Anonymous
Post 01/18/2020 15:15     Subject: What are middle school magnet admissions based on?
How does this theory (that CES kids are at a disadvantage vs others) apply to kids at schools that house a CES but who are not part of it? My “non-CES” kid takes 5/6 math with many of the kids in the CES. He was accepted to TPMS. Does this argument suggest that he got a place because he *wasn’t* in the CES? He isn’t in the CES not because he didn’t qualify (I’m sure he would have) but because he joined in 4th after decisions had been made.
Anonymous
Post 01/18/2020 15:00     Subject: What are middle school magnet admissions based on?
You're thinking about it wrong.

It's not that the CES kid gets dinged. It's that the home school kid gets a boost.

Anonymous
Post 01/18/2020 12:18     Subject: Re:What are middle school magnet admissions based on?
I've known parents with twins, particularly one who is in a CES and one who is not in a CES. The one that went to the homeschool (not in a CES) was admitted to the MS magnet but the CES twin got an outright rejection. The CES kid had higher scores than his sibling. Given that this was the case, I do think the committee tries their best to ensure elementary school representation is there. So not to take away from the non-CES kid that was admitted as I am sure he is qualified as well, but the CES kids do get dinged.
Anonymous
Post 01/18/2020 12:11     Subject: What are middle school magnet admissions based on?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I wouldn't be surprised if there is a CES flag in the data they are given on each student or if it just becomes really easy to guess in the full committee review because of the higher concentration of high scores.

If you're seeing 50-70 very high scores in one school you can probably bet it's a CES.


PP who asked if they know about CES status. My DC attends a school with a regional CES, but DC is not in the CES. I have no beef with the outcome, I’m just wondering if they knew that.


FWIW, I've had a kid in the CES and one not in a CES. The report card looks different. So just by the virtue, the committee would know who came from a CES and who did not.
Anonymous
Post 01/18/2020 11:35     Subject: What are middle school magnet admissions based on?
Anonymous wrote:I wouldn't be surprised if there is a CES flag in the data they are given on each student or if it just becomes really easy to guess in the full committee review because of the higher concentration of high scores.

If you're seeing 50-70 very high scores in one school you can probably bet it's a CES.


PP who asked if they know about CES status. My DC attends a school with a regional CES, but DC is not in the CES. I have no beef with the outcome, I’m just wondering if they knew that.
Anonymous
Post 01/18/2020 11:04     Subject: What are middle school magnet admissions based on?
I wouldn't be surprised if there is a CES flag in the data they are given on each student or if it just becomes really easy to guess in the full committee review because of the higher concentration of high scores.

If you're seeing 50-70 very high scores in one school you can probably bet it's a CES.
Anonymous
Post 01/18/2020 11:02     Subject: What are middle school magnet admissions based on?
I don't know how they group students when they initially distribute them to the committee members, whether it's done by school or SES group or completely randomly. But they do not start with a grid.

It's computerized and each committee member is given a set of students to rate. Totally guessing on the numbers but if there are about 20 members and each one is paired with another each person looks at about 50 students to start.

Let's assume the pile they get is completely random which I think is more fair. In the initial pass they are looking at everyone individually. I do not believe there is any grid at this point.

By the time they get to the full committee review I think the ES and MS matter and it would make sense to have a grid or list. The ES to make sure there's representation throughout the 80 schools in the catchment area. The MS for cohort.
Anonymous
Post 01/18/2020 10:51     Subject: What are middle school magnet admissions based on?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
They use a code for the school. They don't know what school but it's easy to guess from the scores and how the kids are banded. You'll see a bunch of kids with similar scores and similar percentiles. Tons of high scores. High SES band. Basically no or few kids who are FARMS. No one ESOL possibly. Easy to guess Cold Spring, Clearspring, Chevy Chase.


Do they know whether your kid is in CES if they go to a school with a local or regional CES?


Yes, they know your kid was in CES and they're only interested in the SES of their home MS not the home ES.


I do not think this is true on either count, definitely not on the bolded.

- From the FAQ - "The socioeconomic status of elementary schools was used to determine the locally normed score on the CogAT (MCPS Percentiles). "
- There is little way for them to know a student is in CES with the information they have. They are mostly looking at test scores on a grid. I think similar schools feeding to the same MS are grouped together and the students aren't looked at from one school at a time-- that would not be efficient or productive
Anonymous
Post 01/18/2020 10:43     Subject: What are middle school magnet admissions based on?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:What is with the bitter SES obsession from W-cluster parents here? You can't have it both ways! If better magnet changes are SO IMPORTANT to you and you are so well educated on this, you could have moved to a lower SES school or the TPES/PBES/TPMS/Blair pyramid in 3rd. But you didn't.




For all the times I've seen folks on this board suggest that I'm a negligent parent for not forcing my kids to share a closet/bedroom in a one-bedroom apartment in order to live in a W-feeder, I really needed this.

That particular knife cuts both ways now that attending an economically integrated school is a bonus for CES and middle school admissions.


