyer. Most I know hate their jobs, or are terrible people if they don’t.
Anonymous
Post 03/31/2021 11:28     Subject: Least stressful jobs for lawyers
I was a GS-14 in the OGC of a large agency and it was actually really stressful and the worst job I’ve ever had. Examples:

-I had no flexibility or independence. Everything had to go through my supervisor, and he was really not competent as an attorney or a manager or a human being. You can’t leave for lunch, unless you can somehow make it 30 min. You can’t leave work 30-60 min early on a Friday after a long busy week.
-we had to document our days, accounting for 8 hours of case time per day, and weren’t allowed to ever have less than that (unless on scheduled leave), and there was no option for admin time. The process of portraying my day took several hours per day. We also had to log every email we sent or received in multiple different places. Half my job was data entry because of this
-zero admin support whatsoever. Scheduling a trip and getting the reimbursement done took me approx 40 hours of work each time. It was so painful I basically stopped traveling, even to fun conferences I may have otherwise attended. The admins are incredibly incompetent and hostile, and they don’t do any work. I had to make my own shipping labels and requests for UPS.
-the workloads were massive. Absolutely massive. I would get 150 emails per day and had to acknowledge and log them all. It was so mind numbing. I would listen to podcasts all day long to help because the work was so mindless
-prepping your annual review takes a week. A freaking WEEK. Mine was always a report of 8-10 pages, single spaced, describing everything I did over the year. I had to include exhibits and case numbers.
-I could go on. It was a nightmare


This is one of the most depressing posts I've ever read, describing a soul-sucking job like moving one pile of dirt to another location. It is the kind of job where you wake up in the morning and say, "You know, I think I'd rather be dead than go to this job."

And I thought my 30-minute prep for annual review and documenting my "horn tooting" triumphs was a tedious drain. When I do my annual review accomplishments this year, I will remember this post and take heart that I have it pretty good compared to others. I'm not a lawyer by the way but have to do this burocratic stuff as well.

Now I understand when I read, "And Bob, fed up with the grind, took a job as a park ranger thus giving the corporate world a big middle finger."

Anonymous
Post 03/30/2021 23:20     Subject: Re:Least stressful jobs for lawyers
I know several lawyers who became law clerks/assistants. It won't work if you have an ego, but they all love being able to say "see ya!" to the lawyers at 5:00.
Anonymous
Post 03/30/2021 22:00     Subject: Least stressful jobs for lawyers
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Almost any other legal job will be less stress— in house, regulatory/compliance counseling etc.but PP is right that finding a nonsupervisory job in a government agency is probably the best option.


I was a GS-14 in the OGC of a large agency and it was actually really stressful and the worst job I’ve ever had. Examples:

-I had no flexibility or independence. Everything had to go through my supervisor, and he was really not competent as an attorney or a manager or a human being. You can’t leave for lunch, unless you can somehow make it 30 min. You can’t leave work 30-60 min early on a Friday after a long busy week.
-we had to document our days, accounting for 8 hours of case time per day, and weren’t allowed to ever have less than that (unless on scheduled leave), and there was no option for admin time. The process of portraying my day took several hours per day. We also had to log every email we sent or received in multiple different places. Half my job was data entry because of this
-zero admin support whatsoever. Scheduling a trip and getting the reimbursement done took me approx 40 hours of work each time. It was so painful I basically stopped traveling, even to fun conferences I may have otherwise attended. The admins are incredibly incompetent and hostile, and they don’t do any work. I had to make my own shipping labels and requests for UPS.
-the workloads were massive. Absolutely massive. I would get 150 emails per day and had to acknowledge and log them all. It was so mind numbing. I would listen to podcasts all day long to help because the work was so mindless
-prepping your annual review takes a week. A freaking WEEK. Mine was always a report of 8-10 pages, single spaced, describing everything I did over the year. I had to include exhibits and case numbers.
-I could go on. It was a nightmare



Wanna give a hint of your agency so others can avoid it? Please!!
Anonymous
Post 03/30/2021 21:50     Subject: Least stressful jobs for lawyers
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Almost any other legal job will be less stress— in house, regulatory/compliance counseling etc.but PP is right that finding a nonsupervisory job in a government agency is probably the best option.


I was a GS-14 in the OGC of a large agency and it was actually really stressful and the worst job I’ve ever had. Examples:

-I had no flexibility or independence. Everything had to go through my supervisor, and he was really not competent as an attorney or a manager or a human being. You can’t leave for lunch, unless you can somehow make it 30 min. You can’t leave work 30-60 min early on a Friday after a long busy week.
-we had to document our days, accounting for 8 hours of case time per day, and weren’t allowed to ever have less than that (unless on scheduled leave), and there was no option for admin time. The process of portraying my day took several hours per day. We also had to log every email we sent or received in multiple different places. Half my job was data entry because of this
-zero admin support whatsoever. Scheduling a trip and getting the reimbursement done took me approx 40 hours of work each time. It was so painful I basically stopped traveling, even to fun conferences I may have otherwise attended. The admins are incredibly incompetent and hostile, and they don’t do any work. I had to make my own shipping labels and requests for UPS.
-the workloads were massive. Absolutely massive. I would get 150 emails per day and had to acknowledge and log them all. It was so mind numbing. I would listen to podcasts all day long to help because the work was so mindless
-prepping your annual review takes a week. A freaking WEEK. Mine was always a report of 8-10 pages, single spaced, describing everything I did over the year. I had to include exhibits and case numbers.
-I could go on. It was a nightmare


My job at a federal agency has literally nothing in common with the one you had.