Good for you! Not saying you need to attend a "bad" school by any means, but provided your child is happy and learning and in an environment where that continues to be possible, you don't need to have the best of the best facilities/room parents/fanciest valentines/play dates at 6-bedroom craftsmans. You just need to do what's best for you and that looks very different for everyone. For us, it's been living in a slightly lower COL area (than Bethesda) but within the TPMS boundary, which has almost certainly let our child slide in to a few magnets...pretty sure that wouldn't have happened if we attended a W-feeder. We knew this may be a benefit and are forever grateful for it.
Anonymous
Post 01/18/2020 10:19     Subject: What are middle school magnet admissions based on?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
They use a code for the school. They don't know what school but it's easy to guess from the scores and how the kids are banded. You'll see a bunch of kids with similar scores and similar percentiles. Tons of high scores. High SES band. Basically no or few kids who are FARMS. No one ESOL possibly. Easy to guess Cold Spring, Clearspring, Chevy Chase.


Do they know whether your kid is in CES if they go to a school with a local or regional CES?


Yes, they know your kid was in CES and they're only interested in the SES of their home MS not the home ES.

I think someone higher up said they used (home?) ES for SES but used the middle school for peer cohort.
I don't think they have said what exactly they use to determine peer cohort. I would think it should be the raw scores, nationally norms without accounting for SES. But who knows?
Anonymous
Post 01/18/2020 09:04     Subject: What are middle school magnet admissions based on?
Anonymous wrote:What is with the bitter SES obsession from W-cluster parents here? You can't have it both ways! If better magnet changes are SO IMPORTANT to you and you are so well educated on this, you could have moved to a lower SES school or the TPES/PBES/TPMS/Blair pyramid in 3rd. But you didn't.




For all the times I've seen folks on this board suggest that I'm a negligent parent for not forcing my kids to share a closet/bedroom in a one-bedroom apartment in order to live in a W-feeder, I really needed this.

That particular knife cuts both ways now that attending an economically integrated school is a bonus for CES and middle school admissions.
Anonymous
Post 01/18/2020 08:51     Subject: What are middle school magnet admissions based on?
What is with the bitter SES obsession from W-cluster parents here? You can't have it both ways! If better magnet changes are SO IMPORTANT to you and you are so well educated on this, you could have moved to a lower SES school or the TPES/PBES/TPMS/Blair pyramid in 3rd. But you didn't.
Anonymous
Post 01/18/2020 07:55     Subject: What are middle school magnet admissions based on?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
They use a code for the school. They don't know what school but it's easy to guess from the scores and how the kids are banded. You'll see a bunch of kids with similar scores and similar percentiles. Tons of high scores. High SES band. Basically no or few kids who are FARMS. No one ESOL possibly. Easy to guess Cold Spring, Clearspring, Chevy Chase.


Do they know whether your kid is in CES if they go to a school with a local or regional CES?


Yes, they know your kid was in CES and they're only interested in the SES of their home MS not the home ES.
Anonymous
Post 01/17/2020 22:24     Subject: What are middle school magnet admissions based on?
Anonymous wrote:
They use a code for the school. They don't know what school but it's easy to guess from the scores and how the kids are banded. You'll see a bunch of kids with similar scores and similar percentiles. Tons of high scores. High SES band. Basically no or few kids who are FARMS. No one ESOL possibly. Easy to guess Cold Spring, Clearspring, Chevy Chase.


Do they know whether your kid is in CES if they go to a school with a local or regional CES?
Anonymous
Post 01/17/2020 17:54     Subject: What are middle school magnet admissions based on?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:It seems like this year they try to recruit equal number of students from every elementary schools. It’s easier to get in from local schools than from CES.






Yes - For advanced learners, the probability of getting admitted to MS magnets seems to be better if they stay in their home ES instead of CES.

Statistically speaking, none of the changes should disproportionately affect CES students, for any given home middle school. But that has not been the case. For example, I know a few parents whose kids got into MS magnets from non-CES schools; they were happy of course, but were also wondering how, since their friends from CES with better scores and going to the same home MS did not get in. The home middle schools (NBMS/Cabin John) were considered to have a peer cohort. We are talking about kids who have the same home ES and home MS, and same SES, no IEP, etc. This was the first year of implementation, when almost nobody was admitted initially from Barnsley and Cold Spring. (I think something similar happened last year too.)

If there was any doubt that this process is a crapshoot, here was the clincher: That year (first year of the new admissions process), there was a meeting at Carver (in spring, after the results were announced) where the MCPS official explained how they have eliminated subjective measures (such as recs.) and made the process objective.

Having an objective process is a double edged sword - it becomes very easy to see through the charade.


This is a great example of using old and anecdotal data to make an invalid, current point. Quit trying to make yourself feel better and others bad by calling it a crapshoot. MoCo has made very clear what it is trying to do. You may not like it, and maybe your kid was disadvantaged, but that doesn't make it a charade or crapshoot.


Np. I think the other PP's post was very thoughtful and we are seeing the same thing this year. Kids at CES with higher scores getting waitlisted while the two kids from home school got in with significantly lower scores. Making on judgment on whether this is good or bad but these are the facts. It does look like they tried to take a few from each school and limit the number from the CES.
'

The process is name and school blind. The selection committee doesn't know what scool the students are from and doesn't know if they are in a CES or not. That being said, I'm pretty sure they use the FARMS rate of the ES that the student attends to figure the MCPS percentile, so the CES kids are grouped with other CES kids. Not sure in a process that is school blind how they ensure representation from every school.

"The process for selection is race-neutral, name and school blind."


They use a code for the school. They don't know what school but it's easy to guess from the scores and how the kids are banded. You'll see a bunch of kids with similar scores and similar percentiles. Tons of high scores. High SES band. Basically no or few kids who are FARMS. No one ESOL possibly. Easy to guess Cold Spring, Clearspring, Chevy Chase.