Mine either, other than the incompetent admins. Attorneys can and did get away with doing absolutely nothing.
Anonymous
Post 03/30/2021 21:47     Subject: Least stressful jobs for lawyers
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:In house, transactional. Do you really need to be told this?


I found transactional work to be highly stressful. Negotiations are all about arguing, and there are as many demands from the in-house clients as they were from the outside ones.


+1


+2. Transactional lawyers are the ones working all day and night with no predictability. Deals come when they come, closings happen when they happen, and it’s always a fire drill emergency each time. At least with litigation, there is a schedule set for the most part you can plan around.
Anonymous
Post 03/30/2021 21:42     Subject: Least stressful jobs for lawyers
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Almost any other legal job will be less stress— in house, regulatory/compliance counseling etc.but PP is right that finding a nonsupervisory job in a government agency is probably the best option.


I was a GS-14 in the OGC of a large agency and it was actually really stressful and the worst job I’ve ever had. Examples:

-I had no flexibility or independence. Everything had to go through my supervisor, and he was really not competent as an attorney or a manager or a human being. You can’t leave for lunch, unless you can somehow make it 30 min. You can’t leave work 30-60 min early on a Friday after a long busy week.
-we had to document our days, accounting for 8 hours of case time per day, and weren’t allowed to ever have less than that (unless on scheduled leave), and there was no option for admin time. The process of portraying my day took several hours per day. We also had to log every email we sent or received in multiple different places. Half my job was data entry because of this
-zero admin support whatsoever. Scheduling a trip and getting the reimbursement done took me approx 40 hours of work each time. It was so painful I basically stopped traveling, even to fun conferences I may have otherwise attended. The admins are incredibly incompetent and hostile, and they don’t do any work. I had to make my own shipping labels and requests for UPS.
-the workloads were massive. Absolutely massive. I would get 150 emails per day and had to acknowledge and log them all. It was so mind numbing. I would listen to podcasts all day long to help because the work was so mindless
-prepping your annual review takes a week. A freaking WEEK. Mine was always a report of 8-10 pages, single spaced, describing everything I did over the year. I had to include exhibits and case numbers.
-I could go on. It was a nightmare


My job at a federal agency has literally nothing in common with the one you had.
Anonymous
Post 03/30/2021 21:36     Subject: Least stressful jobs for lawyers
Anonymous wrote:Almost any other legal job will be less stress— in house, regulatory/compliance counseling etc.but PP is right that finding a nonsupervisory job in a government agency is probably the best option.


I was a GS-14 in the OGC of a large agency and it was actually really stressful and the worst job I’ve ever had. Examples:

-I had no flexibility or independence. Everything had to go through my supervisor, and he was really not competent as an attorney or a manager or a human being. You can’t leave for lunch, unless you can somehow make it 30 min. You can’t leave work 30-60 min early on a Friday after a long busy week.
-we had to document our days, accounting for 8 hours of case time per day, and weren’t allowed to ever have less than that (unless on scheduled leave), and there was no option for admin time. The process of portraying my day took several hours per day. We also had to log every email we sent or received in multiple different places. Half my job was data entry because of this
-zero admin support whatsoever. Scheduling a trip and getting the reimbursement done took me approx 40 hours of work each time. It was so painful I basically stopped traveling, even to fun conferences I may have otherwise attended. The admins are incredibly incompetent and hostile, and they don’t do any work. I had to make my own shipping labels and requests for UPS.
-the workloads were massive. Absolutely massive. I would get 150 emails per day and had to acknowledge and log them all. It was so mind numbing. I would listen to podcasts all day long to help because the work was so mindless
-prepping your annual review takes a week. A freaking WEEK. Mine was always a report of 8-10 pages, single spaced, describing everything I did over the year. I had to include exhibits and case numbers.
-I could go on. It was a nightmare
Anonymous
Post 03/30/2021 21:25     Subject: Least stressful jobs for lawyers
Inspector general work
Anonymous
Post 03/30/2021 20:55     Subject: Re:Least stressful jobs for lawyers
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Within BIGLAW itself, I'd have to say tax. I work with a lot of these guys and they're pretty chill for the most part. More than some wicked-smart as well!


YMMV. The lawyers doing corporate tax at V50 are billing 2600-3000. My closest law school friend is one. I enjoy my 1800 hours for $400k while he does 3000 for $750k.


There are corporate lawyers who bill that much because deals just bill constantly but IME it’s very hard for most tax lawyers to bill that much because it’s more advisory/counseling.


2600-3000 would be very, very high for a tax attorney at my V25. That’s more than what most star associates on deal teams in the marquee groups at the firm are billing.